I get why some people think Mark rants. However, I would get more than a little ranty if:
- The industry I was I was in was in a state of extensive change and my team were doing their best to adapt and survive
- I had built something based on my passion and had taken significant risk and huge commitment to get to where I was
- My team were relying on what was built to keep a roof over their heads
In general, it’s too easy to forget that this STW is a small business, with large risks and what must be a relatively low margin. To lead it must be bloody stressful. I certainly would not want to do it!
On top of this we are a demanding and none too diplomatic or patient customer base...
I miss through the grinder too...It's a shame it's moved online
If I happen to go to the home page I actively avoid half the stories as I have the magazine so will read the paper version.
I also miss the kit reviews - I rarely read them on the Web.
Also, aussie boy Will being the poster boy in the Pivot advert makes me doubt the impartiality of that bike review..
You can relax about Wil. His reputation and integrity are things I'd happily risk my house on.
That photo was shot on a press launch that he attended and the first we knew about him being in that ad was when the ad turned up. We generally discourage advertisers using images of us in their ads.
I've been a print subscriber since about issue 4 I think - I picked up a copy at WHS (remember them) in an airport back in the early 2000's and then subscribed. I do like the print copy, but in honesty I don't get the chance to read it now, and with digital so easy to use the only benefit to the print version is the smell of the ink when first opened.
In fact - there's a decision made.... how do i switch my D&P to D only?
I mainly read the mag in the smallest room and so prefer print to digital. As for the articles there's still plenty that pass Bob Hoskins' [url= http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a130932/hoskins-reads-film-scripts-on-toilet/ ]"cold bum test"[/url]. Personally I'm not a fan of the 'we rode some amazing trails in an amazing place' articles, I prefer the 'riding bikes gave us an amazing experience' type (yes there's a fine line between the two sometimes). I miss 'Through the Grinder' too as I'm not an avid follower of the latest gizmology and sometimes I'd find stuff in there that actually looked like it might be useful.
I also miss through the grinder in the magazine
Agreed. I understand the thought process behind moving this to online only, but I think it is a big mistake to have cut it down as much as it has been.
If the proportion of travel related articles increases any further I'll probably end my subscription as I rarely find these of interest. Just padding the mag out with lots of full page photos etc. Most of the these articles come across as a way to fund the trip rather than an attempt to entertain the reader. I'd rather the stuff I wasn't particularly interested in was on line only. Shouldn't make a difference when I have access to both online and mag....but it does. Must admit, I don't even consider the online content when I think of what I get for the subscription, and I wouldn't pay for online only content.
If the proportion of travel related articles increases any further I’ll probably end my subscription as I rarely find these of interest.
Yeah, the last couple of issues have been very samey.
There's a magazine?
Also, aussie boy Will being the poster boy in the Pivot advert makes me doubt the impartiality of that bike review..
Aren't STW committed to "full disclosure"anyway? I doubt there was any dodgy under the table deals
how do i switch my D&P to D only?
Email subs@ is probably the easiest way.
I miss through the grinder too…It’s a shame it’s moved online
I always view it a bit like nosing around a bike shop. I'm not necessarily looking to buy and wanting advice. Sometimes I just like a nose to see what is around and whats new and shiny shiny.
I get why some people think Mark rants. However, I would get more than a little ranty if:
Still not a good habit if you're in a customer facing business. We had a LBS whose owners were known by everyone who cycled as 'miserable bastards', you'd never recommend it to anyone for that reason alone. Closed now and not really missed (although they were the only ones importing Specialised MTB parts in the 1980s which was why I went there). You really need to have a smily disposition if you're dealing with the public, no matter how fricking annoying they are!
You really need to have a smily disposition if you’re dealing with the public, no matter how fricking annoying they are!
Not all if people are being annoying they need told, no need to put up with it.
You really need to have a smily disposition if you’re dealing with the public, no matter how fricking annoying they are!
I disagree.
You really need to have a smily disposition if you’re dealing with the public, no matter how fricking annoying they are!
I disagree.
There is a happy medium between American style fake 'have a nice day/customer is always right' public facing annoyance, and arrogantly dismissing anyone that disagrees with you. You risk bad feeling (and losing subscribers) if you veer to far towards the latter.
Chipps nails public facing in my opinion and it should all come through him
I miss through the grinder too…It’s a shame it’s moved online
I always view it a bit like nosing around a bike shop. I’m not necessarily looking to buy and wanting advice. Sometimes I just like a nose to see what is around and whats new and shiny shiny.
+1, well put. i don't spend a great deal of time on the front page, and wouldn't have sought out gear reviews here.
Chipps nails public facing in my opinion and it should all come through him
Yep agreed, although to be fair he tends not to get involved with the contentious stuff?
If you want an example of how the public face of a company effects business, I'd be happy to continue to support STW (via subscription) based on Chipp's input, while some of the responses we get from Mark make me reluctant to continue sending money their way (and that's despite my view that the subscription is solely for the print mag, not any online content).
I miss having 'through the grinder' in the Mag too, as others have said, it's nice having a nosey at whats on the market even if it's not something you're looking to buy (it's also great having the reviews available online).
Likewise I'm not so keen on the travel articles too, I agree with this:
Most of the these articles come across as a way to fund the trip rather than an attempt to entertain the reader
Keep doing Pete's rides, they're entertaining and it's good to see he's putting his history degree to use! (not being facetious, I like having the history of the landscape woven into the piece - adds a bit more depth).
Thinking more about it maybe it's me prefering the regular writers, you feel a bit more connected with them (as cringey as that sounds).
Ah, the old "good cop / bad cop" routine. Drac and I take the same approach to public Moderation, only it's "bad cop / worse cop." (-:
I've just subscribed. In summary, I don't like the 'paid for by ads' model, and I'd like to see the web move towards 'small subs for what you want to see', so I've put my money where my mouth is, and while I'm about it, get the print magazine.
In a bit more detail: since the start of the internet I've run or help run a number web sites about my sports, all on a voluntary basis, as part of my input to the sport. So, historically, since I've provided free forums for others, I've never felt morally obliged to pay for forums I use (and the Forum is the bit of the site I use most).
I'm now fed up with the constant ad-driven hassles in using the web, and I don't think the model is sustainable. We (the consumers) pay for it in the end, as the advertising costs end up on the price of goods, so why don't we just pay for the web.
A point for Mark - both the 'Magazines' link under the Shop menu and the 'Print Issues' submenu under Magazines return 'Nothing Found'. It took me a little while to work out how to subscribe.
You really need to have a smily disposition if you’re dealing with the public, no matter how fricking annoying they are!
Generally aye good advice, but after a certain level you're perfectly entitled to say bolt ya rocket! 😆
Cheers Greybeard.
There’s a subscribe link to right on the menu bar for subscription options.
I miss having ‘through the grinder’ in the Mag too, as others have said, it’s nice having a nosey at whats on the market even if it’s not something you’re looking to buy (it’s also great having the reviews available online).
Likewise I’m not so keen on the travel articles too, I agree with this:
How many more of these do we need before they take notice? Few people on here expressing the same opinion. Poll?
I've just unsubscribed having been a print subscriber for a few years. Less product reviews, and foreign travel ride articles that I can't relate to, means I'm just flicking through and maybe reading them when I'm bored. Certainly haven't been eager to read the mag when it drops through the letter box these past few months...although I was still getting enjoyment from the smell of it!
I miss through the grinder too…It’s a shame it’s moved online
I always view it a bit like nosing around a bike shop. I’m not necessarily looking to buy and wanting advice. Sometimes I just like a nose to see what is around and whats new and shiny shiny
Yes I agree with this too. The one pagers also break the longer multipage articles up a bit, which I prefer.
I am pleased that there seems to be more focus on UK riding articles recently, I find them more relevant to me than many of the overseas trips.
although I was still getting enjoyment from the smell of it!
My wife was the same, she loved the smell of the magazine...
OP up there mentioned that the articles within the Premier section are not good enough for the general magazine. Hannah's short article on riding in the States, in the current issue, was great.
I would like to see Grinder back too, though.
The actual truth is that reviews in the mag are not worth our time - No matter how many dozen people on here claim that because they miss them or even that this is the reason they cancelled their subscription, that does not alter the fact that the few who do like reviews in print are in the minority. The amount of space they take up and the cost of their production is better spent on content that we know DOES work in print and does get a better response.
This is in addition to the fact that the brands who supply us the product also prefer online reviews to print reviews as they are a) then shareable and b) get a much much larger audience reading them (orders of magnitude more).
And there's more...
In print we can afford 500 compressed words per product. That's what fits on a page. For the people who actually read reviews this is simply not enough space to include the important details that influence buying choices. Online we can include far more information and be much more indepth with the content. That is better for everyone.
In the modern world of publishing content must match the medium in which it is delivered and print is now an unsuitable medium for product reviews. I've not made that up. It's widely accepted in the publishing world. We can serve our readers far better by reviewing products online. We can serve our print readers better by using that saved space for content that does suit print.
I'm not being arrogant in this. I'm being careful and basing my judgement on trusted research from the wider industry and on our own data sources. That data includes input fromreaders who miss the reviews in print, but they do not outweigh the data that tells me that print is not where we should publish reviews. If that honesty and truth upsets you or you disagree with me or perhaps you are in that minority group who miss print reviews enough to cancel your subscription then I am totally ok with that. Not out of arrogance but out of an acceptance of the reality that what we do won't satisfy everyone.
Is our approach working? Yes it is. We are not losing subscribers and we are not desperately trying to gain more. Our subscriber numbers have hovered around the 6000 mark for over 5 years now. The grinder has been gone from the mag for over a year and our figures have remained the same. I'm currently campaigning for more subscribers more aggressively because the bottom has finally fallen out of the online advertising market and we need to increase revenues in other areas to make up that drop. Subscriptions is one revenue stream that we focus on but there are others. Sponsored content is another. Video monetisation is another. We earn revenue directly from Facebook too. We earn commission on outgoing links from our site, including the forum. We have multiple revenue streams and they are all being reballanced to deal with the dynamic changes that are happening in publishing that are affecting our incomes. The print mag is just another medium for our content and that doesn't escape changes. Reviews are out, apart from bike tests, because we know they don't work in a digital world.
If this saddens you then understand that I too miss print reviews - but me missing them doesn't influence my decisions when it comes to keeping Singletrack functioning as a source of income for a dozen people.
This is the upfront truth. It may not provide the answers you were hoping for. I sympathise with you if that's the case but still... now you have actual information.
If you prefer I can start smiling and saying things like, 'I get where you are coming from and we'll definitely take that on board.' But I kind of think telling you the actual reasons behind choices we make is a better option.
As always, our doors here are open to any that want to come and visit and discuss anything with me or the team personally. You will be welcomed in, as all our readers who visit are, and you can see what we do all day, everyday and you can ask us any questions you like and they wil be answered, as always, with honesty.
I still can't promise you will like the answers you get though.
You should attach a small piece of velcro to the front of the magazine, like MBUK did this month. That would bring back the masses.
Edit: Apologies, after that long post, this doesn't feel hugely constructive.
I'm hoping to bring back the Snickers 'energy bar' cover gift we ran a decade ago. That earned considerable 'engagement' to say the least 🙂
The actual truth is that reviews in the mag are not worth our time ... etc
That background's good to know Mark. Everybody can't be pleased by everything all the time.
I’m hoping to bring back the Snickers ‘energy bar’ cover gift we ran a decade ago. That earned considerable ‘engagement’ to say the least
Seems like a marathon task.
I see what you did there.
Neat post Mark.
Highlights some fundamental challenges you face.
Whatever you do, don’t turn the brightness down.
On a more serious note, I've subscribed a few times now, but I've let it lapse this last time. I used to read the magazines, but nowadays I just trawl the internet consuming the endless amounts of information floating around. I often buy magazines when shopping, but it's as much out of habit and they end up on the coffee table very quickly, barely read. I'm sure there will come a point where my brain realises and I stop buying magazines entirely.
I'm glad to see you do quite a bit of online and Youtube type content, but I often find it's a bit too clinical, talking about a component or bike while panning around it. I'd rather see someone having fun on a bike, even if the end opinion ends up a bit subjective. I could merrily sit watching GMBN rubbish for hours, I appreciate it's a completely different type of media. I'd love to see more videos of adventures you guys get out having (or I like to imagine you have).
I also like that you've started embracing ebikes and things online a bit more, even if just to see how angry it makes Americans.
Velcro is where it's at though.
Seems like a marathon task.
Not it anymore it isn’t.
Hi, OP again.
Can we all just leave this now. My original post was based on my misunderstanding of how the front page articles worked.
The thread wasn't meant as a magazine bashing thread, I was just wrong about what was going on. I apologised for this yesterday, and have also said a few times that I still enjoy the mag content.
Can we please now just let Mark get on with the job of keeping this place going.
Thanks.
Not it anymore it isn’t.
Have you tried Texan Mark?
I also like that you’ve started embracing ebikes and things online a bit more
+1
It's definitely the future....
Hi, OP again.
Can we all just leave this now. My original post was based on my misunderstanding of how the front page articles worked.
Don't feel guilty, you are not responsible for the direction the thread takes.
Mark, can you disclose the source/reference for your 'facts'? Without them it is very much reading as 'these are the facts because I'm telling you that they are'.
Why not do a poll to see what a greater slice of people want in the mag, if the views on this thread alone are not deemed relevant?
If the mag continues the direction it has taken regardless, I'm afraid it won't be long before I'm one of the guys that you won't miss when they cancel their subscription. If that is unavoidable, then so be it.
Mark, can you disclose the source/reference for your ‘facts’? Without them it is very much reading as ‘these are the facts because I’m telling you that they are’.
Why not do a poll to see what a greater slice of people want in the mag, if the views on this thread alone are not deemed relevant?
Well, I’m guessing we can take a lot of them at face value, because it’d make no sense for them to change the mag in a direction that loses readers, or the practicalities mean that there’s more pros than cons to cutting particular types of content. Plus it’s his job, so he’s kind of the expert in the room.
And they’ll have all sorts of analytics - it’s important to listen to what people say, but it’s more important to look at what they actually do (especially if the people that are vocal online only make up a small portion of the user base).
Without them it is very much reading as ‘these are the facts because I’m telling you that they are’.
Only on STW.
A site owner takes time to write an extensive post about where the site / magazine is going, something that wouldn't happen on any other publishing site I can think of, and your reaction is "prove it!" Do you think he's lying, or making it up or something? It's surely not a great leap to entertain the notion that Mark might just have slightly more experience of the publishing industry and knowledge of what has and hasn't worked historically in STW for the last decade than you or I might have?
Sheesh. Then some folk complain that STW doesn't communicate things more often / clearly. I can't possibly imagine why there might be a reluctance for them to bother.
Mark, can you disclose the source/reference for your ‘facts’? Without them it is very much reading as ‘these are the facts because I’m telling you that they are’.
Dude give it a rest.
