I think the Pioneer is unique in being able to use it as 2 power meters isn't it?
I *think* you can do that with a pair of vectors as well?
@Dan, if I had cranks that worked with P2M yes, but I don't as per my post above, hence having to fork out for those as well, meaning the extra cost to upgrade.
Cost for me to upgrade my 10 speed sram force re-using what I have where possible:
Stages = £360ish, P2M = £850ish, Quarq = £850ish, Vectors = £850
What I am heading toward is P2M SRAM Force 22 which seems like a similar upgrade to you. As in my post above that comes out ~£630 for everything. Sure P2M won't be for everyone but that seems pretty exceptional value for a "dual" sided PM and chainset that you can get L/R data out of (unlike low end Quarq). Vector 2 would be next on the list
I *think* you can do that with a pair of vectors as well?
Nah, fairly sure the LH one is the 'master'.
I'm thinking Powertap P1 at the moment. I like the idea of Vectors, as I've got an Edge 1000, but it seems all the pedalling dynamics stuff is interesting at face value and nothing more. I'm not sure the extra cost and faff versus P1s is worth it.
I *think* you can do that with a pair of vectors as well?
Nah, fairly sure the LH one is the 'master'.
I had a bit of a faff adding a new pedal to my existing pedal, and at one point I did seem to end up with the RH one working independently. So maybe it is possible.
Each pedal has an unique ANT ID and you associate one with the other using the Vector pedal app. You then use the RH pedal ANT ID when you pair with the head unit. So maybe the RH is the master.
FWIW, right now, I'd go P2M. But then I like the Rotor cranks.
Well first ever issue with the Vectors yesterday. Unclipped at a junction towards the end of my ride, then when I clipped back in and rode off the reported power was seriously low. Noticed the power balance values had gone to 0%-100% so it had lost the power from the left pedal 👿
Not had a chance to investigate yet but all a bit curious.
sounds a bit like my power balance at the moment 😆
Interesting, which one did it drop, the new one or the old? (I can't remember which is the "master")
As we're talking about problems I rode with a guy yesterday (TOB stage so lots of standing about) who was having major problems with his new Rotor inPower PM, he was averaging something dumb like 800W for the ride haha!
I suggested it could actually be the Garmin as he'd recently updated it but he's yet to experiment as obviously, he only owns one Garmin! He's talking about sending the whole lot back and getting a P2M, said he'd fancied one anyway but was won over on the Rotor as he could get it straight away. He was obviously very happy to hear I've had no problems with my P2M and that battery last about a year...
Was the older left one. Reported error code is a comms failure between left and right pedal. Right one is the master. Sounds like the solution is to take battery out and reset it all 😕
Sounds like there are a lot of issues with the 3.5 firmware. Bit annoying really as I only upgraded because I had to in order to pair the pedals.
Yeah that sucks, do you ride with balance on the screen all the time? I'd kinda feel like I had to on these "dual" PM's just as a guard against spurious readings.
It's on my second page view, mostly as I've been playing around with cleat shims and was curious to know what it did to my power balance.
Spotted all the pedalling dynamics stuff come up in the summary too, power phases etc.. Looks interesting and keep meaning to have a rummage about the data but no idea what I'd actually do with it!
My power balance is 52/48 now, the thing is the P2M is utterly basic so I'm always left wondering whether my left leg is actually stronger or my pedalling action is just better/smoother from my right leg. Personally I "feel" like my right leg is just more efficient and kicks around the bottom of the stroke better. It's always my left knee that's wonky/sore too so is this 'cos its working harder or just as it's crap...
It'd certainly be interesting messing about with their Pedalling Dynamics but from what I've read it's completely half arsed on Connect?
Also, new PM review on DCR.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/09/favero-depth-review.html
BePro sounds pretty good.
You might know that P2M isn't measuring right/left independently, so it's just a guess at left right based on total power using some modelling around typical pedal strokes. Wouldn't really be picking up on some of the subtleties you've described. Would need something like the Vectors for this.
I've not gone near Garmin Connect for a few years now. Can't still be as bad as it was... can it?
Ya, it's a poor guess at a left/right balance based on the 12-6 o'clock position, basically the only reason I want a go on Vectors is just to figure out which way I'm wonky, at the end of the day though it'd just be an interesting exercise opposed to a useful one.
Has there been any news when stages will do a xt m8000 crankarm?
I know how I'm wonky. It's interesting to be able to see the effects of changes to address that wonkiness 🙂
My left leg is about 1cm longer than my right, and power balance is fairly consistently 45/55. Trying just a 3mm shim under the right cleat and it seems to be more around 48/52 with overall power up a tiny bit too. Quite surprising really.
Has there been any news when stages will do a xt m8000 crankarm?
just use a reduced XT/XTR M780/M785/M980/M985
That is interesting! Did you notice the length discrepancy yourself or through a bike fit? I've tried measuring mine myself using the legs at 90degrees against a wall method and they look bang on...probably aren't though haha!
It's incredibly helpful the Vectors have decided to crap out while you're experimenting 🙄
Been mentioned in a few physio sessions over the years, but I was mostly running at the time. Just having some more physio for a back problem and it got mentioned again and the therapist recommended trying some cleat shims.
Hopefully it's just a minor hiccup with the Vectors. Never had any problem with the single sided ones, or before the 3.5 upgrade.
P1s are top of my list still I reckon, do like the ease of swapping, and although the geekery of Vectors appeals I'm just not that sure it's really of much use (cleat tweaking aside).
Seems a bit lame that Vector/BePro want a couple of rides to 'bed in' post fitting. Not much use if you swap often.
I'd definitely go for P2M... or Quarq... or P1... or Pioneer... 😕
Haha! I want a Shimano chainset, because I like the aesthetics. P1s are easier than Pioneer to move between bikes, and I can get them at trade price. Wins it for me I reckon. Ask in a week and it'll change.
Ask in a week and it'll change.
... and no matter how many people are fan bois of any one PM they all seem to have their "quirks"
Yep. Unsurprising I guess, otherwise we'd have a hugely dominant player. Successive new arrivals appear to look like the perfect solution, then something lets them down (looking at you still 4iiii).
Na, you need an SRM in your life Njee...even with the absurd price and a non user replaceable battery you can't deny it's a work of art compared to most PM's! Weirdly I like the look of the SRM Dura-Ace over the standard crank.
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Bargain at £2000 😀 Love the 7900 era and more old school SRM's too
Just swapped back to Shimano from Keo, would have Vectors in a flash if they were big S cleat compatible.
Where's the best deal for Vectors at the moment, £860 @ bikediscount.de seems pretty good?
Nice little update if you've discounted Pioneer because of frame interference issues.
Where's the best deal for Vectors at the moment, £860 @ bikediscount.de seems pretty good?
£861 at Powermeter24 too so sounds like the best price they are likely to be. PM24 and BikeDiscount have both been great to deal with so take your pick 😀
Well the vectors behaved impeccably on today's ride. Hopefully just a glitch.
Out of interest, on a couple of hours of z2/z3 with a few hill sprints thrown in...
L/R balance was 47/53
Pedal smoothness 21%-26%
Torque effectiveness 74%-80%
Right avg power phase 353-220
Right avg power phase peak 68-120
Left avg power phase 13-214
Left avg power phase peak 63-113
I really must find out what most of that means! 🙂
Useless wivooot pitchuurez!
That's just from the 810. I think I need to load it into garmin connect to get the pretty cycling dynamics pictures.
Hit go on some Powertap P1s... Out of stock until November! Sure things will have changed by then as well!
Blimey, must be pretty popular. Trade price?
Some more info on the Pioneer...
Not a bad deal, and being able to upgrade to a dual sided later on is a nice way of spreading the cost a bit. Still it now looks a bit pricey compared to some of the competition (e.g. P2M.)
Don't actually know the trade price, £700ish I'm guessing.
Pioneer does look good, not sure I'd go for the single leg option though. If nothing else just buy a double and split it with a friend
880 quid at Wiggle, which is actually pretty good.
Clever Training looked cheapest with the DCR discount if you've got a U.S. shipping address. At the end of the day it's just a way of quantifying my mediocrity because I like data, I can wait!
If I only had the left side Id have a voice inside my head constantly saying "buy the right side, buy the right side"
Another hat in the ring...
Alpha testing so wouldn't hold my breath.
Has anyone tried the INPower unit yet?
Is it any good?
Broke last night, ordered a cheap rival stages from Merlin. Confident in merlins customer service in case I have problems, I'll train with left side only next season and if I'm really getting the benefit and using the numbers I'll buy one of the dual sided pedal systems that I can swap between bikes. Hopefully in 12 months or so prices of dual systems will have come right down
By that time you may well be able to get the other side of the stages and pair them up!
Who knows! Certainly interesting watching all the developments. Bet they drop the prices further in the next month or so now I've actually bought a power meter.
Didn't seem to be any real news out of Eurobike/Interbike, so not sure.
Had to warranty my ultegra stages got new one this morning of the new type. The battery cover has finally done away with those terrible tabs that kept breaking off. It's a new system & you place the battery in the cover before you put the cover on. It's way more streamlined too. The connection points for the battery in its housing seem much deeper & further away from the door. FWIW I always found the problems with my stages wasn't water ingress but the door & those tabs when replacing batteries, they were top of the 'made of cheese' league.
I recently got a stage gxp from merlin £365 - buzzin...why spend more?
