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My CX bike has very old Shimano Tiagra 2x10 shifters plus TRP Spyres cable-operated disc brakes which require constant adjustment to provide adequate stopping power*
The bike doesn't warrent throwing a ton of money at it but I need more powerful, less finicky brakes so was considering TRP HY-RD brakes with existing shifters
*I weigh ~90kg and live in a hilly place, and having just witnessed a horrific accident that occurred when another riders TRP Spyres failed following a long, wet, gritty, fast gravel descent has made more a bit cautious about my current brakes...
So, are they any good assuming replacing shifters with hydro brakes is too expensive??
Giant Conduct would be my preference as it keeps all the mechanical gubbins well out of the way mud/road grime and they also have a much shorter cable run before the hydro conversion, which makes them feel more like a full hydro brake. My experience is they are more powerful/reliable as well.
Trp HyRd's are undoubtedly easier to install though without a weird (but fine once you have the knack) bleed process of the conducts. However you've still got a full run of outer cable and the mechanism is in the firing line of grime.
My hy/rds were always a bit average. I tried bleeding them even though there's not much to bleed and that made no difference. I tried different cables, changing the side they clamp on, different pads etc but they never really felt great. Changed the bike for one with ultegras and that confirmed I wasn't imagining things with the hy/rds.
I found HY-RDs a definite improvement over the BB7s that were on my touring bike when I got it. Been running them for 5 years or so with the old Gore cables that drove the BB7s and they've been fine.
I do have some Conducts now which I'm in the process of figuring out how to install...not quite ready to sell the HYRDs yet though because they were fine really (yes, I'm wondering why I bothered to change) and this:
Trp HyRd’s are undoubtedly easier to install though without a weird (but fine once you have the knack) bleed process of the conducts. However you’ve still got a full run of outer cable and the mechanism is in the firing line of grime
I stuck one on the front of my cross bike to replace a Spyre, which always felt a bit borderline. I also use a 180mm rotor. I left the Spyre on the back where it's less of an issue. I find it works pretty well with compressionless Jagwire housing, much more power and better feel than the Spyre. A bit picky about pad compound. I think it's a decent upgrade, kind of 70% of the way to full hydraulics.
I'd maybe swap the front brake and see if that works well enough. I did consider going full hydraulic or using the Hope/Giant set-ups, but it just didn't seem financially sane.
If its any help I have the fully hydraulic Hylex and I'm very happy with them.
I had them on my 2nd CX bike a couple of seasons ago and paired with the TRP compression-less cable kit they were more than adequate for racing and training.
I've had Hy-Rd's for about 3 years, they have been good as gold with no bleeding required.
I'm a fan
Having tried BB5/7 Juin/Acor cable calipers the HY-RD were definitely the best with compressionless outers, but don't discount just going full hydro which is better still. Might not be the case now but I picked up several sets of SRAM HRD shifters and calipers for about £250 a set (from Ribble and PlanetX). I sold my used 10 speed shifers for about £100, plus take off the cost of the HR-RD you are pretty much there. Yes you need an 11 speed cassette,chain,shifter too so another £100 depending on how worn you might be able to sell those too.
Mine (with jagwire compressionless on my gravel bike) have been flawless. I'm planning to build up a new frame with the drivetrain off that bike. I'm not even considering changing the brakes. Elsewhere in the household we have cable-tiagra and hydaulic-ultegra. They are much closer to the latter than the former.
Have had the Spyre’s on the winter bike for years and initially found similar to you, being unwilling to spend a fortune on a bike that’s ankle deep in the grot it’s whole life I did some research and with some high quality, compressionless housing, decent pads (I got swissstop before the world went to hell and they were a sensible price) they became good enough for purpose.. However, with a wee bit more effort and a guide posted on here somewhere on how to dismantle the Spyre caliper they were transformed. The thrust bearings in particular seems to be put together with no grease at all, after stripping, cleaning and careful greasing of the callipers they have become plenty good enough, not full hydraulic good (nice bike has ultegra discs) but plenty good enough without the wallet damage.
Might be worth a try.
I have bought a couple of bikes with mechanical disc brakes and have immediately ditched them for HY-RDS,the mechanical being simply no better than rim brakes.The HY-RDs are much better provided you carefully set them up according to the instructions.They are however not as good as the most basic full hydraulic brakes.This opinion is based on real life experience,some people say the HY-RDs can be problematic in service but mine did two seasons on a gravel bike before I did a brake fluid change as part of routine maintenance.
You could fit a Hope V-Twin which would allow you to run the current levers, but actuate hydraulic callipers? Then you'd have your pick of callipers too, budget allowing.
Just echoing the above. I found them much better than BB7s but not as good as hydros. Once they're set up they're far more consistent than cable discs and no more having to fiddle pad clearance after every couple of rides.
Hy/Rd>BB5 & BB7
Hy/Rd<Hydraulics
IMHO.
I had them on a road bike, tbh if I hadn't known they were cable driven I'd have assumed they were full hydraulic. Miles better than any cable disc brake I've ever used, just no comparison. I've only used an older hydraulic road brake and I'd say it was just as good, maybe a little less power but still good control and more power than I ever needed. Maybe newer road hydros are better? I just used whatever cables came with the bike, maybe I could have had some more performance there but I never felt any need.
Ugly, mind. But very good.
I have them on one of my winter road bikes. Not as good as fully hydros, but way better than a trp spyre
You could save yourself some cash and get a hydro caliper off ali Express for about 20 quid delivered. I was dubious but bought one out of curiosity..they were no worse than the trp hr-yd and fine for a cheap build
a horrific accident that occurred when another riders TRP Spyres failed following a long, wet, gritty, fast gravel descent
Failed in what way?
I've ridden down many long, wet, gravel track descents in the Alps on mine while loaded up, they do need good set up and regular small adjustments as they wear but aside from that zero problems and plenty of braking control. Basically nothing that can go wrong with them, at the cost of some absolute performance vs hydros.
On one of those rides a friends Juan Techs overheated and a seal failed between activation lever and the reservoir, that made me a bit wary of the format but since the piston seals on hydros are pretty reliable perhaps it's not a fundamental risk in the design.
a horrific accident that occurred when another riders TRP Spyres failed following a long, wet, gritty, fast gravel descent
Failed in what way?
Exactly, even metal on metal they stop eventually.
Exactly, even metal on metal they stop eventually.
'Eventually' is the key word there. I've had the problem of bare metal performance in combination with steep hills, at the end of a foul commute last winter. Thankfully there were no cars at the junction at the bottom of the hill..
I had the opposite problem on Sunday at the end of a three hour hilly gravel ride. I thought I was struggling with the wind and fitness for the last ten miles or so but when I wheeled the bike in to the house at the end of the ride, I fond that the rear brake was all but jammed on. I haven't checked what's going on yet, but I'm now getting too many problems with these brakes and they need to go. Playing with my brakes every few rides (which means every week or two) isn't something I enjoy, especially when I don't have an issue with any other brake I own.
Failed in what way?
I’ve ridden down many long, wet, gravel track descents in the Alps on mine while loaded up, they do need good set up and regular small adjustments as they wear but aside from that zero problems and plenty of braking control
I've no idea why the other riders brakes failed (I don't know the rider personally so no idea how competent they are as a rider or bike mechanic). All I do know is the levers pulled back to the bars without any meaningful contact with rotor.
I assume (yes, I know...) pad adjustment hadn't been dialled in enough to compensate for wear as my bike with the same brakes required the pad adjustment after that ride (as they do every so often, depending on usage). However, conceivably, there could have a different type of failure but it's my brakes I'm interested in, and I'm fed up/concerned about the amount of "constant" minor adjustment the cable operated disc brakes seem to require!
Some good ideas above so I'll call around a few local shops and check whether anyone can actually get hold of stock and then maybe try on just on the front to start (depending on cost)
I've had brake pads wear enough in a single ride to make them completely ineffectual (Juin R1s). I think that's just a factor in running anything that doesn't self-adjust brake pads for wear.
I had Hy-Rd's on my commuter until it got stolen. The front one was still going after several years of all weather/season use commuting in London but the rear one had given up. Its position (on the chain stay rather than the seat stay if memory serves) and the way the cable was routed to it meant that it where the cable entered the caliper was in the firing line for crud and spray off the road and eventually the seals just gave up and it got leaky onto the pads and rotor, with the commensurate decrease in stopping power!
Took a few years and a lot of commuting for that to happen though.
All I do know is the levers pulled back to the bars without any meaningful contact with rotor.
I assume (yes, I know…) pad adjustment hadn’t been dialled in enough to compensate for wear as my bike with the same brakes required the pad adjustment after that ride (as they do every so often, depending on usage).
Sounds like a slipped cable tbh? They can wear all the way down to metal on metal and it's a gradual rather than sudden change.
Anyway, as you say - they need a bit of fettling like rim brakes and if that doesn't appeal Hy-Rds could be better. As has been said above about the Juan R1s the HyRd doesn't adjust for wear like a full hydro so you'll still need to adjust for pad wear via a barrel adjuster, at the same rate you would with a Spyre.
Basically nothing that can go wrong with them, at the cost of some absolute performance vs hydros.
Dunno never had hydraulics freeze on 🙂
Must admit that I have been eyeing up the Aliexpress versions. Any more reports?
I think the cures marine grease OOTTOMH but I’ve also heard this from other people.
Not as nice as a real hydro but were fine on a commute bike so not totally shite.
Sneaky edit (the real ones not Ali express)
They can have quite a long throw in my experience, ie need to grab a lot of lever to get them to kick in, and then not so powerful. Bleeding them without the pistons being fully retracted solved this for me (and I think Tektro actually have a post or video about it, they call it overcharging iirc). Think I did the overcharge bleed by using one of the spacing tools between some already contaminated pads.
My front pistons occasionally get a bit sticky and require cleaning by getting them most of the way popped out and then wiping the sides of the piston cylinders with mineral oil to clean and lube them. Probably need to do that once a year on a bike that is used for commuting in all weather.
I replaced the spyres on my gravel/ winter road bike with Juin tech R1's, much more powerful, have been used in all sorts of shite for 18 months now and still going strong. About £100 for both ends as I recall, easy to fit, stock pads were a bit rubbish but replacements easy to get.
Note, it wasn't this seller though.
Not read all of the other replies but here’s my experience
Slightly better performance than my previous single piston cable discs. Infinitely better than the constant fettling that the pure cable ones needed.
But performance isn’t a patch on full hydros.
Personally, I really like them, for commuting they were brilliant and much cheaper and easier to retrofit than full hydros.
As has been said above about the Juan R1s the HyRd doesn’t adjust for wear like a full hydro so you’ll still need to adjust for pad wear via a barrel adjuster, at the same rate you would with a Spyre.
Isn't the Hy/Rd an open system? Surely that's the point in the reservoir that sits on top?
FWIW, I run R1s and I like them. I've had Spyres before, and R1s are much easier to live with. Being able to twiddle the brake pads with the adjuster knob is much less of a faff than having to wind the pads in individually with an allen key through the spokes. I've still been caught out a couple of times by brake pads dissolving though.
R1's don't need as much adjusting, nothing like spyres.
Dunno never had hydraulics freeze on
True, although is that going wrong or just a risk of mechanical/cable systems and certain conditions? 🙂
Isn’t the Hy/Rd an open system? Surely that’s the point in the reservoir that sits on top?
It is open isn't it. Remembered the pad adjustment point/need from ages back but not sure why, it's duff info.
Love them. Takes a bit of work to get the cable just so that they pull on quickly but once that is done they are great
Bear with me...
Rear
Apologies for multiple posts but it seems that I'm too incompetent to be able to add text plus two images in one forum post using my phone!
Anyway, it seems like the TRPs are out of stock until at least May '22 but they cost $175+tax (CDN) per end, whereas Juin Tech R1s cost $209 + tax for front and rear inc hardware and rotors, and I can have them tomorrow via Amazon...
R1s are sold in post mount and flat mount versions but mine use the very old IS standard but are currently using flat mount Spyres.
Can I safely assume to order the flat mount Juin Techs?
Note: rear rotor is currently 140mm but a 160mm rotor is supplied so I guess I need a different type of adaptor.
(And I probably want new compression-less cables as well?)
Those pictures are of post mount Spyres. Post mount R1s should be a straight swap.
Good point, I wasn't sure what the difference was between post mount and flat mount until I looked more closely.
Anyway, I've ordered some post mount Juin Tech from Amazon and should have them tomorrow...
Cheer guys!
My experience? Good when they worked but they didn't work that often despite me and the LBS giving them a lot of TLC and £££. Worst of both worlds really. Sold the bike in the end, mainly because the brakes couldn't be trusted.
My Juin techs came with bolt on discs, so I just used the TRP Spyre disks, are they called centre lock or something?
As someone else above, I always found the HY/RDs to be adequate, until I upgraded to (GRX) Hydros. The GRX are night and day better, to the point where I now feel I kind of endangered myself by using the TRPs for commuting such a long time.
The main issue, as many have stated, is that's VERY hard to get them to adjust for pad wear. I know they're supposed to do it automatically, but the problem appears to be that the lever throw (I had Tiagra brifters) isn't enough to activate the reservoir bore, so they never quite adjust. So you end up pulling the cable tighter, which mostly works until it doesn't and you're left with no brakes.
In other news, I have some lightly-used HY/RDs for sale if anyone wants them...
is that’s VERY hard to get them to adjust for pad wear. I know they’re supposed to do it automatically, but the problem appears to be that the lever throw (I had Tiagra brifters) isn’t enough to activate the reservoir bore, so they never quite adjust.
I looked up a review of these as it was bugging me where I wrongly remembered a lack of auto-adjustment point from, something from when they were first released to OEMs. Reviews back you up, they do mention that the HyRd needs a fairly long brake lever movement (will be more of an issue for some levers than others) and adjusting that via the piston position means the open reservoir's valve may not operate fully / at all if wound in past a certain point, if so you need to adjust manually for pad wear.