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mintimperial - I think the Peak District thing is a confusion with National Trust byelaws perhaps
But even that isnt clear. In my mind all the below says is that you cannot cycle where it is not authorised. how do you know what is and is not authorised?
Driving, Parking and Mooring of Conveyances
11. (a) No unauthorised person shall:
(i) Moor, park or leave on Trust Property any conveyance except in mooring sites or parking places provided by the National Trust.
(ii) Leave any conveyance between sunset and sunrise in any parking place on Trust Property.
(iii) Ride or drive any conveyance over or upon Trust Property otherwise than upon roads, tracks and waterways authorised for the use of such conveyance.
(iv) Use any part of Trust Property in connection with any race, hill climb, rally,regatta, or other similar function involving the use of any conveyance.
(b) No person shall ride or drive any conveyance to the danger or annoyance of or without due consideration for other persons resorting to Trust Property.
Note: In this Byelaw “conveyance” includes any air, land or watercraft vehicle or machine other than wheelchairs and perambulators. Subparagraphs (i) and (ii) of paragraph (a) shall have no application to pedal cycles.
ahwiles - a specific bylaw i thought...
As did I but as I said, I could only find it referring to parkland and that parkland had been defined in another document meaning it couldnt be uised as an all encompasing term. Ironically it bans you from cycling in Bolehills
Lots of footpaths around here were obviously used for transporting materials by horse and are nice and wide and robust and for those I say fair game as long as you do so respectfully but the same should be so for bridleways, just exercise a bit more caution and be aware at certain times they will be busy with walkers. Others are not suitable but it may be the only way somewhere and very little used so UAE discretion and extreme care.
A couple of weeks ago I got stick behind a group of elderly walkers on a rocky downhill bridleway. I waited behind them patiently, taking breaks and catching up only when it was wide enough to get passed without worried them. One old lady did comment "are you sure you should be riding here?" To which is said "yes it's a bridleway" with a big grin on my face which made my friend following behind chuckle.
yep (cheeky sensibly/considerately)
handy in winter when bridleways are overhorsed and it just opens up so many more areas and routes (bridleway is only about 22% of total tracks in Eng+Wal)
But even that isnt clear. In my mind all the below says is that you cannot cycle where it is not authorised. how do you know what is and is not authorised?
Yeah. I suppose if you repeatedly razzed along something of theirs with massive "NO CYCLING" signs on it after being asked not to, that bit of text would make it easier to bollock you officially. If you're not being a dick about it though I doubt the NT would want to pay a load of lawyers to do anything about the odd bit of cycling on footpaths up in the hills.
andyl - To which is said "yes it's a bridleway" with a big grin on my face which made my friend following behind chuckle.
Wrong answer, you should have said "I can ride any right of way I like but if its a footpath I must leave if asked by the landlord or the land owner's representative".
Excluding random by-laws cycles are not banned from footpaths, they just don't have protection to be there.
Everyone needs educating on this matter, especially cyclists.
We have the ridiculous situation where long-standing rights of way change designation to accommodate the whims of the locals i.e. a bridleway becomes a footpath for half-a-mile and reverts back to a bridleway. The MOD subject to their own bylaws are now trying to enforce the rule of access after 25 years of doing nothing on what is effectively common land, deliberately barriering-off RoW and yet allow motorbike enduros for 200+ bikes that cut new trails and churn every other into a muddy mess. Less issue with locals than the bobble-hat brigade who can be confrontational and ill-informed rather than simply steping aside for a second. Had an angler with all his gear blocking the towpath telling me I didn't own the path too.
.Wrong answer, you should have said "I can ride any right of way I like but if its a footpath I must leave if asked by the landlord or the land owner's
It's not really a wrong answer, I was on a bridleway. I could have taken the long winded line you quote but I will save that for when I am footpaths and travelling slow enough to get all that out without stopping!
andyl - It's not really a wrong answer, I was on a bridleway. I could have taken the long winded line you quote but I will save that for when I am footpaths and travelling slow enough to get all that out without stopping!
Ok, maybe not the wrong answer but it reinforces the idea that if you should be there because its a bridleway then perhaps you should not be on footpaths.
Access on MOD land can be mad. There's a section of the Imber Range Path that is a ~8m wide concrete road - tanks could easily pass each other on it. There's also a bridleway right of way along it, except for a ~0.5km section that's a footpath. Presumably the paperwork is too much to make it all bridleway and it's easier to just divert cyclists onto the busy main road!
I once found an awesome cheeky near Grizedale. It has everything; seamed-jagged rock off camber, drops to hardpack, loose earth etc. I'm sworn to secrecy 8)
I do so knowingly sometimes, with judgement where it's a good trail and quiet. I wouldn't plan a route including one if I hadn't ridden it before though. I especially hate it when BWs just stop nowhere or turn into FPs. A lot of the cheeky stuff I ride is stuff in woodland that isn't a RoW, and I reckon it's fair game to ride a trail if it's not clear what it is. I do avoid the paths with 'no cycling' signs or obvious 'footpath' finger posts, it's just inviting someone to win an argument if you do meet them!
The whole system of access rights is crap though, and i'm not going to stick rigidly to inappropriate rules or wait around for them to change.
I prefer the word path if you please.
I do on the commute to work, in fairness it's only around half a mile and never had any problems with the locals, all smile and do the morning and evening greeting, and only because other road users seem to be complete halfwits who try their hardest to wheelchair me
Awh, could you email me details of that... Only I am at the MOD national access forum on behalf of CTC and OpenMTB later this month, and will bring it up. 😀
Labrat dot IMBA@gmail.com
Dovebiker, presume you are talking Surrey? if so, then there are discussions ongoing, but laborious, if somewhere else, let me know.
Weirdly enough I just got back from a ride, at the end of which I had the first "This is a public footpath you know!" in years and years, from a knackered looking red-faced old bloke carrying a bag full of clinking bottles. I was a bit ****ed so without thinking I replied "Yeah whatever mate," to which he responded "COME BACK HERE AND SAY THAT!" and then some other shouty stuff I didn't catch because I was going WHEEEE! down the rest of the hill by that point. I didn't see if he was shaking his fists, with little clouds of steam coming out of his ears, but it definitely sounded that way.
Some people are so angry about everything all the time, it must be very wearing for them. They should try going for a ride on some cheeky footpaths, it always seems to cheer me up. 😀
Has this link been posted yet?
http://www.ctc.org.uk/article/campaigns-guide/cycling-on-footpath-trespass
I tend to ride where it's safest and that's usually the path. Unless the path is busy then i'll pop onto the road until it clears. Always have, always will.
Yes, I ride footpaths, I also have a super cheeky golf course bit I ride. Lovely berms and drops 😳
Footpaths yes, footways no.
More on the topic of bez's post I have as similar although not as servere, I ride to work along an old railway line. Any rain and it it a very muddy ride even with full guards. Even with commuting tyres I get more punctures than I did riding in London. It's no wonder people don't consider it for utility cycling.
Ok, maybe not the wrong answer but it reinforces the idea that if you should be there because its a bridleway then perhaps you should not be on footpaths.
I think you are reading too much into it. The term footpath never came up.
After nearly hitting a granny from racing around a corner and braking like rabbit in heat, then hearing the granny scream and tell me off.
So lucky I didn't hit her.
I haven't cycled on paths since I was 8 years old.
Instead I have had pedestrians walk out on to the road at the last second, crashed into them. Nearly took one of the to court after breaking my neck.
Me, I've come to the conclusion that I'll ride responsibly to minimise my impact which means im going where is appropriate to the ground conditions and how busy it is. Mainly i look for quiet routes, rocky or hard packed footpaths get ridden all year but if they're busy I'll try to avoid peak times, muddy footpaths and bridleways get ridden only when they've dried out.
Round here it's dog walkers, always dog walkers trying to spoil things and assert that bikes are not allowed. They are correct but they should just calm down.
I've ridden one path near me, resurfaced and not exciting but preferable to the tarmac alternative. I've ridden it 4 times in the last 2-3 weeks, and on 3 of those rides a different dog walker each time has taken exception.
Round here the dog walkers are usually wrong, it's usually an unmarked path that neither of us has a right of way on... they never like being told this though 🙂
Course I do. Not in a touristy area on a warm day, but otherwise course I do.
Ride wherever, don't be a knob, shrug and speak french if challenged by a rambler. Job's a good un.
Yep, loads.
maybe get told off once every two/three years.
South Downs NP have made some remarkable discoveries this week:
ridelikeadoper - MemberHas this link been posted yet?
http://www.ctc.org.uk/article/campaigns-guide/cycling-on-footpath-trespass
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I stick to this rule
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/72
The highways act of 1835, (25 years before the original "Boneshaker" cycle was invented) states
"[i]If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers; or shall wilfully lead or drive any horse, ass, sheep, mule, swine, or cattle or carriage of any description, or any truck or sledge, upon any such footpath or causeway; or shall tether any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle, on any highway, so as to suffer or permit the tethered animal to be thereon;."[/i]
No mention of cycles on footpaths, your honour...
if my wheels won't sink into it I will use it to ride.
and I will especially use a footpath if it skips a set of traffic lights.
I trust all of us do, discreetly and courteously, never in large numbers and not in tourist hotspots on bank holidays. The law is an ass and needs to be changed - of that we're all agreed.
Never have issues with horse riders and all the locals I meet on foot are affable - attitude is everything as are first impressions?
I stick to this rule
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/72No mention of cycles on footpaths, your honour...
Hmm, not sure what you're trying to say there - That rule refers specifically to 'footpaths by the side of roads' (Which are better referred to as 'footways' for clarity as opposed to 'footpath' as in 'Public Footpath')
but theres no doubt at all that the definition "carriage of any description" within the 1835 act applies to bicycles, as Section 85(1) of the Local Government Act 1888 provides that:
"… Bicycles, tricycles, velocipedes, and other similar machines are hereby declared to be carriages within the meaning of the Highway Acts"
First rule of Footpath Club.
Rorschach - MemberFirst rule of Footpath Club.
Where's the Like button?
ACPO guidlines a few years ago (I'm a bit out of date) suggest that whilst cycling on footpaths of footways is an offence, officers should look at the manner of the cycling.
I sometimes gently cycle along pedestrianised areas near me, at walking pace and haven't ever been stopped, even when police are near.
They could offer an FPN, which 'could' be contested in court as to be in contravention of ACPO guidlines.
Naturally, it's never got that far 😉
ACPO doesn't even exist anymore.
I trust all of us do, discreetly and courteously, never in large numbers and not in tourist hotspots on bank holidays.
You haven't come across the Bogtrotters have you, they seem to make a point of riding in the opposite manner even if better legal trails exist to their destination (ok, I don't think they are rude but you get the gist)
As far as I was aware, it's down to the landowner to prove that you set out to deliberately cause damage in a civil matter...they can ask for your name and address, so as to take further action, but you don't have to give it.
The police can ask for your details, and you have to give them, but they are not allowed to tell the landowner, as you haven't committed a criminal act.
Footways, on the other hand, are illegal to ride on, I think?
Observe the main rule of life, and don't be a twunt.....
What are the legal ramifications if there is a No cycling sign at the start of the footpath?
a proper legal one (red circle) then there is a bylaw in place. These only tend to be alleyways and parks. Illegal to ride and enforcable. A hand written note I suppose means you don't have the landowners permission but it'll just be a civil offence and the worst you'll get is shouted at. Cheeky trail rules apply.What are the legal ramifications if there is a No cycling sign at the start of the footpath?
What are the legal ramifications if there is a No cycling sign at the start of the footpath?
About the same as one saying "trespassers will be prosecuted" 😆
"The police can ask for your details, and you have to give them"
You don't. Unless you are arrested or being reported for an offence.
Ah, I thought I'd get something muddled up!
It's ok. I think we're all learning stuff today. 😀