[Closed] the demise of decent customers (lbs content)

There are indeed still some damn fine shops out there, but people only mention things when they go wrong.

I am in the lucky position that I live 3 miles from very good LBS's, Race Co and Two Wheels, both in Stourbridge. Both very good in there own ways, both very knowledgeable, both well worth a visit.

TBH, Matt at cyclesurgery in bristol is so helpful that I always go in and see if they can price match (or close enough) before I make any large purchases online. I know it's a large chain but I cannot stress how important an individual is in LBS'. If he left, I'd probably go elsewhere or shop online more than I do. The attidude of the mech in my other LBS sucks.

There are good bike shops and like yourself many have a presence on here. I wouldn't get too upset about it, grumpy customers are a fact of life in retailing.

ps. I'd have put my sunglasses on if you'd given a warning about those wheels on your homepage 😯

Describe an awful attitude to me.

TBH, Matt at cyclesurgery in bristol is so helpful that I always go in and see if they can price match (or close enough) before I make any large purchases online.

If I understand you correctly you want to use the experience, knowledge and attitude of a local bike shop, but expect to pay a faceless company's prices. I know you also said "or close enough", but I think you have already made the decision. Surely everything which makes Matt and Cyclesurgery everything that it is has a cost, not least the convenience.

If I had a bike shop and you asked me to price match an internet store, I'd give you internet store service and ask you to come back in 3 days to collect it.

soz about the wheels....i thought no-one would buy it in that colour...weve sold 2 like it! go figure 😆

Well, if you're gonna go loud, you may as well [b]GO LOUD[/b] !

I like it 😉

don, it's called "free market". I pay for any servicing I have, I'm not getting any favours from the shop. If I mail CRC with a question, I get an answer in the same way I do from an LBS and I have no problem with waiting for things they may not have in stock. I do not expect to be massively out of pocket for having the pleasure of driving to a shop, and could just order online without a thought for the LBS but I don't, I give them an opportunity to make a profit on high value items which they wouldn't have necessarily got otherwise. I have a clear conscience about this and the shop seem grateful for the business especially with the current economic situation.
EDIT; I buy pretty much all components and clothing from there and get ~10% discount as standard which I'm happy with.

ha ha! ive thought about rolling out 2 levels of service,internet and in the shop...but we look after everyone the same cos we dont discriminate!

as for bad attitude i guess its the reverse of what some of stw readers have experienced....i get customers who come in expecting a massive discount/price match/loadsa advice and then go buy it obviously online...if i sus em out early enough they get none of the good stuff!

i had a woman strop out of the shop because she wanted to try on a pair of assos bibs...she then followed it up by saying she wanted the size right before she purchased online(elsewhere) i said i couldnt help her and explained why.....she left and i waved her off!

There are indeed still some damn fine shops out there, but people only mention things when they go wrong.

I am in the lucky position that I live 3 miles from very good LBS's, Race Co and Two Wheels, both in Stourbridge. Both very good in there own ways, both very knowledgeable, both well worth a visit.

+1

I'm in the same position as you BH but must say Nick at Sixty Nine Cycles in Chester is one of the most friendly and knowledgeable guys i've met. For a relative newbie like me some of the shops that you go into can be a little patronising so will defo be sticking with Nick. "Real world" workshop pricing too.

I love my LBSs, and would far rather visit them and pay a few quid more than order something on-line.

The last two times I've been in my favourite LBS, I've been offered a top up for my water bottle, a free sample of the latest energy bar, a cup of coffee and a bacon buttie.

MK Cycles in Bolton.

It's a 30 odd mile round trip, but I'd rather do that ride in the rain and wind and snow, and have done, than order over the net.

Bike shops are great places, often run by real enthusiasts, and should be supported in my opinion.

My BB (HT2) played up on yesterdays ride at Afan, knowing it needed replacing and not having the specific tool myself, j took it to Skyline, first time I'd used them as I am new to the area, got there at 4.50, shortly before they closed, explained the problem and that I would like them to fit a new one if possible, but not in a great hurry, but ideally would like it by Tuesday am if possible. Decided to have a lazy day today, took the dog for a nice long walk, and was just settling down for a coffee at about 11am when the phone went, it was Skyline letting me know that my bike was ready for collection, now I know it isn't a huge labour intensive job, and that in the workshop area yesterday they had a few bikes in for work, but I was pleasantly surprised by the turn around time on the job, not to mention how reasonable the bill was, so much so I turned up with a packet of hobnobs by way of a thank you, oh and they also freed up the sticking lockout switch on my front forks. As I said it was the first time I had used them, but I would gladly go back and recommend them to others. Admittedly I could do the job myself, but not having the tool, and to be honest only having one bike with HT2 I don't see the point, I have no issue with giving the bike to an LBS for the work, I'd like to think I am a fairly decent customer, who is willing and happy to pay a fair price for a fair service, I do buy online, most recently some Crud RoadGuards and other ancillaries, but there are certain things I would rather go to an LBS for the advice and the ability to physically see the items in the flesh. Have a good rest of your Sunday everyone, time to laze in the garden with some wine I think.

I love my LBSs, and would far rather visit them and pay a few quid more than order something on-line.

Happy to pay a few quid more, it's expected. >£50 more for a pair of forks or wheels then they're going to lose out I'm afraid.

If I can fix something myself then I order parts from CRC. Otherwise it goes to the shop and I let them charge part and labour at their rates. One area where shops can do well is clothing because sizing up online is a lottery.

backhander, that's all perfect until you want a hand with something. I also suspect, knowing my lbs, that you're probably not their target customer. You know that you want high end expensive components and that possibly isn't your lbs's bread and butter.
I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it's in stock or not.
Of course you have the right to choose, you also have the right to lose. We have plenty of examples where the short sighted desire to drive prices down has a negative effect for everyone except the privilidged few. An the customer certainly doesn't win. [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/on-hold ]For example.[/url]

if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it's in stock or not.

Losing profit margin won't keep me in business long either. As I said yours is probably the type of business I could afford to lose. High maintenance low margin, go somewhere else mate.

I would have thought that in this climate particularly, any customer is a target customer.

And as for

I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it's in stock or not.

Probably one of the most stupid statements I've ever heard and guaranteed to lose a customer. I take it you are not in a retail Don Simon?

If small retailers are going to survive they have to offer something more than other sources, they certainly won't or can't win on price.

EDIT :

High maintenance low margin, go somewhere else mate.

I'd not shop from someone with such a bad attitude anyway [i]mate[/i]. There's too much choice. It's nice to know that there's sufficient business in spain to be so picky, you probably prefer clueless commuters who you can tear money out of rather than MTBers who know the value of kit.

And selling at a loss is good business? 🙄

The 4Ps contain three others and not just price.

I am lucky I guess but we have a number of good bike shops in Edinburgh - the bike chain is the one I suse the most.

Prices for service items pads cables chainrings are near as dammit the sameaas the itnernet price and in stock, big high ends parts they find it hard to compete.

Helpfull and friendly but charge FAIR amount for the workshops - which I don't mind as you get what yo pay for.

you probably prefer clueless commuters who you can tear money out of rather than MTBers who know the value of kit.

Yay! Now you're learning.

DS

Are you Mark Thatcher?

Why?

'Ride on' have always treated me well and as a result have always had my trade since I discovered them.

And there we have it.

backhander - Member

And there we have it.

Is that for me?

[b]Cycleworld[/b] as soon as I have a decent LBS - I'll see if I can become a decent customer.

But since [i]I am the one paying[/i], I think it behoves the LBS to get their acts into gear.

If i had Skyline down the road I think I would rarely buy stuff online. But I don't. I have:

1) Some very nice blokes at the local trail centre who are friendly and give discounts but are really mainly busy keeping their successful hire business going.
2) A bunch of muppets 15 miles to the West who have once lost my shock for 6 weeks, and on another occasion changed a chain without changing the cassette and not testing the bike afterwards. (I'd asked them to service a bike near the end of its warranty period - would always do this myself normally).
3) A big well-known shop 15 miles to the North which always has a 3 week wait for any kind of technical attention and is offhand to say the least.
4) Assorted shops aimed at selling BSOs to kids and lycra to middle-aged triathletes.

None of them are the kind of place I used to drop in as a roadie teenager where you could talk for ages, have a cup of tea, and somehow you ended up buying stuff sooner or later.

Yes don. I've already said that I don't expect absolute price matching and am happy to pay a little more. I've said that I don't mind waiting for kit and that I buy minor items from my LBS despite lower pricing online. You've still jumped all over me and said that you wouldn't want my business because you can make more money by charging what you like to commuters. I don't feel I've been especially harsh on you.

Nor me on you.

Rule 58:
Never buy bikes, parts or accessories online. Going into your local shop, asking myriad inane questions, tying up the staff’s time, then going online to buy is akin to sleeping with your best friend’s wife, then having a beer with him after. You may as well go into your local shop and spit in the owners face. Online is evil and will be the death of the bike shop. If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.

Well I am glad of two things:
first, I am lucky I have an excellent bike shop. For example we (me two other riding mate who buys at the same LBS and one of the LBS owners) went to the Roc on Friday ([url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-few-shots-from-the-roc ]some pictures here[/url]. We book a nearby restaurant for lunch and had a nice meal. Guess who paid? They are actually riders. And very knowledgeable about what's in store.
Second, STWER are only a very tiny fraction of the bike industry. If you are going in a bike shop expecting to pay on-line prices for LBS service... Well you are obviously missing something.

I buy online, I buy from my LBS, I buy from chain LBS's and I buy at LBS elsewhere (if we happen to be out riding).

I won't overpay, and thats not just in MTB terms, but in general. But also don't expect a discount on everything. As I've said previously to my LBS's owner, 'he knows his purchase price and costs and what he can afford to sell it for, I don't'.

I'm not convinced online will be the death of the bike shop. There will always be folk with less knowledge. Must be hard being an LBS. David and Goliath. David wins most of the time for me.

I tend do go to a bike shop for emergency items (tubes, lubes, etc) and clothing. Other stuff I buy online or 2nd hand. I do all spannering myself. I'm happy with this setup, I get a fair price for stuff, the LBS gets some business.
The only thing that is wrong is paying £5-6 for an inner tube!

Highclimber

I agree with much of what you say there (especially the part about picking their brains and then buying on-line, that is out of order) but there is surely an amicable middle ground where the LBS, although not be able to directly match the on-line price, can still make a decent profit by offering a competitive price to include fitting.

Surely that is one way in which a good shop/customer relationship is built. It is a two way thing.

Well to balance my poor LBS experiences I've also had great service from skyline with a couple of mechanicals over the years. Last time they were so good I ended up buying a few bits whilst I waited as I felt a bit guilty paying so little for so much time (snapped spoke)

All but one of my LBSs are shite. I usually do my own servicing but if its something I can't get right they always do a good job. I prefer buying parts online as it's cheaper and I never really need "after sales" help.

I haven't set foot in my local bikeshop since the nob tried to charge me £3.95 for a single inner brake cable. I understand he has overheads etc but WTF.

Teflon cables £3 on crc, fancy ones for more, clarks cheapies for £2 depending on the cable quality its not that bad. a quid extra and yo can have it now in your hand.

i love 'the book' that bike shops write things in, it must be a portal into another universe, once something has gone 'in the book' you know you'll never hear from it again...

examples: i asked shop X to get some tyres in for me, the order went 'in the book' and i never heard anything more about it.

i asked shop Y to build a wheel for me, we discussed hub/spoke/rim options, it got written down 'in the book' and i never heard anything more about it.

i was looking at road bikes in shop Z, very keen to buy one, they didn't have my size in stock, so had to get one in from the distributor, this went 'in the book' and yadda yadda yadda.

etc.

etc.

every time i've seen something written in 'the book' it has come to nothing and i've ended up either buying elsewhere or online.

i know / hope it's people just being forgetful / too busy, and yes, i do feel a bit guilty about eventually shopping elsewhere, but i have a message for all the bike shop owners:

LOOK IN YOUR BLOODY BOOK! - i promise you've got about £300 worth of orders waiting in it.

(or just tell me if i'm too ugly to have in your shop - i'll understand)

LBS's need to remember they are a business, in order to stay in business you need to offer a product/service people want at a price people are prepared to pay. If you don't you will die is Darwinism in action. What they should not do is blame there customer for the fact they are not competitive any-more.

I owe no more to my LBS than I do to Tesco.

That said I have started using one of my LBS's and I quite like them 🙂 I have bought some clothes and shoes etc, but if I had bought the RS revs from them instead of CRC it would have been £150-£200 more expensive, they are nice but not that nice 🙂

Bazzer

If you don't you will die is Darwinism in action.

Closer to Porter than Darwin. 😆

My LBS is a bit hot and cold. Every 10th visit they do something to make me change my mind but then ruin it for the other 9. I end up driving or riding a few miles to the next closest shop (or even go to Evans/Halfords) rather than buy from them usually (but that helps the other less local BS). The best one was when the manager quoted two weeks to remove a shock bushing which took precisely 30 seconds at the shop down the road.

Generally I won't put up with disinterested, inept staff in the LBS when I can order ineptly from CRC/Wiggle/Merlin myself and save time. If I want to lose parts in the workshop, I'm also pretty good at that too so don't need to pay.