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Really? Were people from ****stan always offended by having their origin shortened from ****stani to ****? I don't know but I doubt it.
Why do you doubt it?
See also Jock, Taffy, Paddy, Scouser, Gypsy, etc etc etc etc
Quite. I know the etymology of a couple of those (the river Taff and Lobscouse stew) and they're wholly innocent. Can't comment on the others, but they're seemingly largely acceptable in the right context; someone on here got called a Jock earlier today and the world didn't end.
This may be true. However, if I were to assume that every time I heard it it was intended as an insult, that would be my failing.
Of course, you are right. But still it is not a name you would use to refer to yourself. And whilst you would be able to recognise that most often it was said without malice, you would still rather that they didn't use the term. Honest.
There's a lot of bigoted knuckle-draggers in this world, be they white, black, or green with purple stripes. Doesn't make it right to assume that everyone is - you're as bad as they are when you do.
Yes, I agree which makes it difficult when you see those who you know are not malicious behave in the same way as those who are and so validate their actions, in fact giving them licence for their malicious behaviour.
Why do you doubt it?
Common sense?
The first ****stani guy comes over from ****stan, learns English, integrates with the community. He meets Dave and says "hi, I'm Tahir, from ****stan." Dave introduces Tahir to his mate Brian, "hey, Brian, have you met Tahir, he's a ****." Tahir replies "what?! How dare you, you racist bastard!"
To suggest it's inherently racist is nonsensical. It's held as a racist term because we palefaces spent a decade or two cementing it as one.
FFS!
To my mind "****" became unacceptable as people started using it in hate speech (and misusing it to mean anyone from Asia).
People used to called Turkish people ****s??? Wow, the more I know the more I realise how little I know.
Tahir replies "what?! No! it's ****stani"
Dave: Yeh, whatever, but I'm gonna call you ****, regardless of what you call yourself.
Brian:Yeah, ****, that's what you are.
Tahir: No, but it's not ****, it's...
Brian & Dave: We don't care
Tahir: You racist bastards
Why do you doubt it?
Okay let me put it another way, if anyone was offended [u]just[/u] by having ****stani shortened to **** then they were over-sensitive and should have had a word with the Scots, Turks, Poles, Brits, Aussies, Windies... etc etc 🙂
It's not a film about racism.
Perhaps not. But the Nazis are generally considered racists. And the Brits the pure good guys. Watching the original raises a talking point about moral relativism and the changing face of racism. An interesting point that has been discussed at length here but that is lost by this change.
they don't want that to overshadow a nice story
That's the biggest irony. It's a story about brave young men sacrificing their lives in a bombing raid which kills over 1,500 people, most of whom were POWs or civilians. It's not really a nice story at all. 😕
People used to called Turkish people ****s??? Wow, the more I know the more I realise how little I know.
Yes, soon you'll catch up with the rest of us
But still it is not a name you would use to refer to yourself.
I thought we'd established that this wasn't the case?
whilst you would be able to recognise that most often it was said without malice, you would still rather that they didn't use the term. Honest.
Yep, fair comment. I think that's a slightly different situation though.
...giving them licence for their malicious behaviour.
That's an interesting point, actually. If we did theoretically manage to get away from this "automatic offence" situation, would that then give the intellectual proletariat something to hide behind? Hm.
Tahir replies "what?! No! it's ****stani"
Dave: Yeh, whatever, but I'm gonna call you ****, regardless of what you call yourself.
Brian:Yeah, ****, that's what you are.
Tahir: No, but it's not ****, it's...
Brian & Dave: We don't care
Tahir: You racist bastards
That's not really [i]racism [/i]though, is it. That's like me objecting to being called Al when my name's Alan.
would that then give the intellectual proletariat something to hide behind? Hm
Difficult to hypothesise the situation, but I don't think they particularly want to hide
That's not really racism though, is it. That's like me objecting to being called Al when my name's Alan.
I suppose it depends on why the choose to ignore his wishes. But given that the community being ignored has race in common, then yeah, racist or near as dammit
Racist!
if anyone was offended just by having ****stani shortened to ****
dont think they have an inherent dislike of contractions of the english languageit was the manner in which it was used and what it meant.
I assume we can all agree a contraction to **** would be fine if it were not for the fact it was used an abusive and racist term unlike all the others which are just lazy contractions.
****, is this [i]still[/i] going?
*logs off again*
I suppose it depends on why the choose to ignore his wishes. But given that the community being ignored has race in common, then yeah, racist or near as dammit
Well, for a start, commonality doesn't imply causation. If they were ignoring those wishes because of race (ie, they didn't like brown people), that would indeed be racism. If they were ignoring those wishes simply because they just wanted to use a simple nickname and didn't see what the problem was, that's not racism irrespective of any common traits. It's pig ignorant, perhaps, but it's not racist.
Anyway. Arguably, this bizarre little model we've built has no foundation in actual events. Have the Asian community actually ever objected to the term in isolation as you suggest, or is it actually the case (as I suspect) that they'd prefer that we didn't use the term simply because it's subsequently come to be favoured by racist halfwits?
****, is this still going?*logs off again*
I'd like to sincerely and wholeheartedly apologise on behalf of whoever it was who forced you to open and read a thread that clearly disinterested you, and would like to thank you for your eloquent and valued contribution to the discussion.
Politcal correctness once again gone insane. Next Mel Brooks will be sending a couple of diggers off to check for quicksand.
Well, I know the chinese community don't like the term chink or chinky, and that's not so such a hot racial issue as the term ****. It's difficult to separate the two really. But i'll accept it may not be strictly racism (next Simon Cowell TV series?) and that it is clearly ignorance.But ignorance of cultural and racial differences and sensitivities is a bit racismy
It's difficult to separate
This is kinda where I was going. It's all a bit tricky. It's all a bit [i]unnecessarily[/i] tricky.
next Simon Cowell TV series?
Actual LOL there. (-:
Next Mel Brooks will be sending a couple of diggers off to check for quicksand.
[s]"Oh, de Camptown ladies sing dis song...."[/s] "I get no kick from Champagne...."
I don't understand why political correctness is a 'bad thing'. What do you loose by not being able to use bigoted language without being called a bigot?
Is it political correctness in this case? Or is it more pragmatic (but mundane) than that? They want their film to be seen by as many people as possible. Having a dog called **** will make people not go on principle. Change the name, make more money.
Or they're going for a PG rating. By not changing the name that would be impossible.
Plus the film isn't about the dog.
Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people's traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race
I think that some peoples thoughts on racism differs somewhat on this thread I wholeheartedly agree with graham s, if it is said or meant as derogatory then yes it is racist if not then it is people being oversensitive
It would have been a lot easier if they'd just called the dog "coon" and be done with all this "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" fallafel about digger/**** etc.
I don't understand why political correctness is a 'bad thing'. What do you loose by not being able to use bigoted language without being called a bigot?
What you lose is the ability to speak naturally without someone assuming you mean something you don't just because the last person to use the same words was a halfwit. Ultimately, we're going to run out of words.
Having a dog called **** will make people not go on principle.
Speculation. Will it? Really? Name me one person who's never watched the original on principle.
It would have been a lot easier if they'd just called the dog "coon"
Short for "raccoon" obviously.
I wholeheartedly agree with graham s, if it is said or meant as derogatory then yes it is racist if not then it is people being oversensitive
Graham S is the one being massively oversensitive. Who honestly gives that much of a shit about changing one letter of the name of a dog in some film? 🙄
I'm genuinely amazed that anyone would think they [i]wouldn't[/i] change it tbh.
What you lose is the ability to speak naturally without someone assuming you mean something you don't just because the last person to use the same words was a halfwit. Ultimately, we're going to run out of words.
Hmm... political correctness can be annoying, but a lot of it is pretty much made up by newspapers or 'my mate told me' stories down the pub - and regardless, surely it's an improvement on society being openly bigoted? Obviously not in some people's eyes.
if it is said or meant as derogatory then yes it is racist if not then it is people being oversensitive
The fact is they have connotations which obscure the intent behind their use. And I've never been in a situation where I need to use either '****' or '****'. Maybe that's just me...
if it is said or meant as derogatory then yes it is racist if not then it is people being oversensitive
Sometimes you can't tell the difference and it's just unpleasant
I used to work with a guy who owned a particularly boisterous Labrador called Mugabe.
Upon asking why he chose that name for his pet, he replied 'it's cos he's black and he's a bastard'
Is that racist? Possibly. Funny all the same though.
What you lose is the ability to speak naturally without someone assuming you mean something you don't just because the last person to use the same words was a halfwit. Ultimately, we're going to run out of words.
Rubbish.
Obviously...although it was more the coonhound angle I was coming from.:)
this is so funny. people complying "its PC gone mad" and getting all offended about nothing
the only people being offended here are those complaining about the name change. its really very simple. it does not affect or alter the story in any significant way and it means that there will not be a row in the US about it detracting from the commercial potential of the film. its just a pragmatic decision of no great consequence
What you lose is the ability to speak naturally without someone assuming you mean something you don't just because the last person to use the same words was a halfwit. Ultimately, we're going to run out of words.
Well we wont really run out of words though we may run out of intentionally pejorative or insensitively used words.
Every time somebody shouts "its PC gone mad"... I hear "I am a thwarted bigot" dunno why.
I want to shout " its PC living with mental health issues"
surely it's an improvement on society being openly bigoted?
I'm not entirely convinced that a natural stance of "bigoted unless proven otherwise" is entirely an improvement. I grow weary of having to pick my words ever so carefully whenever I refer to someone with a bit of a tan, only to be told I've got it wrong anyway.
Fair do's 🙂
Rubbish.
Well, I can't possibly disagree with such a well-constructed argument.
I grow weary of having to pick my words ever so carefully whenever I refer to someone with a bit of a tan, only to be told I've got it wrong anyway.
It must be awful for you - much worse than the open racist abuse endured by ethnic minorities in the past I'm sure. You poor thing.
Well we wont really run out of words though we may run out of intentionally pejorative or insensitively used words.
Well, no, we won't run out of words, of course. I was being silly for humorous effect.
I'd disagree with the latter half of that, though; you've got it backwards. We won't run out of intentionally pejorative words, ever, because we're so very good at creating them; we're exponentially more likely to run out of acceptable ones.
What you lose is the ability to speak naturally without someone assuming you mean something you don't just because the last person to use the same words was a halfwit. Ultimately, we're going to run out of words.
I grow weary of having to pick my words ever so carefully whenever I refer to someone with a bit of a tan, only to be told I've got it wrong anyway.
The reason it's rubbish is because (and I'm assuming here) you wouldn't use '****' to refer to someone 'with a bit of a tan' in normal conversation because people would think you a bigoted halfwit.
It must be awful for you - much worse than the open racist abuse endured by ethnic minorities in the past I'm sure. You poor thing.
Gosh. If I were German, would you have me apologising on behalf of the Nazis?
I can't begin to imagine how that must have been for them, and I wish it wasn't the case. However, I didn't do it, and I strongly object to the implication that I'm somehow racist by association solely because some bugger else was.
The reason it's rubbish is because (and I'm assuming here) you wouldn't use '****' to refer to someone 'with a bit of a tan' in normal conversation because people would think you a bigoted halfwit.
This is correct. Their conclusion would be wrong, however. That's their failing, not mine. Regardless, I choose not to run the risk of being misunderstood where possible.
Gosh. If I were German, would you have me apologising on behalf of the Nazis?
What on earth are you talking about? I'm suggesting that your slight awkwardness about what to call a black person isn't really a big deal (can't say it's bothered me that much when I've made similar faux pas in the past) and the current 'PC gone mad' situation is largely a great improvement on the past.
Might I suggest those who are bothered by the name change get themselves over to the Daily Mail article comments on the subject, they would feel right at home.
I can't even begin to define my outrage at this ridiculous editting of the dog's name!- Alison, Lincolnshire, England, 10/6/2011 16:55
She must really struggle with every day life if this outrages her that much.