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I am sure that it is defending her in some way but how is this likely to pan out in the longer run?
Well, I presume the idea is that they'll reduce the restrictions gradually and see what happens to the number of cases.
Vaccinating all the elderly will protect them which is good news. It'll also make the daily death figures much more palatable. My concern is that it won't do anything for the 40-70 year olds who wouldn't qualify for the vaccine but will still need ITU care if /when they get ill. We may see a death rate that appears to be coming down but the hospitals (especially ITUs) are still swamped. A very significant proportion of the deaths is currently those over 80 who often don't even get admitted to hospital.
I don't think we can get back to 'normal' until the whole population is vaccinated (or at least whatever the magic number is for population immunity (75%?).
As soon as vaccinations are done for all 9 categories then I think it should be opened up.
Categories 1-9 cover 90%+ of people who end up in hospital/dead. The healthy under 50s will just spread it around amongst themselves with a MUCH smaller impact than we have seen over the last 10 months.
Health workers get it to help prevent spreading it others particularly the vulnerable who they will be in contact with. Thought that was obvious.
Well it would be obvious if it reduced transmission, however from everything ive read no evidence of that. That said you are right that it makes sense to do it just in case that is the case.
Lady friend of mine has had covid twice now, front line nhs, has worked in covid wards. Second time she got it put her in hospital
Still debating whether to get vaccination as she'd heard some bad things on internet about it..nuts
oh did I forget to mention she is a senior manager in the local NHS trust
Careful with your assumptions about this. I am a senior manager for Social Care and work nearly 100% at home. I'm also fit and healthy so would not look like an obvious candidate to get it now. However we are dealing with COVID in nearly all of our services and I need to go in to support staff who are at crisis point. I am also the backup in the event that we simply run out of enough front line staff, I will work in the service to make up numbers. It may well be that this NHS manager is in a similar position.
At what point do we decide that enough people are vaccinated to go outside and mix as normal?
When this gets back down to something approaching zero.
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there’s a risk that a large pool of infection in single dose vaccinated people could be an ideal opportunity for further mutation
I dont see why single/double dose changes that Greybeard?
@dantsw13 I have no expertise in this area but read about it as a possibility. It made sense to me by comparison with the rule about antibiotics, that you must finish the course because putting pressure on the pathogens while not wiping them all out is an ideal environment for a mutation to become dominant.
As soon as vaccinations are done for all 9 categories then I think it should be opened up.
Categories 1-9 cover 90%+ of people who end up in hospital/dead. The healthy under 50s will just spread it around amongst themselves with a MUCH smaller impact than we have seen over the last 10 months.
I'm going to share this article here to demonstrate how bad that idea is
Young people being shafted by covid
Is there a point where vaccination becomes problematic after the initial 12 weeks when suddenly those you've vaccinated once are now supposed to be vaccinated again. At that juncture, presumably unless you can ramp up vaccination levels, you rapidly lose the capacity to vaccinate the unvaccinated for the next 12 weeks, because your entire capacity is taken up with those already vaccinated getting a second jab?
So if you believe - and it's a big 'if' given the uselessness of our government - the 2 million per week aim is feasible, by early to mid April, you have vaccinated approximately 24 million people once, but now need to vaccinate them again, which would take another 12 weeks, so potentially you'll have limited capacity to vaccinate anyone else until late summer. So unless you can massively increase the capacity of the vaccination system, you have a scenario where, by late summer, approximately 50% of the adult population is vaccinated, and 50% isn't. And then you go through the whole cycle again after 12 weeks.
What happens to the normal functioning of the health service at GP level if the bulk of their resources are focussed on vaccination for that period of time?
What am I missing? That's a serious question btw. Long covid has trashed my capacity for reasoning. You can be reasonably sure that government policy will be to think about it when it happens rather than in advance 🙁
Had my first dose on Fri.
NHS nurse in a hdu, being moved next week to an ITU in neighbouring hospital because they are over run.
Seen a few colleagues be very poorly with covid. Known two to be vented.
I've seen a covid ward with 28 patients being run on 2 staff. Just two. Which is diabolical if you know the acuity and safe levels of staffing required. Why? Because the staff are all off with covid.
Less staff = crap care.
The manager said to me (whilst crying) "the patients are not dying from covid. They are dying from neglect" grim.
So it's fair game we get a chance to have a jab so we can stay in work, feel safer and help the public.
Don't get much else from the government.
So it’s fair game we get a chance to have a jab so we can stay in work, feel safer and help the public.
Spot on Olly, I'm getting mine this afternoon (NHS clinical engineer)I'm looking forward to getting shut of some of that anxiety in a couple of weeks.
BWD - hopefully that’s where the “army” of vaccinators being trained up comes in to its own. If we can allow front line professionals to do their day job instead of vaccinating that’s great.
At the moment vaccine availability is the limiting factor not staff. That equation will flip at some point.
I read in the indie today that ASDA pharmacies are going to start giving people the jab.
NHS lothian seems to be testing some staff but not others. On long say wards staff are tested. On more acute wards they are not. thats in the small peripheral hospitals
I can also confirm that we are not treated as contacts as we have PPE on and if we were all staff would be off isolating once an outbreak has occurred
Spot on Olly
Thank You for all your hard work BTW
Nurse on question time said exactly the same, to few nurses to cover too many hdu patients who were dying between being seen as the nurse had to go on another ward. Come back, patient dead.
I'm done.
I barely felt it and my arm isn't sore. I didn't cry - even when they explained that I wasn't going to get a lollipop.
I am now feeling very dizzy, so I'm lying down.
After reading this thread I'm a bit worried that I've jumped in front of those who need it more. I usually assume that the health service knows what it's doing, but having read that those giving the injections and working in hospitals haven't been done has made me wonder.
Christ Olly that’s sobering.
Thank you and your colleagues this is when I’m grateful being that one little step away from that now.
it would be obvious if it reduced transmission, however from everything ive read no evidence of that
Just a point of note...
"No evidence" does not equal "does not" - it literally just means that they haven't found any evidence that it reduces transmission (yet)
Israeli Press reporting some encouraging data from their programme about transmission apparently.
Well it would be obvious if it reduced transmission, however from everything ive read no evidence of that. That said you are right that it makes sense to do it just in case that is the case.
It’s exactly the case. As pointed out by others by media use the lack of evidence to say it doesn’t reduce transmission, the fact is they don’t know so won’t claim it does.
Had my first one this afternoon, I'm NHS Estates.
Felt a little bit of adrenalin about an hour afterwards, not sure if it was the shot or that my new forks had been delivered.
Had my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today, back in April for the second.
Sore arm last night and today, equivalent of a good punch or riding into a tree.
I've got my appointment on Tuesday for the Pfizer jab (work for a nursing home company, rarely go into the homes but do mix with staff that do)
Sore arm last night and today, equivalent of a good punch or riding into a tree.
Likewise. I didn't even feel it going into my arm yesterday
Stood in the queue waiting for my first dose. NHS staff. My trust has expanded its vaccination programme to all staff aged 40+ today.
What are the queues like? Are you waiting long?
Our Trust had staff booked in with a time, I filled out 3 forms then waited about 2 mins.
Mrs B had hers 2 weeks ago she’s a Health visitor doing face to face visits and she’s a vaccinator on her days off, I’m 66 and had heart attack 9 months ago from what I can make out it’ll be mid March at least for mine, must say it’s quite worrying given the current situation
Stood in the queue waiting for my first dose. NHS staff. My trust has expanded its vaccination programme to all staff aged 40+ today.
Ours has opened it up to all staff so I've put my name down. I hope everyone in Olly's shoes at our place has had theirs as I'm about as low risk as can get (young-ish, healthy, WFH).
Just had my parents done, fairly smooth process, no queuing to speak of.
Sandwich Jr was injected today (care home nursing staff).
So far he reports:
"Arm has fallen off
Third eye developed
Can understand fluent Korean
Now female"
This may not be serious!
even when they explained that I wasn’t going to get a lollipop.
@easily That's an outrage! Not even a sticker?
Just had an email, our NHS Trust has done 6000 frontline staff and its now open to all Trust staff. Seems to be going ahead of schedule, fingers crossed.
After reading this thread I’m a bit worried that I’ve jumped in front of those who need it more. I usually assume that the health service knows what it’s doing, but having read that those giving the injections and working in hospitals haven’t been done has made me wonder.
May simply be a question of logistics - if they have spares in the fridge in danger of going off, I'd expect them to be jabbing anyone in the local vicinity rather than chuck them away, so as not to let them go to waste.
Apparently MrsMC missed out on booking a Covid jab today - she's a children's social worker and and they were offered slots today, but as she's on leave this week they'd gone by the time she got the message. Which is a shame, as they've been told face to face interventions must continue in lockdown like they did right through first lockdown.
Her brother works in another county in adult social services and has managed to get a jab booked. He's actually just admin and WFH, but as he's late 50s, very overweight and at least one other comorbidity, so can't blame him for taking it if offered
Well, had the Pfizer jab this afternoon and all good so far.
Next one booked for April 8th so nearer 12 week interval than the licensed 3 weeks, but I think this is fair enough as things stand.
Side effects update. Of the 5 people in my dept who had the jab on Monday only 2 of us made it to Friday without sick leave, one didn't come in the next day and stayed off all week, other two went home Wednesday all with aches, chills and general malaise. Myself I had a headache & sore arm. Other guy felt "under the weather, cold and sore muscles" but still came to work and felt normal by Wednesday.
Our trust is now asking staff to have the vaccine before a day off if at all possible to avoid staff shortage due to side effects as there has been such a lot of reaction
Interesting difference. I had the Pfizer jab. Lots of people warned of a very sore arm, including the nurse who jabbed me. But I've had no side effects other than a very slight ache in my arm, but no different to any other jab I've ever had. Not heard anyone else in my department complain of anything apart from one girl who said she felt crap after the second dose (she was in early and got the second in three weeks,) one woman had an allergic response at the jab site, but she's pre-disposed to that type of thing anyway, and one woman who felt really crap with flu like symptoms, but she did have covid last year.
I'm due to have a typhoid jab as well in a couple of weeks.
Had the Pfizer one last night. Feel fine expect for the dead arm I’ve had all day
Jabbed this morning, was quite busy and whole process took about an hour. Arm is fine, do have a slight temp. Next jab towards end of March