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One place I worked for brought it in from having nothing. Instant 30% fail rate for class A drugs. Almsot mindblowing how prevalent drugs are in society. Let that sink in next time you see a big scaffold somewhere – nearly a third of the guys that built it were probably wasted.
Not strictly true, 30% had taken drugs recently enough that they were still detectable. Most places simply have a zero tolerance limit. So 30% isn't far off the 20% I quoted (obviously it varies by age group and other social or demographic factors) assuming most people who've used within the past year have probably also used recently (or at least within the window that they're detectable) and that most drugs are detectable in the test after you're no longer 'wasted' then it's also showing that 70% of the population aren't conforming to the narrative that drugs are endemic and normal.
Drug testing - some drugs can be detected for a long time in your system - cannabis for weeks IIRC. Others become indetectable very quickly
Not strictly true, 30% had taken drugs recently enough that they were still detectable.
The test kit we used was calibrated to detect the use of cannabis, opiates, methadone and alcohol with the previous 24hours or less. Cocaine, amphetamines and diazapan for a couple of days. Alcohol you had to be a bit pissed at the time of test. This wasn't trying to catch out someone that had had a joint 2 weeks ago, it was folk actively using drugs. If you failed you were either a bit wasted or had been wasted the night/day before. Either way enough that you shouldn't be with a mile of the stuff on that site. It's quite a thing to be taking meth the night before you turn up to do some coded welding!
Some pre employment checks for permanent employees may use more rigorous methods.
nearly a third of the guys that built it were probably wasted.
No, nearly a third had trace amounts in their system which is a long way from wasted. Class A's tend to get expelled fairly quickly (a few days) whilst weed can be present weeks after use.
People want to get high
Some people, maybe most people, but not all. I have never had the desire to get high.
Good for you but it was pretty obvious TJ was making a statement about the population in general.
I can’t be the only one that thinks you are seriously overreacting to this? Getting a bit of weed and coke and sharing around few mates is dealing? Nuts, that’s just how it works.
It works like that when you've seen it from the inside, if you haven't then it's easy to be an absolutist about it. I wouldn't call it dealing and the scale of it was what I based my assumption of the police/CPS not being overly bothered on. IANAL
If nothing else ths thread is a great insight into people's inability to deal with facts and refuse to accept them even when presented by those who know more about the subject matter than they do. People are being honest and speaking from experience and folk are still sticking their fingers in their ears and repeating "nope" over and over. I'd be shocked but Brexit happened already.
Then it’s a reasonable extrapolation that >30% (probably by a significant margin) of young people don’t infact “want to get high”.
The other extrapolation from that is that 70% do..whether drugs or alcohol(same difference tbh). That's being simplistic though.
What is true is, it's a simple part of life for a fair old chunk tbh.
tbh I suspect most of you haven't a clue what your kids get up to. The piousness of this thread makes that kinda obvious, imo.
It works like that when you’ve seen it from the inside
Well yes, that was my point. If you're in that 'group' then your perception is that everyone is doing it. if you're in the other 4/5ths of the population on the other hand....
it was pretty obvious TJ was making a statement about the population in general.
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If nothing else ths thread is a great insight into people’s inability to deal with facts and refuse to accept them even when presented
You said it yourself. The "fact" is that no, the "population in general isn't doing it, not by a massive margin.
The other extrapolation from that is that 70% do
Except that the statistic underneath the bit you quoted showed that 80% don't.
Anyway, we've dragged this off topic, my point was simply to counter those that were making out that drug use was supposed to be normal and that somehow everyone was doing it when the stat's simply don't back that up in the slightest.
Tinas - drug use includes alcohol, coffee, tea, chocolate, cigarettes
tjagain
Member
Tinas – drug use includes alcohol, coffee, tea, chocolate, cigarettes
This is the curious thing is that that isn't included in people minds. I think it's nuts that the boy is getting taken to the police for being the supply point for a few friend (read the only guy that knows where to purchase, it's a million miles away from dealing), but if he was the one that looked old enough to get served in the offies attitudes would be wildly different.
I'm not promoting drug use btw, I just think the approach here is wrong. The idea of taking the boy mtbing and doing things, and in general separating him from that side of his social life would be much more successful if approached in a non confrontational manner, imo. I just don't see much benefit from the confrontational approach. More likely to drive the boy away.
Just an opinion, I may well be wrong, hope I am.
There is a lot of taking stuff to extremes on this thread but not IMO by the OP
Tinas - I did not say the population in general do it and its normal. I sad ever human society has drugs that are used and that there seems to be this desire / need to get high in every human society right back to the beginning - even some animals do it. That is a simple statement of fact and one anyone looking at ths situation needs to work wit. Otherwise you get the ridiculous arguments used that all kids know are nonsense so it makes it much harder to get reasonable anti drug arguments heard.
So to say " all drugs are bad and if you smoke a few spliffs next year you will be a homeless junky" is such nonsense on one will listen
Whereas if you say " smoking a few spliffs might well make you into a really boring dopehead, it will probably eff up your schoolwork" or " do you realise how much of an areshole coke makes you"its a much more realistic message that might just get thru
People want to get high
Some people, maybe most people, but not all. I have never had the desire to get high.
Good for you but it was pretty obvious TJ was making a statement about the population in general.
It was rather vague, it is worth at times writing what you mean clearly and accurately.
Whereas if you say ” smoking a few spliffs might well make you into a really boring dopehead, it will probably eff up your schoolwork” or ” do you realise how much of an areshole coke makes you”its a much more realistic message that might just get thr
tbh promoting moderation and a sensible approach to drug use is a far better use of your energies than scaremongering. While promoting other alternate activities.
If he's going to take them, he's going to take them. The cat is out the bag, he's involved. Best he does it sensibly and it doesn't become his only "hobby".
It was rather vague, it is worth at times writing what you mean clearly and accurately.
I thought it was pretty clear, "societys use xyz" never means every one in a society does, only that its prevalent. I'd say 20% uptake of anything would make it prevalent.
Regarding statistics, when it comes to alchol and drug use people lie. Just with alchol we somehow manage to buy twice as much as we claim to drink 😁. Now ask that question about drug use 🤔
It was clear what TJ posted to me as well.
Anyway, good luck OP.
Tjagain: If we had sensible drug laws Leah Betts would not have died. The drugs did not kill her. Her and her friends ignorance and unwillingness to seek help killed her.
Tj I respect your opinion, but you do state things as fact, when they clearly are not. Leah Betts is far from the only death from ecstasy, I have seen people die from it myself back in the late 80’s it was tragic. The idea that people knowing what to do in the event something goes wrong reduces all risk, is clearly (to me at least) nonsense.
I was talking about one specific case. Leah Betts
And she was used as the anti ecstasy poster girl “her first time ended up like this”. In fact she had taken it before and actually died of hyponatremia (spelling?).
This is why better education/truth is needed, when the example of “drugs are bad m’kay” is false. This leads users to not believe what they are told.
How many drug deaths are actually due to the cutting agents they are mixed with?
It was clear what TJ posted to me as well.
It was clear what Tj posted to me too, and it wasn’t what everyone else thought. Anyway, even I think I’m sounding like an argumentative knob (really not my intention) - so I’ll shut up for a while.
Hoping things take a turn for the better for the OP, as I would not want to trade places.
Anyway, even I think I’m sounding like an argumentative knob (really not my intention) – so I’ll shut up for a while.
Hoping things take a turn for the better for the OP, as I would not want to trade places.
This I can agree with 100%
( I am risking being an argumentative so and so )
Have Half Man Half Biscuit launched a takeover (ref: Rusty's tattoo thread) - or have they just got a song for everything
” do you realise how much of an areshole coke makes you”
Going through a similiar thing just now with my son. Its not so much the having the odd joint which bothers me. My son left school a few months back and has up and until recently done jack shit to find a job thinking a basic college course would suffice. I was at him all the time to get a part time job and do the course and id stay off his back.
I've always been honest about what I did in my youth but reinforced I was slightly older and was working part time from 11 and full time from 16 and probably didnt start dabbling till 17 or so. My younger years involved heading up and down the country going to raves etc and times have certainly changed. I think most parents would be shocked to see what is posted on apps like snapchat in your local area with regards to whats being sold.
Anyhoo after a few applications and being pushed my son starts a apprentice stonemasons job on monday and Im hoping the long days at work and earning some money will see him buckle down . I dont mind him going out after a week of work and enjoying himself on a friday and saturday night with or without a smoke or drink , Its the lying in bed all day and playing fifa all night whilst smelling of Ganja that has done my head in.
tbh promoting moderation and a sensible approach to drug use
For some, like my earlier examples on the thread, the sensible approach is abstinence as they don't have the capacity for them. We could go all hardcore and educate and then let them rot if after all the info they get ****ed up.
That may not be very compassionate but it is one way of dealing with it. We could leave all the damaged ones on Skye (other islands are available) with a monthly food delivery, power and heat and let them get on with it.
Exile on Skye? Yes please. I'll be up for a big dose of that.
Can I pretend to be off my box to get across the bridge?
We could leave all the damaged ones on Skye (other islands are available
Let’s not spoil Skye. More apt location would be the Isle of Sheppey. And arrange for a litre accident with the SS Montgomery that’s wrecked nearby.
I thought Inchkeith would be a good bet. close enough to Edinburgh so that it could be supplied easily. too far to swim to land from.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that for jonseyboy’s son.
I thought Inchkeith would be a good bet. close enough to Edinburgh so that it could be supplied easily. too far to swim to land from.
Well at least its not Fife, that would just be draconian.
So a few weeks down the line, he's not moaning about 6pm Curfew and is coming straight home from school and not bothering to go out. Weekends are a little more interesting as he wants to go and see his mates. With advise from outreach workers and Young Addaction he's allowed out for 4-6 hrs with good behaviour, but has to meet us mid point to check he's not out of his skull.
He's got access to very limited money and when he does have money ie for barbers then he has to bring a receipt or he's grounded for another week. So far he's not brought a receipt home so he's had a couple of weeks of being housebound.
I've asked him about doing drugs tests to keep him off the stupid stuff and he said ok.
I've just picked up his iphone from the police, it's horrible looking through the messages again. I want to put a spy app on there just to check for the next few months sporadically. I own his phone and pay the contract so technically this is legal. Anyone advice on ios spy apps, I'm looking at mspy at the moment.
Once this is on his phone I'll be happier about letting him out for short periods of time, but the trust is going to take a long time to regain, and he's 17 in sept so we need him to have freedom again for his sake and our sanity.
He did sneak out and come back stoned 1hr later on Saturday, but has been grounded for the week, he's also still seeing Sven, the young addaction counsellor.
Mock results were not as good as expected, but maybe he just needed to flunk them and have a kick up the arse. Homework is generally good and on time.
Thank STW for easing my stress through this, It's been incredibly supportive which after surviving the redundancy, recession, separation, and finally this. We're not done yet, but there are again plenty of positives.
Maybe time to bring some reward to show him not being a stoner actually has its advantages
Whilst sitting around all night getting off your face is hilarious fun and , might , or might not lead to long term mental issues, its better all round if he isnt doing that
He's agreed to the terms and punishments so , much like training a dog , give him something he will appreciate
If thats 4 mates round for a day of FIFA , followed by a Nando's and Dads taxi home then its easy really , Everest base camp hike , not so easy
I have no idea what the yoof actually want to do or look forwards to that isnt based around sex, drugs and alcohol
Keep on at it though
Sounds good, that he's begun to accept your boundaries and control. Is the relationship improving? Sounds like it is. Terrifies me this stuff, especially how hard it is to maintain the balance between reality and what you want for your kids, which is always the best of things.
I would say, think REALLY long and hard before installing a spy app. If he's agreeing to drug tests, seeing the councillor and generally behaving, does this get you much more? It does have the potential to massively backfire. For a start, you'll see a whole load of stuff that isn't relevant to your problem but could be uncomfortable reading. And if he finds out, as a volatile teenager, I think it would push him away from you. He needs to trust your opinions and experience as an adult. Why would he trust someone who spies on him?
Sounds like you’re making some good progress that’s great news.
Fwiw, I think you've done amazingly well with all this, no idea how I'd cope. Seem to have escaped it with my 16 year old
My daughter is 13. Last night one of the mum's at gymnastics said how lovely and polite she is. I know from this thread and others how that can change. I made sure she knew how proud of her I am of her and gave her a big hug.
I’ve just picked up his iphone from the police, it’s horrible looking through the messages again. I want to put a spy app on there just to check for the next few months sporadically. I own his phone and pay the contract so technically this is legal.
What would stop him buying a cheap PAYG phone to use if you did this?
Brill news.
I agree its reward time now. Nothing major as towing the line is an expectation not something to be rewarded in its self
Certainly nothing that touches the boundaries you've set clearly like money or time out etc.
Just something to acknowledge the effort, a favourite takeaway, cinema, bowling or something.
Well we seem to have turned a corner a little, he's still smoking weed which I'd rather be didn't, but with limited funds and the current lock down his wings have been clipped a little.
He did two nights work as a KP in a pub which he blew the money on weed, but actually seemed to mature a lot from working with more mature folk. Then Corona hit...
Keeping him busy with Lego, Xbox, films and I'm trying to get him back on the bike a little. He's happy to do drugs tests still, and I think I've convinced him to enjoy life, go to sixth form, delay work as long as you can and have some fun. He fluffed his mocks but has been having good results in his classwork so fingers crossed.
Who'd have thought that a global pandemic would have helped the situation.... Every cloud had a silver lining.
Just hope he doesn't go nuts when we come out of this isolation! As always guys, a problem shared is a problem halved, thanks for being there and keep safe x
Weed can bring forward a psychotic experience that may or may not happen. But many things can also trigger psychosis, from environmental, stress, trauma, grief. There's arguments both sides but it's worth noting that schizophrenia diagnosis has remained fairly constant but weed use has dramatically increased. It's no more a gateway drug than water is a gateway drug to whisky. But at that age the brain is still developing and won't be fully developed until mid 20s. Is there any history of mental illness in the family? I think it's a large part of youth culture even more than 25 years ago when I smoked but skunk was expensive and we jusy had squidgy black or rasta brick weed mostly. I did enjoy it bavk then but tolerance builds up and it becomes habitual rather than a fun session after a night out. It's an experimental phase that many go through. Just be sensible with him and trust him.
His mum struggles with anxiety and depression, and get mother has mental health issues. We've talked to him about it, and so has his counsellor.
This is normal, but watch the group he is with.
Express disapproval rather than anger.
It's been a while since I last updated. Things have taken a turn for the worst. He's now under a social worker and a CCE program. He's desperate to have his phone back, but that will mean an in road for the dealers again.
Starting sixth form, no phone, most of his friends at Tec on vocational courses, and also no phone we have no idea where he is or contacting him at times, but give him a phone and Snapchat well mean the door to dealing is there.
Anyone recommend a phone or suggest software we can put on an iPhone to lock it down and monitor the phone?
If you don't know where he is, what's to stop him just buying a £20 burner phone and PAYG SIM as soon as he's out of sight?
Exactly. You literally cannot win this.
I have young boys and when they get to teenagers I hope they don't smoke weed. I did and it for 5+ years and it is a waste of time and money (imo!)
If I was in your situation I would just let him smoke it. Give him curfews and days when he is not allowed out so he's not smoking every day but basically let him do it. Most people on this thread have!
Perhaps another option (which admittedly I know nothing about) is a CBD drops/inhaler? If stress/ anxiety really is a thing then maybe it might replace the weed?
learn how to make cookies together. Sounds like you've lost the weed battle, get him off the smoking.
If I was in your situation I would just let him smoke it.
learn how to make cookies together. Sounds like you’ve lost the weed battle, get him off the smoking.
Smoking a bit of weed isn't the problem, read back a little.
... and having just taken my own advice,
Anyone recommend a phone or suggest software we can put on an iPhone to lock it down and monitor the phone?
This thread is 10 months old and you asked this question fully eight months ago. If he's in his late teens and you need to know his location that badly then he doesn't need an iPhone, he needs an ankle bracelet.
I feel for you, I really do. I don't know what I'd do in your situation, I think maybe I'd be entertaining moving to the other end of the country to sever his physical ties and immediate influences. Either that or more robust approaches, nicey nicey clearly isn't working. It's a perfect storm, it's hard enough being an emotion-dumped teenager all other things being normal.
I'm picking my battles, smoking weed and fags I can cope with and hopefully he'll grow out of it. The larger much more dangerous issue is that he's been groomed into dealing and threatened.
The dealers told him he'd run up a £2k debt, he was shot scared and after a lot of deliberating I paid it off. He's been under house arrest since with no phone.
We've passed the details and 250 screen shots of his snapchat account to the police, details of deals, dealers phone numbers, burner phone etc.
It's how we allow him to communicate with his true friends and not the dealers, Snapchat is a vile piece of software. At the moment we're thinking of a new dumb phone so he can text only. Other things I've got to consider is that he needs a laptop for sixth form. Technology has moved on since I was au fait with it all!