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Yep. For his sake, I hope he does well. If not, it might ruin his potential career as a rugby player. If he doesn't do well, the same hype-mongers who have raised him on this pedestal will whip it out from underneath his feet.
Yep. Despite being unconvinced by his game at centre so far, he seems like a really nice bloke as well as a tremendous athlete. I'd be very happy if he gets a shot at 6 (where he's actually been very good) and kills it.
Yes, but from his club only, AFAIK. (Might be wrong, but I thought it was a Bath deal to buy him in, not involving the Blazers at the Cabbage Patch)
Officially. RFU might not have chucked money in directly but they may well have made promises regarding the RWC (and IMHO, they did).
Still feel for Burrell. He played a good 6N and fully deserves a spot. I bet he's crushed.
I don't know what the actual deal is (who does?) but it was always reported that the RFU subsidized the cost of bringing him to Union which of course upset the other clubs. Bath alone don't really have the motivation to drop a ton of cash plus time and energy on a risky prospect who either ends up a) struggling to adapt and is an expensive, rubbish player or b) does well and ends up up missing most of the contracted time with them on international duty. Kind of makes sense the move was helped along by the RFU, much like other league players before
The official line was that the RFU didn't contribute(financially) to the deal. Bruce Craig is quite rich and Burgess was their marquee player and so out of the salary cap.
As I understand it, the RFU don't pay his wages (at Bath) but contributed towards buying him out from the previous club which is supposed to be a significant amount. So they are not directly helping Bath as such, more paying the big fee to release him to Union and then anyone *cough Bath* can sign him up for club rugby
Lancaster has taken his time, rebuilt team ethic from the ground up, gradually expanding England's game plan as we go.
41 matches. 71 players used. 60% win record.
No 6N titles and a dismal record against the SH.
If you're happy with that - great!
SL said that come the RWC he wanted a starting XV with 600 caps - well he's nowhere near that. His only decent selector has been injury - otherwise Ford and JJ would never have got a look in.
Carrythemhome? What a load of bollox - unless it's carry Lancaster and Farrell home and keep them away from the RWC.
DanW - MemberAs I understand it, the RFU don't pay his wages (at Bath) but contributed towards buying him out from the previous club which is supposed to be a significant amount.
I think the follow on from that was that the RFU don't have any say where Bath play him whereas if they were paying his wages (or a portion) then they could tell Bath to play him at centre.
What beggars belief is that when Bath agreed a loan deal with Toulon to bring Armitage for the season they would have paid his (considerable) wages and asked the RFU to include him in the EPS squad which would net them a £100k payment - the RFU refused.
Will Carling sums it up well:
'I'm in awe of Sam as a rugby league player, but there is no one that I have spoken to who I respect - ex-players, coaches - who thinks he's ready,''I don't understand what the rush is and it's unfair on him. I feel sorry for him. If he wants to make it in union, there's plenty of time.
'If you watched Burgess carefully he was out of position a huge amount in defence and England can't afford that against sides who will focus on him.
'He hasn't had time in the game. He doesn't understand where the ball is coming from and you can see that in the way his feet are when he lines up.
'The southern hemisphere boys will focus on him if he's playing. If Matt Giteau plays against him, he'll sucker him on for the big hit and opponents will be coming from angles he doesn't understand.'
Namastebuzz - no team has a divine right to win. Compared to where we were headed under the last regime I'm extremely happy with where we are going.
no team has a divine right to win.
No you're right and I'm glad that the dwarf-tossing era has passed too.
However, England have the players and the resources to win things so why haven't they?
Going into a home RWC they are only an outside bet. If the RWC was somewhere else they'd have no chance at all.
After 4 years of planning how can you give first caps to two centres in a half-baked warm up game and then parachute them into the RWC squad?
But, I'm glad someone is happier than me - because I'm not happy 😡
41 matches. 71 players used. 60% win record.
No 6N titles and a dismal record against the SH.
If you're happy with that - great!
These sort of comments do sum up why Lancaster is so risk a averse though dont they.
Look on the bright side the saviour of the welsh scrum is a ft bloke from Exeter with no caps at all!!
Look on the bright side the saviour of the welsh scrum is a ft bloke from Exeter with no caps at all!!
Indeed but as a Welsh fan you surely have to be more satisfied that your team gets reasonably close to its potential. Especially having a few Grand Slams/6N Titles in the locker.
I've often thought Wales are a few players away from being a bad team and England are a few players away from being a good team.
England are going to struggle. As some have pointed out above, the issue is the risk-averse nature of the England set-up, along with a lack of talent compared to the South Hemisphere sides.
Dropping Cips and picking Burgess is simply an odd decision. You can't switch codes overnight. Cips offered some creative spark in a side which lacks any creativity whatsoever.
The off-the-pitch antics also indicate a lack of respect from the players to the management. This is a worrying sign.
I agree the tournament is going to be very open. The South Hemisphere sides are still ahead of the rest although I'd take a gamble on Ireland at least reaching the semis, and potentially winning it as they have the best captain and coach.
I can't work out what they will do with Burgess. If he is an impact sub,they will be bringing him on after 50-60 mins when players are tiring and the concentration is slipping. That is surely a mistake as the players inside and outside him will have extra work to do to look after him. Any bets on at least one try in the group stages alone where he gets dog-legged?
England are going to struggle.
We're ****ed. I think Toms got the right starting XV;
Marler
Youngs
Cole
Lawes
Launchbury
Hask
Robshaw
Billy V
B Youngs
Ford
Watson
Joseph
Barritt
May
Brown
Well, sir Ian Mcgeechan believes Burgess justifies his selection, and should start against Fiji. Writing in today's telegraph.
I love a good set of rose tinted glasses. England have never had a glittering back division to rival the SH teams. The 2003 team was good, fit and well drilled, but not the All Blacks by a margin. Johnny Wilkinson - points machine, great tackler, but no Dan Carter. His stuttering feet made it really hard for those outside him to time a run, and his distance from hand was poor compared to his peers. Mike Tindall? A poor mans Sam Burgess!!!
So who is going to be inline to take Lancasters job when England bomb out of the WC. ??
If you go into the WC ranked 5th, and don't win it, why should you lose your job??? Let's not start a football merry go round.
England are not going to bomb out Lancaster is a good coach and home adv a very good pack and some decent backs. Quit worrying.
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Arrogant English cock. Shoild have cried in public and been a complete moaner like Adam Jones.
I thought Mallinder should have got it in the first place. Baxter has to be in with a shot too.
They won't jettison bomber though, he's just signed another contract. He needs a new backs/attack coach (cough greenwood cough). Let Farrell snr go back to sarries.
Quit worrying.
This. I sincerely believe England will have a better RWC than the rest of the home nations (France included).
anagallis_arvensis - MemberEngland are not going to bomb out Lancaster is a good coach and home adv a very good pack and some decent backs. Quit worrying.
Are you Max Boyce?
Look on the bright side, at least 12trees has gone home.
Look on the bright side, at least 12trees has gone home.
Yeah but he'll be the first one called up if any of the backs get injured......
Anyone else think home advantage will go against england, weight of expectation, media frenzy, someone will have to misbehave and get plastered on the front of the Sun.
someone will have to misbehave and get plastered on the front of the Sun.
I dunno, I think a lot of playing up is down to "tour" mentality which is inbuilt into rugby players. Being at home with their Gfs, wives etc not too far away will hopefully reign them in. Plus, there aren't any real mentalists in the squad.
I don't think you have to worry about a "media frenzy". The general public don't even know there is a WC coming and the publicity for it has been pretty low so far.
DanW - Member
I don't think you have to worry about a "media frenzy". The general public don't even know there is a WC coming and the publicity for it has been pretty low so far
Yeah, bit weird isn't it?
It starts 3 weeks today and I've seen no advertising at all. I don't even know which channel(s) is showing it.
However I do know that the new season of Dr Who starts at about the same time. I don't watch Dr Who. 😆
I'm guessing that after all the footie transfer window bolleaux dies down, the press might start to wind it up.
dantsw13 - Member
I'm guessing that after all the footie transfer window bolleaux dies down, the press might start to wind it up.
No chance.
So Lancaster is a big cry baby and Burgess is faster than all the other centres apart from Joeseph?
Over what distance? Roberts is pretty fast once he gets going but he doesnt have acceration or explosiveness and what I've seen of Burgess suggests he has even less. If he is that fast people should just tell him to run faster, that would help. Burgess v Roberts doesnt worry me. Slade v Roberts would. Whenever Roberts has been undone its been by smaller more agile players and distributors. He manshamed Sonny Bill for 50mins last autumn.
Burgess has no breakaway speed at all - you can tell that watching him in RL.
😆If he is that fast people should just tell him to run faster, that would help
Who knows what SL was referring to? He mentioned it as another reason to pick Burgess over Burrell. Maybe Andy Farrell was working the stop watches?
Roberts has been undone its been by smaller more agile players and distributors
If only England had a compact, super-agile 12 with amazing feet who was familiar with Ford and Joseph.......... 😕
Indeed, although its using passing and angles usually rather than quick feet. The aussies pull defences all over the place.
eastmond now????
Jeez. Are you a bath fan?
He isn't good enough.
I think Henry Paul and Barriejon Mather should be your centre pairing!!
Cips, obviously.
Well, I'm back in the UK, looking forward to Wales / Ireland later today.
Cips at 12? Roberts would murder him.
I think Henry Paul and Barriejon Mather should be your centre pairing!!
Or Shontayne Hape and Joel Tomkins. 😉
Burgess will be the new Andy Farrell. As hopeless as Farrell senior was on the field he must have brought something to the side/squad and he's held down his coaching spot so fair play to him.
I reckon Burgess will do well. Of course if England do not win the WC and Lancaster's plans do go down the toilet then Burgess be the reason in many peoples eyes!
The players Lancaster has NOT picked would make a decent team who would beat most others - sadly including Scotland who are quite frankly well below average.
oh....and Hartley will be back!
Farrel was a worn out wreck when he switched. Burgess is and will be much better! Hooker is what you should be worrying about.
Hooker is what you should be worrying about.
Might not be that bad if Ford carries on missing touch!
What channel is this on guys? Having trouble finding it from the US. Ta.
Wales game is Sky Sports 1 and watching happily from the arctic circle on Cricfree 😀
Cheers Dan, cricfree it is!
England will have watched that with glee.