As a caravanner I can confirm that a steady 58 in the inside lane is superbly relaxing.
What is this, amateur hour?
Clearly not towing a twin axle gin palace with a Discovery TDV8.
After as above drink drug no tax mot insurence dangerous wreckless driving has been sorted .
If the above were handed 5k plus fines and community service penilties then the world might start being a better place. Not just another ! 24 month ban which is ignored and a £250 court fine . Steve for chief dictotor !
I would be more in favour of having prove requirement* for a 4*4 SUV and being licenced accordingly.
*Like you work in Forestry or on a farm, or live down a miles long rutted track
Seems inevitable that it will happen eventually
On the contrary. It'll never happen. Not a chance.
Jeremy Clarkson, the 'motoring lobby', a press consisting of libertarian nutjobs and a country set up exclusively for car use that likes nothing more than to drive huge fuel-guzzling ****panzers around, running over small animals and burning oilfields worth of petrol, mean that if a government even tentatively suggested it then there would be absolute outrage
I know that the Just Stop Oil lot wont like it, but the reality of the UK is that the divine right to drive like a **** is one of the few things that would actually provoke a lot of people to protest (a la ****ryside Alliance)
I’ve always wondered for many years why cars that do 150mph are sold in this country (although I own one!) A lot of motorbikes will do in excess of 170mph. 20+ years ago a mate of mine had a Honda Fireblade and he said he could break the speed limit in 1st gear.
the problem with ICE cars and the power bands of the engines. make something that for example does 70 in an efficient way in top gear, and has good acceleration 30-70 in a lower gear; will be easily able to get well into triple digits unless artificially/electronically restricted. which probably no manufacturer will do, unless forced. the germans voluntarily agreed to limit most of their vehicles to 155mph
most electric cars seem to be limited to somewhere around 90-110. despite having quoted power figures that should easily match those high ICE speeds. suggesting that the motors are (quite rightly and sensibly) only designed for a certain speed that reflects normal driving.
There’s technology available to control the restriction to wherever you are driving.
In new cars maybe - there's millions of cars on the road that don't have that tech.
And be careful what you wish for. That same tech can just as easily be fitted to an eBike and restrict you to 15mph anywhere. Just wait for the red-sock brigade to start that petition.
Slightly off topic but I'm sure I read some car, I want to say it's nisaans latest incarnation of some bonkers skyline type thing, but I can't remember is geo-fenced.
so you can't turn off all the safety gubbins and speed limiters unless it knows you're on a race track.
The technology is there.
most electric cars seem to be limited to somewhere around 90-110. despite having quoted power figures that should easily match those high ICE speeds. suggesting that the motors are (quite rightly and sensibly) only designed for a certain speed that reflects normal driving.
The motors won't go any faster, the imbalance in the rotors means they'll start scraping the stator.
You either need a two speed box (Taycan) or a massively more expensive/heavy motor that can both develop the torque at low speed AND wang round at 20000 rpm cleanly. Which won't be an option for most cars.
On the contrary. It’ll never happen. Not a chance.
Already started... Even in Brexit britain
I agree to a degree that the world is doomed, at the hands of us, but i would imagine excessive motorway speed (in good conditions) would be one of the lower causes of accidents.
I think it's a symptom of something deeper - that people don't care about the rules so they will break them when they think they can get away with it. And the reason they don't care is that they don't think collectively. It's not about what's good for society, or those around us, it's about whatever THEY want right now. If we could change that, things would be a hell of a lot better all round.
most electric cars seem to be limited to somewhere around 90-110. despite having quoted power figures that should easily match those high ICE speeds
I think this is because they usually only have one gear, and the motors can only spin so fast. I think this is why a Porsche Taycan has a two speed transmission.
the reality of the UK is that the divine right to drive like a **** is one of the few things that would actually provoke a lot of people to protest
It's not just the UK. German governments keep trying to introduce speed limits but the motoring lobby won't let them.
Its all academic anyway.
The M6 toll at 3am is probably the only time you'll get to do much over 70mph on the UK road network. Pop on to the M60 in Manchester, any time of day and see if you ever get above 40. You won't.
ayjaydoubleyou
most electric cars seem to be limited to somewhere around 90-110. despite having quoted power figures that should easily match those high ICE speeds. suggesting that the motors are (quite rightly and sensibly) only designed for a certain speed that reflects normal driving.
Isn't that more to do with the fact that most electric cars (not all) don't have gearboxes like ICE cars? So, you get peak torque & great acceleration from zero, but by the time you are up at motorway+ speeds you are running out of motor rpm & your torque has fallen away, just at the point your drag is going through the roof.
Stick a 2-speed gearbox on them & they could go a lot faster and/or be more economical - like the Porsche Taycan
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28903274/porsche-taycan-transmission/
Regarding the speed restriction - it seems to me to be tinkering around the edges in terms of road safety & emissions.
If you are doing it for emissions, restrict it to 60.
And for safety, there are tons of other things to improve that will be less controversial & probably have more benefit to target first.
I do a fair amount of miles driving & don't really see people speeding particularly excessively & I can't remember seeing an accident that was speed-related. Just yesterday on the entrance to the Rotherhithe tunnel, a woman drove her SUV straight into another one, while having that me-me-me mentality & 'must get in front'.
molgrips
You’ll get people complaining that they need to be able to exceed the limit for a short time to overtake etc, and that’s fine – so you could let it go over the limit for say 5 seconds.
IMO this would be the worst thing to do. You'd just end up with no end of people being halfway through an overtake when their car limits the power/speed & their left in no mans land on the wrong side of the road with nowhere to go.
So, why are cars not restricted to a max speed of 70mph (or whatever the max speed limit is in the country the car is registered to)?
No individual car maker is going to volunteer to do this (slow cars don't sell). Governments pander to the motoring lobby (whether car makers, petrol producers, motoring groups, clarkson etc). There would probably emerge a black market in "hacked" cars - adding it now would actually make petrol heads stick to older vehicles without it - the very people who probably need to slow down would be inclined to use less safe and more poluting vehicles! In most of the UK we rarely cross borders so limits could make sense, but a unified approach would be needed in mainland Europe (and the island of Ireland). It would make it really hard to increase (or decrease) the limit in the future. The UK is too small to do it alone. Realistically stopping people doing 75 in a 70 is not the priority for road safety, an is not where most people break the limit: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-for-great-britain-july-to-september-2021/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-for-great-britain-july-to-september-2021
Imagine how much taxes would go up, if all those speeding fines stopped being collected, due to using modern tech to limit speeds to the various UK road speed limits.
If that was really the motivator we wouldn't have speed awareness courses as a first option - because that revenue doesn't go to government. A typical speeding fine of £100 isn't actually much for the effort and admin involved in setting up enforcement, processing payments, updating DVLA, dealing with people complaining, etc. There's about 800K fixed penalty notices issued for speeding in E&W each year
- so £80M of revenue. That sounds a lot - it's 0.5% of the entire police budget for E&W or about 0.008% of the total tax take of the UK!
Speeding fines are more than £100 - and now based on weekly salary for major infringements...
Never mind an enforced 70mph, after spending the last few hours on the M6, south, could we have middle lane hoggers removed by Flame Thrower, possibly flipped on to the verge by a giant Scalextric style catapult. 👍😜
I can’t remember seeing an accident that was speed-related.
Every accident is speed related. Speed acts like a damage multiplier, so whatever accident happens, more speed makes it much worse.
It would be a very interesting thought exercise to figure out how to make it work. I suspect tailgating is the biggest cause of accidents on the motorway. It's reasonably common for a middle lane hogger to subconsciously accelerate if someone is coming past them so I could easily see a situation where you have huge queues of tailgaters trying to get past one person. The 5 second grace period wouldn't necessarily help if the middle laner used theirs too. Would cost a lot to figure out the best and safest plan I think
Edit - I'm not saying the above situation is right, but it is how things are and there's not much going to change that
molgrips
Every accident is speed related. Speed acts like a damage multiplier, so whatever accident happens, more speed makes it much worse.
Sorry - I meant to say "excessive speed" related. But, yeah if you wanna go along the line of there must be some speed to have an accident because if the cars aren't moving, no accident can occur.....restrict the speed limit to 20mph? That's faster than a horse & carriage I would expect & they got on OK, didn't they?
Most accidents I see are because people aren't paying attention, or are driving too close together. I regularly see shunts (well, the aftermath) on the A1/A14 where people have clearly been driving too close together & not been able to react in time.
Sure, if they have been at the same distance apart but travelling at 5mph, then the accidents probably wouldn't have happened (speed related). But equally, if they had been travelling at the same speed with half a mile between them, then the accidents probably wouldn't have occurred.
The motors won’t go any faster, the imbalance in the rotors means they’ll start scraping the stator.
You either need a two speed box (Taycan) or a massively more expensive/heavy motor that can both develop the torque at low speed AND wang round at 20000 rpm cleanly. Which won’t be an option for most cars.
exactly - which they have chosen not to build/specify becuase its outside of the anticipated use case. (The taycan and model S plaid for example show it can be done if you have the desire and budget)
whereas with an ICE (a mid range normal car, say 120-200hp, appropriate gearbox), its an unavoidable, no cost side effect of having the desired, legal speed performance and efficiency.
Most accidents I see* are where someone on a main road kindly lets someone out of a side road. And the driver from the side road then just assumes the road is clear and pulls out failing to see the double-decker coming the other way.
(*this may be related to my office being on a busy junction! 🙂 )
Yep, less stress. In for me.
Let's think about job investment that you don't have to drive miles for too!
There's too much emphasis on how *things* are today as being the correct way to do things. And too many talk show hosts wailing their mouths off for the status-quo as being the only way.
Change it. Make it better for all.
relying on cars to 'read' signs seems such the wrong way to solve the problem. Just have a national mapping dataset, which contains speedlimits for all roads, and have that installed on every vehicle - mandatory
only issue I can seewould be stuff like temporary limits. so would need some workflow where applying for a temporary limit would update the dataset and trigger an update to all vehicles. That might be tricky.
I'm very much in favour of removing the choice to speed.
I'd also like something done about all these idiots with massive loud exhausts on bikes and cars, which shake the windows as they smash it past your house in a 30 zone. Seems to have massively increased round my way. Talk of changing to a 20 will be nice, but these guys are already ignoring 30s so it;ll make no difference. Take the choice away from them.
relying on cars to ‘read’ signs seems such the wrong way to solve the problem. Just have a national mapping dataset, which contains speedlimits for all roads, and have that installed on every vehicle – mandatory
You mean like i said near the bottom of the last page?
Because,
a) It's actively dangerous.
b) You're addressing the wrong problem. Dynamic limiting linked to a system which reads speed limit signs would make far more sense.
c) It'd encourage people to lazily drive flat out everywhere. No need to think about limits or road conditions anymore, just put your foot to the boards, job jobbed.
d) The people who most need limiting would bypass the system and to hell with the consequences. There are balaclava-clad youths riding on the roads round here on motorbikes with no licence plates, often up on one wheel. Do you suppose they'd give the slightest of ****s about derestricting a speed-limited bike?
But, yeah if you wanna go along the line of there must be some speed to have an accident because if the cars aren’t moving, no accident can occur…..restrict the speed limit to 20mph?
That is a logical fallacy known as 'reductio ad absurdum'
I’d also like something done about all these idiots with massive loud exhausts on bikes and cars, which shake the windows as they smash it past your house in a 30 zone. Seems to have massively increased round my way.
Same.
There's a lad on a scooter with L-plates here, it sounds like he's got a straight-through exhaust. He does laps around the block all day and he can't leave the bloody throttle alone. I'd cheerfully kick the noisy bastard under a bus.
molgrips
That is a logical fallacy known as ‘reductio ad absurdum’
You started it 😉 with the comment that every accident is speed related.
"If there's no speed, there can be no accident"....sounds a lot like reductio ad absurdum, to me.
tbh an even more progress thought would be to try and solve the reason why everyone needs to drive around so much in the first place if the goals are safety, improved air quality etc...
Like maybe public transport provision that is cheap, comfortable and effective
Even more working from home policies
Reducing the amount of delivery drivers (maybe something like your deliveries are all delivered on one or two days of the week rather than every day)
Tax the crap out of high mileage users or users who use vehicles to do multi short journeys, to try and curb the behaviour. With exceptions for genuine reasons like disability or age
Make active travel as attractive as possible through sensible infrastructure and dropping VAT of anything related.
And geofence the speeds, I am all for fully autonomous as soon as possible
That is a logical fallacy known as ‘reductio ad absurdum’
No, it was literally your point. I'd typed "well, stationary cars tend not to crash" as a reply before seeing someone else had said pretty much the same thing.
There is always going to be a compromise, and we've had this conversation before. Restricting cars to 4mph and having a man walk in front waving a little red flag would dramatically reduce both incidence and severity of RTAs. But that's blatantly unrealistic so we need to work out what is.
We - as in, the country, not you and me - need to have a grown-up discussion around speed limits. 30mph in a heavily built-up area is too fast, 70mph on a deserted motorway is too slow. But that'll never happen because proponents on both sides won't listen to the other.
I’d also like something done about all these idiots with massive loud exhausts on bikes and cars, which shake the windows as they smash it past your house in a 30 zone.
I believe acoustic cameras are being trialled. The sound levels proposed are unrealistically low from what I heard.
If anyone can persuade my employer to let me WFH more, please do
If anyone can persuade my employer to let me WFH more, please do
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working
Approximately two-thirds of all crashes in which people are killed or injured happen on roads with a speed limit of 30mph or less.
but are the people who crash driving at or below the speed limit?
if cars are going to have speed restrictors, they need to restrict the car to the speed limit that they are being driven in.
30mph in a heavily built-up area is too fast,
The Welsh Government has thoughts on that.
I dispute that 70 mph on a deserted motorway is too slow though. Too slow for what? Your impatience? Driving at 80 wastes fuel, and that's not a good thing. 70 is quite fast enough, you can deal with it.
I would be more in favour of having prove requirement* for a 4*4 SUV and being licenced accordingly.
*Like you work in Forestry or on a farm, or live down a miles long rutted track
What would you do with saloons, estates or sports cars that use more fuel and emit more CO2 than those SUVs that you happen not to like?
Intolerance and hypocrisy at its finest. With a lack of critical thinking too.
I am not sure the technology is there to allow cars with a speed limiter to ignore it on a track day or when driving in places where the limit is higher.
I am not sure the technology is there to allow cars with a speed limiter to ignore it on a track day or when driving in places where the limit is higher.
Have a manual over-ride, but if you are caught with it switched off on a public highway it's an offence.
Wouldnt bother me. I'd rather we had France style motorway speed limits, i.e. 80 in nice dry conditions and effectivley 60 in the wet.
I also rather see madatory speed limiters on ALL cars for any road. The technology is there.
Cougar has it.
Also
If every car was going the exact same speed, (ignoring trucks for a second) perception of speed would fall even more than it has already.
I find motorways a much more relaxing place to be when everybody is travelling the same speed
Being overly relaxed behind the wheel is a reason for accidents.
A car could lurk in a blind spot (or a not paying attention spot) for miles. Accident rates would soar.
Like it or not light commercials have some massive blind spots and mirrors can filth up pretty quickly in the winter
Any stats showing accidents above 70mph ? Crap driving is the biggest problem we have not speed but that would take too much solving. Driving should be a privilege not a right and should have regular retests. Speed on its own just isn’t the issue people seem to think it is,
I dispute that 70 mph on a deserted motorway is too slow though. Too slow for what? Your impatience? Driving at 80 wastes fuel, and that’s not a good thing. 70 is quite fast enough, you can deal with it.
Dispute what you like, it's my money that's paying for my fuel. Driving at 70mph still "wastes fuel," why not drive at 60, or 40, or 4? What about an EV?
The 30mph limit was brought in in the 1930s. Today we have a far better understanding of the impact of, uh, impact at different speeds (and there's various other considerations such as noise). It's too fast.
The 70mph motorway limit was a figure Barbara Castle pulled out of her arse as a temporary measure in the 1960s. It's completely arbitrary and I'm not driving an Austin Morris. If you can't drive in a straight line on an empty 3-lane highway at (say) 80mph without spontaneously combusting you should probably take the bus.
From my observation the majority of accidents on roads with 70mph limits are lane changing into an occupied lane and failing to notice traffic slowing.
Another observation, aside from the M40, which seems to be an anomaly. Speeds have dropped massively in recent years with trackers in company vehicles, average speed cameras and not so smart motorway’s.
The 40mph everywhere muppets are still out in force everywhere else though.
Slightly off topic but I’m sure I read some car, I want to say it’s nisaans latest incarnation of some bonkers skyline type thing, but I can’t remember is geo-fenced.
Nissan GTR
I am not sure the technology is there to allow cars with a speed limiter to ignore it on a track day or when driving in places where the limit is higher.
Well since the GTR came out in 2007...
Also agree that the sign reading AI needs massive amounts of work, my Focus had a shitfit when I drive past a slip road restricted to 30mph, if I had "intelligent" cruise on that would have been seriously dangerous.
Map databases aren't much better, I'm on the latest map pack and it still has the wrong limits (or limits that never existed) for plenty of roads I drive along. Google is exactly the same.
Dispute what you like, it’s my money that’s paying for my fuel. Driving at 70mph still “wastes fuel,” why not drive at 60, or 40, or 4? What about an EV?
Happy for the limit to drop to 60mph tbh. There's a climate crisis and nobody wants to change anything that actually impacts them.
Me doing my recycling is not going to help really. Me not flying anywhere probably will. I dont like it, but that's the choice I've made.
Some people are less selfish and do drastically less driving than me.
Others take multiple flights a year purely for leisure because <insert excuse>.
So unless people are forced to do something, they wont.
Tbh, your attitude to excessive fuel consumption (for no REAL benefit) sucks. "I can afford it so it's nobody elses business". Just like all the rich ****s flying in their private jets to go watch a football game etc.
But anyway - enforcing speed limits is a good idea. More so 20, 30, 40 etc than on motorways. It will happen and it will take time for the majority of cars to have the tech, but I wont be shedding any tears for people that cant just do whatever speed they like when the fancy takes them.
I think everyone on the motorway should have to actually do 70mph and keep a 2 second gap, I would be happy. The motorway would just flow rather than all this stopping and starting and lane changes etc. A volvo I had about 6 years ago, had a feature so that it would limit to the road speed unless you "really" pushed on the accelerator. If you know that your speed is limited to the max for the road, then you can spend more time looking out the front window than not at the speedo.
Speeds have dropped massively in recent years with trackers in company vehicles, average speed cameras and not so smart motorway’s.
I think the increase in electric vehicles driven by company car drivers is a major part of the speed drop on motorways
