So lets get this out there to start, I an a total Apple FANBOI !!
There it’s said.
I have access to Apples full blown lossless library and want to make the most of this by connecting “it” to my HiFi system.
Initial research suggests a wired connection ( ethernet?) from my iMac to a DAC is the way to go.
Hit a brick wall at this point.
STW massive please help with some suggestions.
The feed into the system is a Linn Kolektor pre amp.
the sound that comes out the mac is good, I don't think you need an external DAC. No doubt others will disagree. But sound has been excellent out any mac I've ever had.
Mind you, for playback purposes I reckon lossless "hi res" is snake oil anyhow, recording it's a different story mind but there's different things going on there.
If you want a decent DAC for not a lot of money the Topping E30 is truly brilliant. Really very very good and around £140
I run the model up from that (D50s) but in a hifi that runs to around £12k and it replaced a DAC that cost over £2k. It isn't outclassed by the rest of my system
usual questions:
budget?
what's the rest of the system?
I'm running a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 for my Windows laptop (USB), MacBook (toslink from 3.5mm headphone socket) and CD player. From their factory outlet on Ebay. It was £129, came as new and I am delighted with it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234196887475?hash=item368738e7b3:g:KsIAAOSwsiNhSMFE
I use it to stream Tidal HiFi from the MBP most of the time at 44kHz.
Honestly, I’d be very surprised if you could hear any significant difference between Lossless and 320Kb files ripped from a CD. I know I can’t.
Current system is various sources into a Linn Kolektor pre amp.
This feeds four Rotel RB-850 power amps all running as mono blocs.
Two mono blocs per speaker. These are KEF iQ90s
Currently the iMac is connected the pre amp via an ethernet cable to a Apple Airport Express in turn RCA connections to the pre amp
Budget? will £300 do it?
Will it do what?
Ultimately, a DAC turns your digital input into an output that analogue speakers can reproduce. Prior to that it's not music, it's data, 1s are 1s and 0s are 0s. You don't get a title bar in a more vivid colour of green when running Excel off an SSD. The farther you can preserve that digital signal down the chain before having to do a DAC, the better off you'll be.
Shoving it over a brace of Phono connections, eh, that was shit twenty years ago. Do you have any means of making a digital connection between source and destination?
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
If you want something for less than a ton, try Audioquest Dragonfly or Cyrus Soundkey.
If you want a real cheapo then Venture Electronics are selling the Avani and Abigail USB dacs for about a tenner. Their Monk earbuds get good write ups and I've just got a couple of Abigails for use on my USB-C phone and they sound decent.
peteimpreza
Full Member
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
just buy a 3.5mm jack to phono cable. Fiver, job jobbed.
@breatheasy not looking for cheap , wanting to get the best out of the lossless digital source
@seosamh77 that’s how an Airport Express connects anyway so ………….. your point is?
Bell wire FTW!
RCA connections to the pre amp
Not sure if it helps at all but I think Airport express has an optical out in the 3.5mm port.
Honestly, I’d be very surprised if you could hear any significant difference between Lossless and 320Kb files ripped from a CD.
Once one gets above 320kb things get less bass-y (there is noticeably less cymbal splash at 320kb). This is dependent on the CD drive used to rip the CD though.
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
Sorry if I appeared blunt, I didn't mean to offend.
not looking for cheap , wanting to get the best out of the lossless digital source
And that's what I suggested, though (hopefully) obviously I didn't mean "speakers" as the destination. Rather, the later in the stages that you can do DAC the better if 'quality' is your primary concern. Whilst you're in the digital realm, what goes in is what comes out. As soon as you convert to analogue all bets are off. The answer to your question is "step 1: throw that phono cable in the bin".
Does your pre-amp not have optical input? https://www.amazon.co.uk/TOSlink-Fibre-Digital-Optical-Gold/dp/B008N15ON6
This is dependent on the CD drive used to rip the CD though.
Nonsense, unless your PC was built in the 1990s.
How many times do I have to write this? Music on a CD is data not audio. A 1 on a CD is exactly the same as a 1 on your hard drive. Exactly. A CD is not vinyl, there are no 0.5s here. A cheap CD drive won't result in inferior audio reproduction, the data is either intact or it isn't. Ever had a bad DAB reception, or a poor satellite TV signal? As soon as it drops beyond the ability of ECC to keep a coherent data stream together you don't get noise and interference like you would with traditional TV or AM/FM radio, you get a brief squelch and then complete silence.
Any audible variation from a ripped CD compared to the original disc will be as a result of transcoding or subsequent encoding such as mp3 compression. Or of course, playing it back through different equipment. Bog all to do with the CD-ROM drive.
And in any case as CZ - one of our resident audiophiles - says, I too would be astonished if you could reliably tell the difference between 320 and lossless. You can spend all the money you like on expensive hardware, but much beyond the age of about 40 the kit is increasingly less likely to be your bottleneck.
Hah, I've just noticed that the optical cable I linked to back there is gold plated. Oil those snakes sir, oil them!
Not got the best "ears" due to some industrial deafness but as mentioned above the little Cyrus sound key is frankly ridiculous value for 70 quid and you can take it with you to plug headphones in.
Hi OP - thoroughly recommend you spend some time on John Darko's youtube channel for some informative, useful advice: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnHDarko
Esp. this discussion on Apple Lossless:
Is a rabbit hole, enjoy your time down there!
The cheapest Khadas Toneboard is amazing for the money: https://www.khadas.com/tone1
I have this and a Dragonfly Red.
Khadas better for sound into hifi. Dragonfly better for simplicity / portability.
I have a Topping D30 and a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic.
Both work well for me, can't tell them apart TBH.
I use an AudioEngine D1 connected to my laptop feeding a Marantz 2238b connected to some big ol Cerwin Vega's. I do have a Hidisz S9 Pro too which also sounds fabulous compared to the standard 3.5mm headphone socket to the sane equipment.
You'll probs find generally a DAC will connect via usb rather than Ethernet.
There's heaps out there from 50 quid to silly money.
Ifi, Hidisz, Topping, Shanling, Schiit, Cambridge etc etc
John Darko's youtube channel is great. But also makes you wanna buy more kit!
And in any case as CZ – one of our resident audiophiles – says, I too would be astonished if you could reliably tell the difference between 320 and lossless.
Strangely yes I can and in the car too (car has a very nice set-up compared to standard and the difference is there). Bear in mind I did not attend many loud music events in my 20's and 30's and religiously wore ear-defenders with 20dbA attenuation in my noisy workplace. My hearing though degraded is in much better shape than a lot of people my age.
I would suggest a DAC that supports asynchronous-USB. This allows the DAC to supply a master clock for the data transfer and in theory should produce less jitter and more accurate reception of the signal and lead to better sound.
Look at offerings from brands such as iFI, Dragonfly and Cambridge Audio. They have a good reputation for value for money and good sound at the budget end.
Ideally a Chord Mojo would be what I recommend but I think this might be a bit outside your budget.
The new iFi Zen dac v2 is supposed to be good, usb only though.
If have just bought one of these as all in one amp/ receiver and just bluetooth Apple Lossless from phone straight to it....
https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-rn602-blk.html
peteimpreza
Full Member@seosamh77 that’s how an Airport Express connects anyway so ………….. your point is?
you're over thinking this.
Bluetooth isn't necessarily up to lossless datarates......
"We will deliver music using lossless audio compression to your iPhone, iPad, Mac and Apple TV. Lossless audio will play back normally on Bluetooth speakers and headphones. However, Bluetooth connections don't support lossless audio."
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212183
Strangely yes I can
In a double-blind test? I don't believe you. Grab a couple of friends and try it.
The best way to connect your iMac to a DAC is via USB assuming your DAC has an USB input. Your Mac will enable the USB to output a digital signal. There is some useful insight on why USB is the best choice for a digital out in this case here but in short it is because you want the DAC to do the reclocking rather than the Mac, as undoubtedly the DAC's reclocker will be better than that in the Mac.
You are effectively looking to use your Mac as a streamer; treaming is very useful for exploring new music and I've discovered a ton of new material in the last year as a result of this, but I have to say that if you value sound quality as well as choice (and it, ahem, sounds like you do given that you're running biamped mono blocs!) then there are much better streaming services than Apple Music.
The best is Qobuz, since they offer everything at least at full CD quality (44.1khz 16 bit) and quite a lot at resolutions higher than this. 192/44 is routinely available and the occassional DSD files crop up as well (though your DAC might not be able to handle this).
One thing I would highly recommend is Roon if you've not already discovered this. It is effectively a piece of software that curates your music, whether that be locally stored (and BTW locally stored still sounds noticeably better than streamed); or streamned. It sits between you and all those sources and acts like a very effective window onto your music world. It's either subscription based or outright purchase and is easily one of the best things to happen to music listening.
As for file sizes etc, it is entirely right that a bit perfect rip is a bit perfect rip and the CDROM drive makes no difference. dBPoweramp is a perfect tool to rip bitperfect copies of your CD archive onto a hard drive (I have a 4TB SSD in my music server for this purpose). What is entirely down to personal taste and hearing discretion is resolution of file. I can very easily hear the difference between, for example, 44/16 and 192/44; lower than 44/16 is something I would never bother with but then I am a bit of an audiophilliac.
As per the above suggestion - please to god do not watch any Darko on YouTube. The guy is an idiot, a rich sponsored idiot but and idiot nonetheless. He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks ever spouted on matters concerning the digital domain.
He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks ever spouted on matters concerning the digital domain.
I've never paid much attention to him; what kind of things is he saying to make you say this?
I’m not claiming to know anything about the subject but on you tube the Cheapaudio man cracks me up every time. I came across him when looking for reviews of the Q Acoustics 3020i and that review remains one of my favourite reviews of anything ever on you tube
”audio should never cost more than a bust of William Shatner in a material of your choice”
For headphone listening I use a Meridian Explorer (USB) DAC with Audirvana. The quality is great and you can use AU plugins with Audirvana to compensate for things like dynamic range compression. Audirvana also let’s you use an existing iTunes library if you have one (as long as tracks aren’t DRM protected). My files are all flac though, rather than alac.
He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks
Hiya.
I can't listen to loud music at home because I'm in a tower block with thin walls and floors. I have some very bassy, interesting Edifier speakers but turn the bass knob down most of the time, and limit volume. At work I simply can't pollute my coworkers with my music whilst they're watching Chinese soap operas on their laptops/phones, or taking a nap. So, good headphones and a portable DAC connected by USB to get the best out of it. And i have to say that there are only a few discussion boards I trust for accurate reviews of equipment, put into context of user, price, and value for money. One of those is the Head-Fi forum.
Takstar Pro 82 headphones and a Fiio BTR3K is cost effective for me. A Fiio BTR5 if you want to pay double the price of the BTR3k for 15-20% better sounding music.
Currently using an iFI Micro DSD (not black label), from Tidal and Qobuz. Feeds some Philips Fidelio X2HR (total bargain these btw-under appreciated headphone) and when not headphones it feeds an old Cyrus 8 and Fyne F501's
Likely to get into a dCS Bartók next year which will be a significant step up. I should qualify this and say that I worked in hifi in the past and will be unlikely to have set ups like I used to. Cause kids.
"15-20% better sounding music". Genuine question, is this based on a measurement or perceptual? Just curious what the technical differences are that yield this (Freq response/thd/transient response/noise floor/???)
I've just added a Topping D50S to my system.
It's fantastic. A real up lift for my 23 year old Marantz CDP and my network streamer. Am I an audiophile if I use a Marantz CD63 KI Signature as a transport? 😁
That 63KI Sig was one of the most musical machines ever made.
Indeed it was ojom but DAC technology has advanced significantly since 1997. The KI Sig has a single NPC DAC chip.
@AdamT some of the users on Head-Fi really test the gear out with industry equipment. There's a lot of engineers having fun with their hobby. For us, the end user, it means authoritive voices helping us a darned sight better than amazon reviews
Totally. I mean for the time it was on sale it was a cracker for the money.
The best DAC I've heard is the dCS Vivaldi. Something else.