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Talk about frustration .
I have an inbox full of enquiries for lights and prices .
some hear the estimated price and never reply and about 30% get back still interested .
I have no housings left and the guy who CNC machined them last time seems too busy to do some more for me despite the fact they were £32 each and the last run was 43 units
also I am still waiting for the new XPG leds to be released as I dont want to use the older stuff .
Here is the breakdown so you can see what goes into a light.
The big boys will get it all a lot cheaper and will be getting their lights made in asia though Hope do their own stuff as we all know.
As I have to buy most of the bits in $ last season it had a huge impact on costs .
this is what is inside a Troutlight MK1 and what it costs me to build at todays exchange rates and prices
6 XPE leds @ £3.55 ----------------£21.30
optics @ .80 ----------------------£ 4.80
led driver - Maxflex --------------£22.00
waterproof switch ----------------£ 5.00
housing ---------------------------£32.00
anodising -------------------------£5
other bits like 4 M3 bolts
wire
thermal adhesive
silicon
strain relief for cable
cable ( found 100 mtrs in a skip )
lexan face plate
estimate for these ----------------£10/12
total cost ---------£ 103.00
the total cost last season was about £115
I sold the kits to DIY for £135 plus postage
and for those who did not want to diy £165 .00 plus postage
What you got for the money was a Light with on paper lumens of 1200 with a beam that was taylored to suit either helmet or bars and for those who bought one a light that was as good or better than any of the big players lights
OK no fancy box , an email with instructions on . no fancy mounting brackets though it could be bought ready drilled and tapped to take a Lumicycle bar mount and the user had to find a velcro strap to helmet mount it or in my case 2 zipties
Now for the New stuff
I cant give prices yet as we dont know the cost of the new XPG leds but all the others things stay the same .
If I can get some more housings done then there will be 2 lights maybe 3
but first up will be the 6 led Troutlight redesigned to be even better.
the on paper lumen count will go up to 2070 lumens at full power
again with a beam pattern as good as the pics you have all seen.
then a 4 led version I am hoping to do . smaller lighter and with a slighlty better lumen count of 1380 Lumens.
again both with a tuneable beam to suit the user.
So you can see what it costs me to do a light and the huge profits I make .
I do it because I enjoy it
Yes costs could be brought down a little .
a cheap driver with no hi low or thermal protection could be used but then the lights would start to come back broken due to users letting them overheat , not something I want to be repairing lights for free.
I could go to China and have a shedload made but have no money to risk on that route, then I just become a reseller in it just for the money .
There you go folks my cards are on the table with no bullshit in there
I could easily buy a reel of P7 leds and knock up a light for the £50 but no way include the battery/charger it would be nearer to £100 or more .
but that is not what I want to do an average light
I want to do a great light.
And on Batteries / chargers
that is Smudges domain and he helps me out loads so get your replacement packs from him . they are top quality cells
trout, nice summary. Your open approach is very refreshing. It also shows the ridiculous profits made by the likes of Lupine.
I still plan to get one of the new lights from you later in the year.
trout
just posted on here to express public support
will be emailing you today to outline exactly what I need
cheers 🙂
Trout, having seen the pictures and vids of your previous work, isn't 2000 Lumens just pointlessly bright?
If I was after a compromise between brightness and runtime what's the right thing in your stable? Something that I could get around 3 hours out of a single pack and "bright enough" (whatever that is? 600 L?) for night racing / riding.
A switch would be nice to drop the output as a "get you home" mode as well.
Cheers.
Crell
well it depends on how the 2000 lumens are used and I think they are used pretty well .
I could say why have a car capable of 140 mph when 70 is the max limit.
the car has a throttle
so does the Troutlight .
you can have 2.5 hours of runtime from a 2600 mah pack at full power
but if you use the modes well then it will run all night at useable light levels
one other thing is the extra lumens from the new leds are not just at the expense of using more battery power
they are using the power better IE more light and less heat so it is a win win situation .
Trout.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated 😀
Crickey !, after reading your cost break-down I think thats a very slim margin for you on your lights. Must hardly cover your initial R&D.
Anyway, ran my light today while on a ride, it kept switching down to the L2 setting due to temping-out. I've now set the cut-in to 80 degrees. Running during a sunny day will mean higher ambient, but I like to test my efforts at the higher end of what I expect the operational conditions to be. Belt-n-braces, and all that.
Crell.
Thats the beauty of a light such as the Trout light, you can configure it to a level of light-output that you think is sufficient, assuming that the Max is too much. You can lessen the max-output setting to suit your [i]taste[/i], and stretch out your run time, Bonus !.
Cheers 😉
Solo.
I apologise Mr Trout if I have caused you any grief from the time wasters, it was obviously not my intention.
For what its worth, I wouldn't bother buying a light that was overkill for my needs 99% of the time, you need to come up with a reliable alternative to the bastid at around the £100 mark if you wish to compete with the masses.
So, how much would it cost to 'mod' an existing light such as the DX to make it better & more reliable, given your CNC cost alone are close to the price of said fatherless light??
Most seem to think the flashing mode is not worth the effort, so a simple & reliable 2/3 stage switch/board is in order. A decent charger for the battery wouldn't go a miss, add that on, maybe team up with smudge?
AFAIK, only a very small number of people want, & are willing to pay for, the best. So you make your choice as to which way you want to run on the basis of small & niche (like Jones bikes), or more turnover with lesser margin (like most manufacturers).
What you really need to work out is if this is to be a hobby for pin money, or a business, only you know that answer, & TBH it's none of my business anyway.
I have only posted this as my opinion, you have every right to tell me to FO, but it was meant as a pointer, not an order or request, best of luck in all that you do. 🙂
Is the 3 XPE/XPG light with built in battery a no go then Trout??
I would like to see some research/surveys into what people want
i recon half the light of some of your lights could be sufficient.
2.5hrs and 2000 lumens is fairly useless for me, sure i know you can dim them and get better battery life
duration, beam pattern, easy of dimming (for road sections), excellent qr clamp & weight is way more important to me
secondary would be water proofness, changeable battery, wireless perhaps.. and some ****ing accurate battery life times (this is not a dig at yours)
where are the electronics for hope lights made? not by hope.
I want the best Brightest light for the money as you can always turn it down. This will then match the bike I have that I can't ride.
Keep up this great work Trout, we need more guys like you.
This is really good thread and hoping these new XPG's come out soon as I'm very tempted with 2000 lumens if only to arrive on the night ride and fry the Lupine boys.
S
My opinion is that this thread must have been good for Trout and Smudge.
Although I have got a DX bastid, it was in my budget as I've said before, (still no problems with it BTW).
Trouts honest and unbiased review and both their answers to queries on the Bastid are a credit to them. I am under no illusion that my light is anywhere near the quality of Trouts lights and Smudges battery packs. Then there is the assurance of that quality, although spangles DX lights where replaced as they where DOA I'm sure they wouldnt treat my used and mud-spattered one as sympathetically if it packs up on me-not to mention the hassle of returning it to them anyway.
I don't think Trout and Smudge will "lose" any customers to the DX really anyway. I am a goldsmith by trade and couldn't hope to try to compete price-wise with Argos jewellery for example, but the people who come to me (usually) know that. They are a different client base who know that quality and guarantee are worth an extra cost.
+1 with blastit and billyboulders. I really, [i]really[/i] want one of Trouties planet scourer lights, and I'll find a way to pay for one, but, in the meantime my fatherless light is giving me adequate service for not a lot of money. I can justify paying Trout what he asks for his light, I can see exactly where every penny goes, whereas there is no way I could justify paying what Hope, Exposure, and [i]especially[/i] Lupine ask for their lights. I genuinely think Trout does better R&D than most of the big boys, redesigning the front of the light to put more light just in front of the front wheel being a case in point. It's all down to value for money: the DX lights are good VFM, Trouts lights, good VFM. Lupine? What do YOU think?
Solo
Good stuff And thanks for your support
2unfit
No apologies needed and a sensible post it is just done for fun and to keep my brain working as fitting floors is not too brain taxing.
and if it makes a little cash on the side then it is a bonus .
be nice to make a living out of it but the bastid puts that idea out the window
Kinda666
The batteries included is on a back burner and lent to a guy racing in America
Dobo
Yes sure would be a good idea and there is good feedback on to what suits some folks on here .
and most of the things you say apply to my stuff
Topdog
probably China
Blastit
Billy
Count
Thanks all good points and it is good to see some folks who want the best but not at any cost
I am not going to even try and do cheap and cheerfull except to offload my old stock , ( which is still better than most mainstream leds )
and do kits and some built up kick ass lights and bespoke insane ones too
I get quite a few requests for strange one off lights which is a whole load more fun than churning out the same thing all the time.
I think I need one of these Badly Drawn Fish light/battery combos.
Smudge..Trout...Geddit?
Have emailed.
Oops 😳
"[i][b]Anyway, ran my light today while on a ride, it kept switching down to the L2 setting due to temping-out[/b]. I've now set the cut-in to 80 degrees. Running during a sunny day will mean higher ambient, but I like to test my efforts at the higher end of what I expect the operational conditions to be. Belt-n-braces, and all that.[/i]"
I must point out that I am referring to one of my own lights and a light from Trout. Just in case anyone was thinking that.
Solo
Aarrgh !. That should read:
"[i]I must point out that I am referring to one of my own lights and [b]NOT[/b] a light from Trout. Just in case anyone was thinking that[/i]"
I'm going to go have a rest 😳
Solo.
Thanks for this thread - just ordered the Bike light - already have a P7 - but two are better than one. I'm almost excited about the dark nights now !
Hello all, sorry if it's bad protocol to resurrect this old thread but I thought it was the best place to post a "long term" report.
My bastid is over 6 months old now and has had alot of use and many charge cycles and has still given me no trouble whatsoever. I have seen the reports re. dodgy chargers (dangerously dodgy in some cases) I always charge it at work-they've got fire extinguishers handy!-and always keep an eye on it but to date the charger has never got any warmer than the one on my daughters Nintendo DS (for example). The light unit itself still works as brightly as day one and the battery pack holds its charge as well as ever. The only mods I've done were to unscrew the bezel and put a spot of grease on the threads to water proof things a bit more, I did the same with the mounting screw underneath. I've also put the battery pack inside a placcy bag as I can see how water may seep into the heat wrap on it. Both the light and battery have been absolutely soaked on some rides and have suffered no ill effects.
If you can run to it definitely get a Trout/Smudge combo......but (based solely on my own experience) I can't rate the bastid highly enough for those on a budget. It should have won STW's product of the year IMO!