[Closed] Soul 275

Cant see that happening, 29 going the way of 26, diehards only.

For hardtails at least, that's somewhat doubtful.

I don't know what people are moaning about, tbh.

It's not like Cotic invented 650B is it?
As much as I'm not a fan of the wheelsize, surely anyone can see the futility of not providing the option?

It's not like they've stopped making 26 wheel bikes, unlike many others.

Realistically, Cy's first time customers are people who have bought a complete OEM bike previously and now want to upgrade their frame.

Catering only for 26 and 29 is bound to cost sales in the medium term.

Two faced? BFe was restocked only last month (that is 26"), and more 26" bikes are being made.

I'm letting you Troll me again, aren't I, Mr Dog… stopping now.

If there's any MTB market where 26" is least likely to die out it's the Soul & BFe's audience who swap from a 26" full-sus or lesser hardtail by putting their old parts on a new frame (as I did). I bet most of those building up a Soul as a brand new bike would rather it be a 27.5 (for better or for worse - though I believe it's more for the better) because of the very strong stance taken by the bulk of the industry in favour of 27.5 over 26 (and there's no way a manufacturer as small as Cotic can swim against a tide that strong).

Challenging for cash flow and stock control to have both sizes but if the #26forlife crowd stay true to their word then it should work out well...

How pathetic can some people be? It's another great frame with slightly larger wheels. More choice is a good thing. I guess some people fear change and others either embrace it or ignore it.

>sigh< Solaris has been in the Cotic range for 4 years

Hate to be a pedant K, but they were only available to buy from early 2012 (I got one of the first batch).

I agree with the Chief, nobody the size of Cotic can swim against that particular tide. It makes sense to at least cater for the 27.5 crowd, especially as it would appear to have squeezed out the majority of 26". I assume that Cy wants to still be in the bike industry in 10 years time.

As long as people are buying them (26") I'm sure Cotic will restock. If not they'll go the same way as the Soda. It's a called economics....

I'm not in the 27.5 market personally but I'm liking the idea of the 120 fork and dropper post geo 'correction'.

Solaris has been in the Cotic range for 4 years,

I remember the hand wringing over 29ers too, the Cy had one made and had a revelation* & introduced them

*saw how well they were selling for other companies

I have no problem with Cotic selling what they want, but don't try to con peopl you are a died in the wool, I don't see the point of 27.5 26" for ever supporter one month then blatantly introduce one the next

rOcKeTdOg - Member

I don't see the point of 27.5 26" for ever supporter one month then blatantly introduce one the next

If they'd canned the 26er, you'd have a point I think but there's no contradiction at all in selling 650b bikes but still selling and promoting 26 inch bikes and saying "26 ain't dead". Most companies are replacing 26 with 650b (and insisting it's miles better), Cotic aren't, at least not yet.

Should go without saying that if they can't sell the 26er they'll stop selling it but at that point 26 really will be dead- most manufacturers are killing it prematurely, Cotic are staying with it, it looks like til the bitter end

Quite right Metalheart, we were riding them from 2011, and they weren't for sale 'till 2012, after lots of revisions.

How pathetic can some people be? It's another great frame with slightly larger wheels. More choice is a good thing. I guess some people fear change and others either embrace it or ignore it.

Here here

For what it's worth, it's just shot to the top of my next bike list

[img] [/img]

But seriously, its hardly surprising is it, makes fine business sense. And they are a business after all, gotta pay for that posh new factory! With the new facility I guess they can be more reactive to customer demand from now, and maybe afford to 'try' things which previously were too much of a gamble.

More choice can only be a good thing for!

Mine was sold this week and with a heavy heart due sitting between two sizes and never finding a good position on my medium.

If the small 26 had the new geo I think I would have been sorted 🙁

Think I need to take some tippex to my cotic tshirt to read '26 is an option'

As soon as it was announced that the 26 ain't dead, it became virtually certain that it was.

As soon as it was announced that the 26 ain't dead, it became virtually certain that it was.

Exactly my thoughts

Surely u can see that the 26 ain't dead video was as tongue in cheek as the size matters Solaris one. Cy was already riding a 275 prototype by the time they filmed it if you read his email.

He's just taking his business where it will have to go judging by what's happening with everything else.

I'm waiting until they make one with 559 EnduRad wheels.

Are we really still fretting about wheel sizes? New Cotics = good

Cant believe people are complaining & having a pop!?

Full of admiration for Cy & his team adding another model / wheel size to their range of bikes & IMO they would be mad not to add 27.5 to their range! 8)

If they're gonna get bigger wheels, why not build an XL frame??

Can we have some titanium ones again now please?

Still reckon they've missed a trick by not being able to run 142 like many of the new 650b HTs (Stanton, kona, pace etc)

I don't understand the moaning? Cotic and Cy haven't announced that the 26 is now obsolete. They are just making a new size to cater for more of the market. The 26er ain't dead is clever marketing and was probably released because they knew the 275 was coming. They wanted to reassure their loyal riders and fans to their 26 commitment. As long as people buy 26 in suitable numbers, I'm sure BML and Cotic will continue to make them.

To be honest I currently ride 26ers and the 29er has been on no interest due to my short height/inside leg. However the 275 might be something to consider.

The strap line should now read #26aintdeadwejustgiveyoumorechoice

Its almost easier for cotic to maintain the 26" frames than someone like specialised. They are dealing in relatively low numbers, they have a following that will look them out and pay the asking price. It's a bit like comparing a saville row tailor and Next for suits.

Giving it a new name would have been a better idea. That way it wouldn't look as much like a replacement to all the cynical lot.

Jesus...what a bunch of petty ****ing whingers!

Can't believe some of the comments here, who cares, both are available Cotic now offer all 3 wheel sizes just choose the one you want
More disappointing is the missed opportunity to add dropper post guides (by the look of the pics I've seen) and full cable outer routing, and even possibly 12mm dropout option all things that should be standard on a modern bike regardless of wheels size

Cant see that happening, 29 going the way of 26, diehards only.

I have no idea whether you are right (and I doubt you do either), but this is my main fear with 650B. As far as I can tell it only makes sense if it replaces both 26 and 29. Isn't that the point of an in-between compromise? If you are going to keep two wheel sizes in the market 26 and 29 makes more sense as the difference is greater.

Personally I could care less if 650B replaces 26". The difference is small enough to be irrelevant at my level. But 29ers offer a useful alternate to the smaller wheeled bikes. Not better or worse, but usefully different and it would be a shame to lose that.

I was hopping that Orange would update the Gyro and Cotic would release a 29er Rocket this year. So, I'd have two UK built 29ers to consider. If nothing else the choice would paralyze me for long enough to save me some money 🙂

As for the Soul 275, I just can't see the problem. As long as the 26" model is still being offered then I don't see any inconsistency in their position. Contrast this with Orange who replaced the 26" Five with the 650B version (to howls of protest from some corners) and (if podsts on their Facebook page are to be believed) are already "leaking" shots of a 650B Alpine, the last 26" bike in their lineup, which was launched less than a year ago.

I have a Cotic and a Transition and am very pleased with them, both companies offer all 3 wheel sizes in different bikes. The Soul 275 is an interesting development, we now have the Soul/Solaris in all 3 wheel sizes. I don't see this persisting in the long term, it's too fragmented. Cotic is a great business and brand and I respect Cy and his judgement. I have a 26 frame to build up with exisitng spare components but if I were starting from scratch the Soul 275 would be a very strong candidate, this is the first time I've ever considered such a thing. There is a message there as far as I'm concerned.

@roverpig - I think there is a good chance 275 replaces both 26 and 29, the market does seem to have largely rejected 29 and as you say 26/275 are so close as to wonder what's the point of both. Obviously I'm no DH demon but whilst the pros are riding 26 it's hard to be convinced that that isn't the fastest / best handling bike size.

Cy would be absolutely mad not to do 27.5 in the current industry climate.

What I don't get is people who presumably said "I want a soul but no way am I using 26" wheels" I guess the buying public reckon 26 [b]is[/b] dead.

I don't know what planet the "29 had no future" crowd are living on? Plenty of people I ride with have 29ers and the 6'+ crowd seem to have strongly bought into the concept. I guess I ride with almost fifty different people regularly and in that selection there are four 27.5s, maybe 30 29ers and a lot of 26s. Amongst the hardtails the 29s might outnumber the 26s. We all ride together, we all have fun!

Why do businesses exist? Rhetorical.

To provide products and / or services, to make a profit, to employ people. Are the obvious one's.

How do businesses exist?

By providing those products and / or services at the right price, at the right quality and to conformance to their customer's requirements, being flexable and reacting to changes quickly and efficiently. Enabling them to make a profit and employ people throughout their supply chain.

Based on my somewhat non-MBA definitions, well done Cotic! For investing in their production facilities to increase their ability for flexibility. For recognising their loyal customer base and providing choice. For embracing change.

Quite how some people have construed the '26 ain't dead' to mean that it is the all and end all to exclusion of anything else, no longer surprises me. Some people just fear the one thing that life guarantees. Change.

I don't think cy isn't sticking to his guns, I'm sure he would say that the 26 ain't dead thing was mostly a fun way of saying it was still a valid wheel size to use, not some kind of martyrish nailing of colours to a mast.

I think people are taking it too seriously. Like I said, he's obviously been riding a 275 prototype over the summer (according to the email thing) so he obviously didn't see too much of a problem having that 275 soul in the van whilst filming the 26 ain't dead promo (which lets not forget is for the bfe, a frame that has a slightly different intended use to the soul!)

I'm sure he just thinks if everyone else is going to be doing it there's no point letting potential buyers go elsewhere. As so,done pointed out above, pretty soon lots of people looking for a new hard tail frame will have OEM 27.5 kit lying around in their garage to use, not just 26" stuff

This:

More disappointing is the missed opportunity to add dropper post guides (by the look of the pics I've seen) and full cable outer routing, and even possibly 12mm dropout option all things that should be standard on a modern bike regardless of wheels size

For investing in their production facilities

Lets for a moment just fix this shall we

Cotic does not own the production facility, Cy is a partner in it and he owns Cotic and also BML which is a subcontract manufacturing company .

It's a totally logical move by Cotic. As a relative shortarse non-techy xc rdier, 29 seems ridiculous, but when I do come to change frame, 27.5 will be an option. I'm sure there are plenty of riders who aren't considering binning perfectly good 26 frames/wheels straight away, but will consider all the options when the time comes.

More disappointing is the missed opportunity to add dropper post guides (by the look of the pics I've seen)

Cotic have had dropper post cable/hose routing on their frames since they moved over to the 44mm/tapered headtube versions. And the under top tube routing on the earlier frames works great with running a dropper post cable along with the rear brake hose. No idea what the problem is with half-open gear cables - I ride mine in all weathers and they work fine (and my maintenance schedule is minimal to say the least...)

Guys it's riding bikes 😀

No complications needed !!! 😉