[Closed] A Black Dog Named "Digger"?

Ah but TuckerUK, were you ever in the PC Brigade?

Drac - Moderator

perhaps a bit like denying the holocaust?

Yes changing the dog's name is exactly like that.

Hoy mod, go boil yer head will yer? Airbrushing history thats inconvenient to your belief system is exactly what we are talking about here. If you care to read up on the growth of anti semitism in Nazi Germany you will find it started with very small untruths, nurtured over time, so yes exactly like this. You may care to read up on the work of Leni Riefenstahl in this context.

Don’t forget, when the US military were stationed in England, and much to the shock and horror of the English, the US black forces were segregated, banned from mixing with their non-coloured fellow serviceman.

Ah but TuckerUK, were you ever in the PC Brigade?

That's so funny I had to show it to my partner and son.

If you knew me you'd know why that was funny. It's probably not possible to be less PC than me, I try to avoid being PC at all costs.

Well done.

Tucker UK uses the term english when he means UK in a thread about racism

Because Tucker's family were English and living in England, he can't speak for the rest of the UK.

so if we change the dogs name according to chaos theory and the laws of unintended consequences we will be gassing black people very soon...it seems highly unlikely can you run the logic past me again?

An incidentally, and despite what the US Wikipedia (sic.) says, the English aren't a race, they're a nationality. I'm Caucasian by race.

*pulls up a chair*

biscuit anyone?

I'm human by race.

PC overload in your child's face.

*pulls up a chair*

biscuit anyone?

Oooh yes please,

I think i'll have some of those ...

TUC Crackers

Mmmm

At the end of the day, I doubt our biggest worry with the film will be the dogs renaming (which incidentally I do disagree with, but I understand perfectly why).

The new film will of course somehow change the whole affair to be a major American achievement, with a couple of wonky toothed underfed Brits in the film just for balance. It'll probably be a raid by B-17s in daylight.

Oooooooh good call. Are they the TUC Cracker sandwich things with the weird cheese-flavoured substance in them. I love them. Even though i know they're wrong

I'm human by race.

Yeah, but you ended with the consolation prize in that race didn't you.

dog rest his soul.
[img] [/img]

Deus sileo suus niger animus

GrahamS

To further quote Wiki...

**** was portrayed in the 1955 British war film The Dam Busters, in which he was mentioned by name frequently. The word ****, which was in general use as a dog's name at the time

Which goes back to my original point - people didn't call their dogs **** because they were racist, they called them it because it was simply a popular dog's name at the time. Racism isn't inferred, it is deliberate - calling a black person a **** would be deemed racist (then as well as now), calling a dog **** wasn't deemed racist in the 1940s because it was simply a dog's name.

Just like a spade is a digging implement, but directed at a black person it is racist as it is meant in a derogatory manner.

Have you noticed that the script on his grave is similar to that of the Waffen SS?

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-1p2pn4Nct8Ok7MZdiYDFB3dI1xwM1_OLk2NzcNzSfF2EK4lg [/img]

The dog was obviously a Nazi sympathiser.

The new film will of course somehow change the whole affair to be a major American achievement, with a couple of wonky toothed underfed Brits in the film just for balance. It'll probably be a raid by B-17s in daylight.

Stephen Fry (English) is writing it and Peter Jackson (Kiwi) is producing it - so it may not be [i]entirely[/i] Americanised.

The dog also ate his dinner from a upturned hat that Guy Gibson liked to wear aroung the house...

[img] [/img]

True story.

ah the good old days
homesexuality was ilegal
dogs could be called ****
and the bins were collected on a weekly basis

obviously a Nazi sympathiser

IIRc he even wore an iron cross on his collar.

This is FACT.

McHamish, have you just invoked Dogwin's rule?

Bit, bit, he's blick!

very off the wall but just been walking my dog and an old lady in the park calling to her (loaner) black lab "Nigg's", I really didn't like to ask her to elaborate.
Just weird, as I wouldn't have even given it a moment thought without this thread.

Did we learn nothing about racial harmony from Leathal Weapon 2.

Which goes back to my original point - people didn't call their dogs **** because they were racist, they called them it because it was simply a popular dog's name at the time.

So your contention is that it was used as a name for black dogs and as a derogatory name for black people - but that was pure coincidence?

Even if I bought that, and I'm not sure I do, it is [i]still[/i] and interesting historical context and still a point that is worth talking about rather than masking over.

Hang on, I got lost on page 2.
Is Professor Griff a real Professor or what?

Dr Fox is twice as bad if you ask me, being neither a Doctor, or indeed a Fox.

So your contention is that it was used as a name for black dogs and as a derogatory name for black people - but that was pure coincidence?

Or are you suggesting that people called their dear companions a derogatory term because they hated black people so much?

EDIT: They called them **** because of the original connection with the word black
[i]The variants neger and negar, derive from the Spanish and Portuguese word negro (black), and from the pejorative French nègre (****). Etymologically, negro, noir, nègre, and **** ultimately derive from nigrum, the stem of the Latin niger (black) (pronounced [?ni?er] which, in every other grammatical case, grammatical gender, and grammatical number besides nominative masculine singular, is nigr-, the r is trilled).[/i]

It's not like the dog is that key to the story, apart from getting run over just before the raid and gettings it's name used as the codeword for a successful breach,it didn't do much, it's not like it flew one of that damn planes or owt.

It's not even as if the damn dog was black anyway, oh hang on......bugger

Of course I do you cretin.

Oh, so a black person calling another black person '****' in an ironic manner is the same as using a derogatory term for black people as the name for a dog is the same, is it? Oh, right...

Interesting that you seem to imply I have some form of mental disability simply because I suggested you possibly don't fully understand an issue...

Ok, seeing as how there are quite a few hard of thinking and culturally ignorant people on here, i'll try to explain...

Right, we'll start with this:

people didn't call their dogs **** because they were racist, they called them it because it was simply a popular dog's name at the time

Whist this may well have been true, many people in that period would not have met or encountered any black people in their lives. So, they would have been pretty ignorant of any terms which might possibly have actually been offensive to the very people the words were used to describe.

The word '****' is a biologically determinate expression; a word used to describe someone based purely on the colour of their skin. The term dates back to times when black people were victims of slavery. It was a word used to describe not even people, but objects, possessions, currency.

Of course it's origins are purely descriptive; it just means, ultimately, 'black'.

However, a '****', in Western Anglophone society, was seen as sub-human by many white people. In a very similar manner to how the Nazis saw Jews, inferior to the pure Aryan race.

So, calling a dog '****' may have been likened to comparing a black person to a dog; an inferior species, subservient to Man, some[i]thing[/i] without equal rights with other people. Little more than a possession, a plaything.

My mum talks of how black people were routinely referred to as '****s' by many white folk in the 40s and 50s, without any malevolent intention whatsoever.

So, changing the name of a dog in a film, in consideration to the fact our society has changed somewhat, isn't really 'PC Gawn Mayd', it's just a polite concession to the fact we're all equal, surely? TBH, I doubt most black people I know would be all that bothered, and some might even say 'why change facts', but there you go. It's not a big deal really, is it? 'Digger' is fine, surely? '****' might make people feel uncomfortable, because of the association with the historical treatment of and struggle for emancipation by black people throughout the Globe.

So, don't let it worry you.

I wonder how many on here crying 'ooh why change history' are actually black themselves?

As for Snoop Dog etc;

Black people re-appropriated the word '****' to use amongst themselves, in an ironic manner. Take away the hate in a word, and it becomes innocuous, even a term of affection. It no longer causes pain in the way it once did. See also 'Queer' amongst homosexual people. But people from outside that ethnic group using the word is in variably in an insulting and derogatory manner.

Hope

This

Helps.

So, calling a dog '****' may have been likened to comparing a black person to a dog; an inferior species, subservient to Man, something without equal rights with other people. Little more than a possession, a plaything.

Purely supposition there Elfin.

Elfinsafety - Member

Of course I do you cretin.

Oh, so a black person calling another black person '****' in an ironic manner ...

I can't believe there's anybody who's even only slightly educated, who doesn't know all this as simple general knowledge.

I'm glad you typed it. I wouldn't have had the patience.

TuckerUK - Member

It's probably not possible to be less PC than me, I try to avoid being PC at all costs.

Really? Seems a bit weird to base your own position so much on the opinions of others.

Yes, Listen to Elfin, he's one of [i]them[/i].

I try to avoid being PC at all costs.

Even when you know it's the right thing to do?

Listen to Elfin, he's one of them.

I'm glad you typed it. I wouldn't have had the patience.

Merely trying to bring light where previously there was darkness...

'may'
Purely supposition there Elfin.

Of course. But I'm just trying to consider the reaction of a modern audience to something they may have little understanding of. And the subsequent need for lengthy explanation to try to avoid confusion and angry reaction.

Merely trying to bring light where previously there was darkness...

Racist!

A Nazi sympathising labrador?

I see myself as more of a cat person....

[img] [/img]

Agreed with Elf – can’t see that changing it is a big deal really. We live in more enlightened times (one hopes) so why not avoid the needless upsetting of sensibilities? The name of a dog in the context of the story is a piffling detail.

Totally irrelevant, but there is a similarly named cat in a rather good story called ‘The Rats in the Walls’ (1924) by H.P. Lovecraft – I commend it to all connoisseurs’ of gothic horror.

Take away the hate in a word, and it becomes innocuous, even a term of affection

And there's the rub. It's not the word, it's the intent.

so why not avoid the needless upsetting of sensibilities?

The name of a dog in the context of the story is a piffling detail

And there's the rub. It's not the word, it's the intent.

And backhander should know, he was in tents when he was in the army.

[img] [/img]

that is all.