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This thread does my head in
It's doing your head in as all you've done in this entire thread is victim blame and be one of the entitled dog users. Why can't you accept that some people don't like dogs and/or are scared of them and that dogs and dog owners are at fault?
If you read what was said, you will understand that wasn’t what he was saying.
I think he was saying that we can tell that the dog wasn't actually trying to bite the child, because the child was never actually bitten? So there was no actual malicious intent, just bad behaviour.
The difficulty is that to me (non-dog owner and completely clueless to dog behaviour) and to my toddler (also non-dog owner and completely clueless as to dog behaviour and many other things) there's no functional difference right up to the point where the bite happens and then it's too late.
Life changing owing a dog 🙂
https://clearcaninecancer.com/11-reasons-owning-a-dog-could-change-your-life/
I’m sure explaining that to the child would instantly alleviate the terror
Objectively yes, that would work.
A badly trained dog is a problem, but there's naff all an 11-page rant on a cycling forum will do to solve that. Training the kid on the other hand is within your remit and will solve the problem.
Either ignore it so it gets bored and goes back to it's owner. Because that's how recall works, the dog has to perceive the owner as being more interesting, if you make yourself interesting they don't stand a chance. If you're running around screaming of course the dog's going to find this exciting. Or play a different game with it, throw a stick, fuss it, whatever, just not the "run around hysterically whilst it yaps at you" game, because dogs love that one.
This is what every single dog owner says until the day their dog bites someone though isn’t it.
Apart from the 99.9% that actually do never bite anyone.
Training the kid on the other hand is within your remit and will solve the problem.
It absolutely is, and is likely just as useful as learning how to use cutlery. After all, we were all trained at some point as you don't see many adults running away screaming.
On the other hand, this takes time and in the meanwhile a bit of understanding that from their perspective they are being attacked by a bear coming at them at eye level would be nice. This is of course an understanding that many many people have, but not everyone. Hence I suppose the 11 page rant.
I think he was saying that we can tell that the dog wasn’t actually trying to bite the child, because the child was never actually bitten? So there was no actual malicious intent, just bad behaviour.
Exactly - thank you. Try to stand by what someone is saying and get abuse instead. Bloody people - as badly behaved as some dogs.
Apart from the 99.9% that actually do never bite anyone.
66.7% of people who play Russian roulette survive. Not really the point though is it. And apart from in the deer hunter I guess most people play it voluntarily.
your head in as all you’ve done in this entire thread is victim blame an
Such as?
To all those entitled dog owners on here who think people should get used to dogs:
Looks like there's been a massive increase in bites due to poorly trained dogs bought during the pandemic, and a potential bomb of untrained/unsocialised dogs to come because they haven't been trained/socialised at the right time because of lockdowns.
Anyway. Most of this problem is due to the fact that there are just too many humans. And humans want dogs. Germany has an exhorbitant licencing system in place and a legal requirement for 2 6-week training courses for dogs and dog owners and they *STILL* have the problem.
Stop having kids is the answer people. Then you'll come across less people with dogs. Because in my experience actually trained dogs (that are obedient) are few and far between.
The difficulty is that to me (non-dog owner and completely clueless to dog behaviour) and to my toddler (a
I agree, better safe than sorry, boot the dog up the ass
Anyway. Most of this problem is due to the fact that there are just too many humans.
This is probably true.
And now the "other" humans have found all my secret, quiet places. The incident that sparked this thread was in a local village of about 200 people, 3 miles up a dead end forest track, leading to a non-descript hill, surrounded by 'posh' mountains...
That is exactly where I'd expect to me some of the most problematic dogs Matt. Somewhere the owner thinks itll be ok, they wont meet anyone.
Not really the point though is it.
Kinda is.
You said every single dog bites people
I disagree
You agree you were wrong / hyporboleing
Point resolved.
Back of a fag packet based on that link up there , 8000 dog bites a year, 12million dogs, that's 0.07% of dogs per year, say 14year lifespan, so 7year average age, 0.49% of dogs are biters. I'll take back my 99.9% guess and say 99.5% then.
exactly where I’d expect to me some of the most problematic dogs
They weren't problem dogs. Quite the opposite until one jumped up.
It was the owner and her lack of interest in just holding/calling the dogs away for 20 seconds that was the issue.
You don't have to be bit by a dog (let alone actually report it - which skews your stats) for it to be a "problem dog" @thisisnotaspoon
I'm not scared of dogs and, frankly, if they come up to me and start sniffing about I don't often give two hoots. I like 'em in general. Maybe I'd be a bit annoyed if I wasn't doing anything. But I'm generally not too bothered even if I'm on the bike.
If random's dogs started to jump up at me? Dependent on my mood, might piss me off a little. But it's not a "day ruining" thing for me.
This is what most people are like around dogs. But there are a percentage of people who really don't like it - and frankly, they shouldn't have to put up with it.
So if you're a dog owner, and don't have perfect recall and can't stop your dog bothering others (or, in fact, if your dog isn't trained not to bother others) then you're a bit of a tool tbpfh.
Having a dog is a dog-owner's idea of heaven. Other people's idea of heaven shouldn't impinge on other people's heavens - especially those who think dogs are their idea of hell.
You said every single dog bites people
I absolutely did not. What a weird thing to say.
Came back to the thread to post the link to the Guardian article but many before have beaten me to it!
Good to see levels of not listening to each other are still high though.
My kid is trained to not pet dogs unless she has asked the owner, I expect the same sort of thing from the dog. Friends have trained their dogs thus or keep them on a short lead when they are in situations where their dog instincts stop them listening.
All sounds pretty simple to me, not sure why anyone else thinks differently as IMHO anything else is ignoring the needs of others and, well, that's just selfish and a bit rude.
grum
Free MemberI absolutely did not. What a weird thing to say.
My apologies, ownerless dogs are perhapse excluded by your statement.
This is what every single dog owner says until the day their dog bites someone though isn’t it.
8000 dog bites a year
That's 8000 hospital admissions for dog bites a year. I suspect the actual number of bites is somewhat larger than that. It's certain that the percentage of dogs that end up biting someone is relatively small. However, until they've actually bitten someone, you don't know if any particular dog will bite or not. Indeed, many of the dogs that end up killing someone are claimed not to have bitten before. In these circumstances it doesn't seem unreasonable to find a dog's attentions concerning at least.
Either ignore it so it gets bored and goes back to it’s owner.
Its owner. No apostrophe needed. No-one on this thread will change their view of dogs and dog owners so you may at least learn some grammar from it.
That’s 8000 hospital admissions for dog bites a year.
I would love to know what proportion of that is the dogs owner or family of owner, what proportion is owners of other dogs getting bitten trying to separate fights and what proportion is random strangers. I would imagine the first is by far the biggest.
So after 11 pages we’ve largely concluded
Dogs = good
Humans = bad
.
My apologies, ownerless dogs are perhapse excluded by your statement.
No, my point was that all the dogs that end up biting people were dogs that 'never bite anyone', until the point where they did.
I thought that was fairly obvious. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Stop having kids is the answer people. Then you’ll come across less people with dogs.
The worst dogs I’ve ever come across are owned by the childless who then treat their dogs like children instead of dogs. That’s the crux of the issue in my opinion. People that suffer with anthropomorphism. It’s not a person and doesn’t think nor act like one. It’s a dog, learn to understand how it thinks, perceives the world and behaves and life will be better and less stressful for everyone. Oh and it’s not a ****ing wolf or a bloody pack animal either. It’s a domesticated dog, about as far removed from a wolf in a behavioural sense as I am from a chimp
The worst dogs I’ve ever come across are owned by the childless who then treat their dogs like children instead of dogs
<ahem> Childfree, thank-you, and we don't all do that..
I thought that was fairly obvious. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Then you're not talking about "every single dog owner" are you?
What you meant perhapse is "this is what somewhere less than 1% of dog owners say untill their dog bites someone".
The other 99.something% probably say it too, and it turns out to be completely true.
Jeez. 🙄
Let me simplify it for you; 99.5% (another made up stat) of dogs that bite people will have been described as ones that 'never bite' or had 'dont worry he's just being friendly' etc said by their owners.
The point is that just because they haven't yet is no reliable indicator that they won't.
Could you not just get a cat? Or a hamster? Goldfish?
Just something less smelly, incontinent, annoying and bitey?
From that graun article - CBA screenshotting more but basically the poster was attacked and bitten by two dogs completely out of the blue in the woods, aged 13.
[url= https://i.ibb.co/r2qMGKx/Screenshot-2021-04-15-21-02-14-581-com-guardian.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/r2qMGKx/Screenshot-2021-04-15-21-02-14-581-com-guardian.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
I'm sure it's a great consolation when you've been attacked to be told that the dog isn't like that normally and he's never done anything like that before, with a nice hint of 'therefore it's probably your fault'.
As I said earlier, I used to tell people that my dog hardly ever bites anyone. When in fact, he didn't ever bite anyone, at all, ever. How does that fit into all these people you know who have been bitten, consolation wise? Or will you need a new coloum in your spreadsheet?
Cool story bro
There’s some very entitled none dog owners on this thread.
Not really entitled, more just living in a dream/ideal world.
When I am out cycling;
I don't want people to drive like they do
I don't want people to take up the whole fire road path like they do
I don't want peoples loose dogs jumping up/chasing after me
In fact, I would prefer it it nobody else was came anywhere near me for the whole ride
None of those things are going to happen so I just get on with it. Although I do tend to ride at around 08:00 which lessens all of those things.
The worst dogs I’ve ever come across are owned by the childless who then treat their dogs like children instead of dogs.
One of my guilty pleasures presently is Canine Intervention on Netflix. One of his mantras is “Treat your dog like a person; how does your dog treat you? Like a dog!” 😀
I think he was saying that we can tell that the dog wasn’t actually trying to bite the child, because the child was never actually bitten? So there was no actual malicious intent, just bad behaviour.
Schrödinger's dog bite
not read every single page but seems the take away message I can apply to everyday life is I need to educate myself that all the drivers who give me close passes are just playing and don't mean me any real harm as only a couple of them have ever actually hit me, and none of those killed me.
Furthermore, I should accept that every aspect of society and the environment needs to be designed to cater for their wish to impose their lifestyle choice on everyone else - thats it isn't it?
I thought the message was every car is going to kill you and you shouldn’t venture out into the world as it’s a dangerous place.
Actually now I think about it I've been bitten more times by humans than dogs !! Ok I was drunk a lot in my yoof 🙂
grum
Free Member
Quote
Jeez. 🙄Let me simplify it for you;
No, that's an entirely different statement, may or may not be true, but I'd agree more likely than your last one.
99.5% (another made up stat) of dogs that bite people will have been described as ones that ‘never bite’ or had ‘dont worry he’s just being friendly’ etc said by their owners.
No, it was derived from that Guardian article.
8,000/12,000,000 x100% = 0.06% of dogs (add a for the ones that don't end up needing medical treatment, the average life of a dog before it bites someone and gets put down etc).
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian
Herer's another Guardian article. Shall we have a thread on how we're all bastards in denial about how we're going to kill people with our bikes one day. No that would be absurd nonsense, just like your assertion that every dog is out to bite you someday.
Because:
The point is that just because they haven’t yet is no reliable indicator that they won’t.
A 99.94% percent statistic that they don't, however statistically unreliable and in need of refining, isn't going to be pushed into the realms of reliably supporting your argument that all dogs are out to bite you. That doesn't mean you need to extrapolate that to a fear of everyone and everything.
That doesn’t mean you need to extrapolate that to a fear of everyone and everything.
Clearly that isn't the case, or nobody would go outside. For my part I'd just like people in charge of dogs to recognise that it's not a genuinely bizarre reaction for someone (of whatever age, but again I'm thinking of my 2 year old here) to be afraid of their beloved pet. And also that saying something like 'don't worry they won't bite' is an entirely unhelpful response because seriously, how the hell is a toddler going to be comforted by that?
how the hell is a toddler going to be comforted by that?
Next time it could be a child’s fear!
I know it's completely won't somebody think of the children but also in this case it's my child so I don't care.
good to see a) this is still going and b) turning out exactly as I said on page 5
However, I fear this will just descend into the usual camps; those who can’t understand how anyone can dislike dogs, and those who are indifferent or actively dislike them.
reliably supporting your argument that all dogs are out to bite you.
Sigh. I've already said that wasn't what I said or meant but carry on arguing against your made up version if you like. I'm done.
Funny, I used to think you came across as a reasonable person.