Forum menu
Well done. Interesting day for punctures. I enjoyed the 4th cat race. It needed a few more attacks. I towed a rider back into the bunch when they were dropped, but didn't shout as much as previously. The E123 was a bit unsettled. I attacked twice, but was instantly chased down, as was everyone else who had a go. Legs felt good after the RF500 last week. Was a few bumps and two crashes in the last two laps, which I avoided. Another solid mid pack finish. I was the third oldest in the race too 🙂 .
@crosshair - it's rented don't forget, I think it's a reminder to take care of it 😆
@tired - thanks! Your tips really did help today, struggled to see how I could push through the centre though? Once I figure that bit out (and gain the confidence) I may be an okay racer lol. I tried my best on the attacks front, didn't have the legs for it today. People were a lot more spread out on the last corner this time too haha.
Sounds like a good race, bar the accidents. I think there was only one incident in the 4s when a guy overshot one of hairpins? Oh and folks cutting that bloody corner, had me on the brickwork at one point.
Did you see the guy who attacked from the car park area near the start/finish... mental!
Over training from Zwift possibly?
Most probably Weeksy, revising my plan and just commuting on Thurs/Fri no zwifting. Also need to increase calories now I've been told 70kg is a good weight.
More weight, more power, more rest?
Nah sticking to 70kg, just upping them to maintain this. I'm hoping that I've freed up a little bit more power now I'm not grinding my way through a crank arm lol. Definitely more rest though!
If crosshair races next weekend are you heading down too?
Yeah very possibly. Depends on my weekly trip to Luton as to timings etc.
@Nath- Indeed 😀 Crazy though considering it's the same actual power meter....
Once you get beyond the low hanging fruit, I think it is hard to train to both lose weight and gain power simultaneously so I think that sounds like a good plan.
The annoying thing about race series is that everyone else is training and improving too so the pressure is on just to tread water.
Not sooo much of an issue with nigh on 5w/kg on tap mind you 😉 😀
I don't have great expectations for Saturday after my illness. I averaged 281w for 35mins in last nights race so fingers crossed the damage has been minimal which means I can concentrate on holding a wheel reliably!
It would be so satisfying to hang with that bunch for full distance.........
@crosshair You got to choose the right wheel too! So many times I've chosen the wrong one and been swallowed by the bunch 😆
But fingers crossed mate, hopefully you can stick in there!
What's your training plan for this week?
So, the 8 week plan I had knocked up put this week as a Friel "Build 2" week so roughly
Mon- recovery/rest
Tue- Power intervals
Wed- Z2
Thu- Power intervals
Fri- Recovery
Sat- B Race
Sun- Z2
For a total hours of about 10.5. Given my last couple of weeks though, that might be a bit rich so I'll probably keep the frequency and intensities the same but knock the total hours back a little.
Sounds like a good plan!
I'm just commuting on Thurs/Fri (weather dependant) - no Zwifting 🙂
Mon - Commute + Zwift Race
Tues - Commute + Zwift Race
Wed - Commute + Recover
Thurs/Fri - Commute
Try that this time.
@tired - how much power do you think Rupert Graham (Sigma Sport) had to lap the field for Round 1 & 2?
I'm intrigued and almost tempted to just TT like I'm on Zwift next week to see what happens, what is the worst that can happen? 😯
Worst that can happen is that everyone will chase you down and I'll shoot out the back door as usual 😀
Seriously though- how fast can you ride solo??
You can do it! Pick a decent wheel and keep your head up watching what the field is doing (Tireds tip haha).
Something else, again tireds tip, is look where you're wanting to go not the back of the guy in front. My cornering was [b]MUCH [/b]smoother after that.
In truth I have no idea! I guess there's only one way to find out and get some good stats out of it for the power meter/future reference.
Looking at [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/824149964/analysis/1063/1663 ]yesterdays numbers[/url] though I know one thing, I wasted a TON of energy! My best 20 min segment was at 25.9mph 353W maxed out at 1,298W (est by strava) 😆
I was suffering but coping last time Nath. Then the pace would ramp up and my HR would go with it. Annoyingly, when I rejoined after my first drop- they were doing a pace I could easily sustain so I was probably only half a lap away from hanging most of the race.
TiRed's hints are indeed awesome but it's not subtle skills I need- it's one last huge gearshift. Then I can appreciate the finer points 😀
Average for the races is pretty consistently 25-26 isn't it? So you're going to need to average all of that solo for the entire race distance..... you may get the odd pull but once your intent becomes clear I imagine you'll be hung out to dry?
Looking at typical non aero TT results, 25mph for an hour should be doable on nathb's sort of power provided he's reasonably aero and cat 4 packs often finish with an avg speed slower than this. A chasing pack can go a lot quicker than this though if motivated.
That's the thing MrBlobby isn't it.. he needs to break with enough ferocity to get clear and THEN still have 25-26mph average ahead of the bunch.
I think you'll get caught and lose your nerve Nath......
Besides, once caught, you'd just as well recover at someone else's expense for a bit?
Which brings us back to that other guy...... just how powerful is HE 😀
(And definitely no offence intended Nath- I wouldn't have the balls to sit out in front of those hooligans 😀 )
No offence taken! Generally when I attack it's out of frustration at being spat out of the back after finding a crap wheel (on the edge).
I won't lose my nerve, just my legs. I ain't playing donkey for everyone if they catch up either.
I tried to find him on strava to no avail lol. The two big questions are:
1) How much power was required
2) For how long before rejoining the back of the pack
Then I'd have my answer.
One of my attacks was caught on camera this time, after Tired got bored of my company at the back and told me to go attack (red jersey with white arm bands):
http://www.davehaywardphotos.com/Cycling/Cycling-Circuits-/Imperial-Winter-Series-Hilling/i-j9jZ2Nd/A
http://www.davehaywardphotos.com/Cycling/Cycling-Circuits-/Imperial-Winter-Series-Hilling/i-4SBM363/A
You can almost see their "FFS not him again faces" 😆
Legend! 😀
Looking at yesterdays numbers though I know one thing, I wasted a TON of energy! My best 20 min segment was at 25.9mph 353W maxed out at 1,298W (est by strava
Looks like the guy that won did it on a NP of 238 watts and didnt break 900 for the sprint. So next time get on his wheel and do whatever he is doing!
If your goal is to place in the top 10 and you also feel like you have the power to attack and ride off the front of the bunch then it is sensible to save it all for late on rather than going for a lap when everyone is fresh. In that case going hard and early on the final lap (unless it is a strong headwind) is the way to go. If nothing else doing that is going to thin things out. A big proportion of the those left are hanging on and just happy to make it to the final lap, another large proportion cant sprint but have delusions that they can. These are the riders that are going to get in your way and turn a potential top 5 place into a top 20. A smaller proportion can actually sprint, but being sprinters most of them are lazy bastards who want a tow to the finishing straight. They are not wanting to burn any matches and jeapordise their chances by closing anything down themself. If you time it right you can take all these riders out the equation and in effect the race becomes you v a handful of others who have the power to respond and the willingness to bury themselves knowing if it comes back together they will be out of contention for the sprint.
The likelihood is that one or more of these guys are going to get on your wheel and then get you on the line but it can be a successful way of collecting some points and placings at 3/4 level.
How long is the course? If its say 1mile, then it will take an hour to gain a lap if you're going at 1mph faster....
Now, say you are able to sustain 300w average for the race distance....the riders on the front could be doing 350, 400, 450w but if they keep rotating round, only need to be capable of doing it for a minute or two...and all the while the bunch will be reeling you in.
The maths just makes a solo break seem like a futile endeavor. A break of 4 or 5 would be a different story, but there aren't many riders in 4th cat with both the confidence and the fitness to risk expending the effort to chance a getaway.
Average lap time for the 4ths at Hillingdon is about 2:14. On my TT bike, I lap in 2:05-2:10 in the Westerly 10-and-a-bit on the same. A hardened TT rider, if they get a good jump, will stay away. The winner of the first race, lapped the field in the second.
To win a race, you must be prepared to lose.
Dave takes great pictures. I'm not in any of them from the E123 (except a blur at the back on the finish).
Marshalling duty at the back
If I get a place on Saturday I'm turning up full of sugar and just going for it first lap - I'm prepared to lose out. I'll stick to my 340W /185bpm for a while and see where that gets me - folk weren't massively up for powering off on saturday - I pulled someone along but after realising we were far ahead of the pack I don't think he was massively up for doing a lot of work.
If I get caught I'll quiet down until the last handful of laps, nothing silly until then.
I must remember this air resistance thing by not standing up and also increase my cadence on those hills. 😳
I got a pic of you @tired ^^
I might just pull over to the side after the start and catch on to the bunch once you've dropped everyone and they have settled down 😀
Nah @crosshair - you'll be in the pack chasing down me down like the rest of them.... so selfish 😐
Haha.
Last weeks weight loss effort = 69.5kg, bang on what the app told me it would be lol. However today I feel broken.
In terms of exercise, do you think this is an okay plan?
Mon - commute 13 miles + Zwift (3.1 mile high intensity, followed by 10 mile cool down)
Tues - commute 13 miles + Zwift (13 mile TT (40 mins) followed by 20 min cool down)
Wed - commute 13 miles = Zwift 1 hour Zone 2
Thurs/Fri - commute only
Do you think that's enough recovery time for Saturday (if I get a place), struggling gauging training.. Last week I ended up doing 185 miles in total which is a bit excessive!
I'd move the effort to Thursday from Wednesday, and go harder than Zone 2. Easy recovery on Friday, and a decent night's sleep.
At the moment my week is about 14 hours
M: Rest
T: Commute, 90 min L3/4, 90 min L2
W: Commute L2
T: 60 km L2/3 commute
F: Commute L2/3 sprints
S: Race x2 (80 km L3/4)
S: 60-75 km L2/3
Commute is 33 km/day return, and I swap bikes from fixed to road to trike.
Trike ?
I'll try that, thanks @tired
Going to have a look at a club again when the clocks go back too.
Also intrigued, you have a trike?!
Oh you must have seen the pictures... Not exactly UCI legal, but this is my recovery machine. Bought in 2015 after The accident. It's been around Hillingdon a few times.
[img] 
?oh=2197c5234b85870b0fc8c95e33aeb243&oe=591EDDB6[/img]
Our club night is Tuesday and you are local 😉
Sadly, i bet you'd lap Hillingdon quicker than i can !
If it was UCI legal everyone would be racing on recumbents!
Just been watching the video on: http://www.davehaywardphotos.com/Cycling/Cycling-Circuits-/Imperial-Winter-Series-Hilling/
Crit racing looks terrifying!!! 😛
Anyone point me in the direction of a good book to read on it? 😳
Anyone point me in the direction of a good book to read on it?
This one is excellent, written by a local Hillingdon Coach. It will provide all you need to know.
I also liked [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reading-Race-Racing-Inside-Peloton/dp/1937715108/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483983300&sr=1-5&keywords=bike+racing ]Reading the Race[/url], but the above is a better introduction and tailored to Circuit racing by someone who knows their stuff.
Most training books focus on the engine, almost at the expense of everything else. They tend to omit more practical advice like pack your bag the night before 😉
And as for clipping in; well it has three wheels, so once clipped in, you don't unclip. It is very easy to ride. And always fun.
Bought! Thank you.
I've been reading up on tyre pressures.
I'm 70kg+10kg of bike &clothes on 25c tyres =
Front - 90 PSI
Rear - 100 PSI
Is that too much??
I'm 68kg and run F/R at 105/115 PSI on 25c Corsa G+. It's not about comfort, the surface is perfect. It is about reducing rolling resistance. For road, I lower these to 95/105.
I'm sticking to my 80 rear, 70 front on 28's. There's no science to suggest harder tyres roll faster....
For me, trusting them through the corners is number one priority.
I posted a link to the podcast in the other thread but here it is again.... fascinating stuff!
If you are feeling vibrations- you are losing watts!
Thanks both!
Just seen the forecast for Saturday - raining and 16mph winds. Definitely not TT'ing, the wind at Hillingdon is brutal is some sections! 😆
Pah! Last year, in one very memorable race there was a 30-40 mph headwind down the straight. Most people were riding on the inner ring and some were standing up! And it is slightly downhill. A little rain always makes it interesting.
Ouch, that sounds grim!!
I'd prefer dry conditions to be honest, the first race looked to be great!
I started reading that book last night! 😆
Okay I give up.
Just commuting today & tomorrow night, see how I feel Thursday - legs are tired from last week.
Will do some intervals Thurs and a gentle leg spin on Fri.
P.s. Booked in for Saturday now 🙂