[Closed] So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

Thanks TiRed. It was quite humbling sprinting up the hill after them and knowing they were gone for good 😀

Definitely going to rent a power meter in January, sounds like good information for analysis afterwards.

Do you always go out with the Cat 4s then race @tired?

Did you manage to get some practice laps in first @crosshair? I was running realllly late today, otherwise I was going to try and find you for some laps beforehand.

On a side note my new bike is epic, never had a bike that feels so light - yet doesn't feel like it's flexing at all under full acceleration. Looking forward to trying it up Broomfield tomorrow see if I can get a higher position on strava ha 😳

Yes thanks NathB. Did quite a few laps beforehand. I threw in a few sprint efforts but probably wish I hadn't bothered. I generally just like a quiet 30-40minute spin.

Do not worry about being dropped. Everyone does. Just race more. There really is no substitute, you just need to learn to hold position and follow a wheel. Club riding teaches you that.

We thought it might be good to have someone at the back giving advice, coaching (I'm a level 3 road and TT), generally looking for hazards and providing encouragement! I started racing the winter series as a fourth cat. I've raced Hillingdon at least 60 times in everything from the fourths to vets to E123 thrashfesrs at 29mph.

As for warm ups, normally a good 20 minutes BC world class warm up helps. Starts at Hillingdon are not normally 400 watts or you are gone. I didn't warm up at all!

As long as you are enjoying it, keep it up. I started aged 45 and never thought I'd race.

@TiRed - Do you know when the next prime coaching "race prep" sessions are?

You'll probably be sweeping me up next weekend 😆

Thanks TiRed.

I've booked for rd3 🙂

I think Prime are done until February. Don't worry. If you've done a sportive on a closed road, today race felt like that. I'm not allowed to coach on the wheel, but I'll be there next week too with the YGA offering helpful tips like "look up!" A few laps will help get the feel of the circuit.

Nathb Hopefully you'll enjoy it too and I'll see you on the 17th 😉
My diary is unusually kind this winter and I can potentially make the last five rounds too 🙂

@TiRed - see you there then - I'm all signed up for the 10th 😆

@crosshair - unfortunately I'm up north that weekend. Are you doing the 7th or 14th Jan?

14th but I've just found out that I may have to work that one so I'll do the last four rounds.

Okay so far, if I survive Saturday, it's looking like I can do all 6 next year.

Went out for a spin earlier on the new bike to double check everything is working okay, set a couple of PR's on broomfield but my legs are knackered so I'm going to be on light duties this week.

Starting to overthink things again, such as what to eat beforehand 😳

Sorry to hijack your thread mate, hope you don't mind me joining in 😀

I started to think of things I could have done differently but ultimately it wouldn't have helped me do the one thing I should have done which was get in the goddam draft 😉 😀

I'm a case study in the iron-gut approach to cycling nutrition- I'm fat enough to rarely bonk and rarely suffer ill effects from eating before or during cycling. I bought a box of flapjack bites from Sainsbury's on Saturday morning and ate about 1000 calories of those and a can of Redbull as pre race fuel 😀

For an hour race I don't do anything special, usual breakfast/lunch and maybe a gel a few minutes before the start.

Keep hydrated and ticking over during the week, don't ease off too much but get some decent efforts in by Thursday.

Light spin with a few 30 second sprints on Friday.

Not at all crosshair, any racing advice/questions highly welcome 🙂
Back when I was between 80-90kg I could do 50 miles fasted before the bonk effect. If I took a gel out with me I could do 60 miles. Now at 70kg I wouldn't dream of it, probably do about 20 miles before it would hit me like a wall, it's happened a couple of times after a few laps of Regent's Park after work.

Really @haze, my legs are knackered - was planning on ploughing through Mon/Tues with a couple of Zwift races then just doing some Zone 1/2 training Wed-Fri (I'll introduce some sprints of the back of your comment). This is alongside my regular commute into work 13 miles a day bar Wednesday where I'm at the other end of town and have to use public transport.

Cool, couple of easy days is good particularly at the end of the week...the short sprints will hopefully keep you on your toes.

For an hour race, about 800 Kcal, I don't tend to eat much more than normal, but the rule is two hrs before the race. Saturday I had a couple of croissants for breakfast, soup and bread and two weetabix for lunch, rode the 4ths then a gel for the E123. I could have probably! Done with another gel during the E123, but it was not so bad. I drank 600ml of nuun cola electrolyte drink.

Don't over think it, and do eat at 11 for the 1pm start.

Thanks @TiRed.

Overthinking is what I do 😆

My licence page has updated now too 😀

Kryton, do you have a link to this:

hunter allen test on TR

Anyone doing the Evans Cycles London Road Sportive - Sunday 15th January 2017 from Osterley Park?

https://www.evanscycles.com/evans-cycles-london-road-sportive-sunday-15th-january-2017-EV289332

hunter allen test on TR

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/23754-h-a-a-c-power-profile-test

Crosshair, looks like Outdoor Traders are going to run their winter crit series at Dalton Barracks near Abingdon again this year. Dates set to be 4th Feb, 11th Feb, 25th Feb & 4th March. Fairly local so may well be up for some of that 🙂

Cool thanks. That sounds spot on 🙂

Just been looking through the calendar for Hillingdon:

[b]Imperial Winter Series[/b]
03/12/2016
10/12/2016
17/12/2016
07/01/2017
14/01/2017
21/01/2017
28/01/2017
04/02/2017
11/02/2017

[b]BC West Thames [/b]
11/04/2017
18/04/2017
25/04/2017
02/05/2017
09/05/2017
16/05/2017
23/05/2017
30/05/2017
06/06/2017
13/06/2017
20/06/2017
27/06/2017
04/07/2017
11/07/2017
18/07/2017
25/07/2017
01/08/2017
08/08/2017

There's 27 races there, really didn't realise how many there was!

BCWT are every Tuesday evening. All spring and summer. There is a 3/4 race not for points, and an E123 race for points but no distinction between E12 and 3. The 3/4 race tends to be faster than the IWS 4th Cat race, with more tactics (which is a good thing). The E123 is typically a tuning session for a few big teams to come and thrash the field. And yes, last summer I double headed a few of them, along with others. One E123 race recorded my fastest ever average circuit race speed of 28.8 mph! It was as brutal as it sounds.

I quite fancy Dalton, as I used to live in Kingston Bagpuize, and it is always nice to go back.

Ah so as a 4th Cat you wouldn't progress to Cat 3 if you won any of those. That's a shame.

Where would a 4th cat go nearby to Hillingdon/West London to build up points?

You can go to Redbridge (Hog Hill, East London), Cyclopark (Gravesend) or Velopark (Olympic Park). There are also regular races in Preston Park (Brighton), Alexander Park (Portsmouth) and others. The last two are on outdoor oddly shaped velodromes.

Getting out of 4th Cat is not always easy. It took me 39 races 😉 . It took my clubmate two (he won them both!)

Took me 6, first three were on a day license where I found out I wasn't strong enough - I hadn't done any specific training but wanted to scratch the itch.

Next three (after a winter of training) went 4th, 5th, 3rd

If you're willing to travel and can get up to the Midlands there are some 4th only races at Stourport end of January - they're filling up quick though so get your skates on if you're interested.

Ah that's a shame, I was hoping that if I attended at least half of those at Hillingdon I could be in for a small chance (by sheer luck) of moving to cat 3 which seems to open a lot more race doors. There's a couple E123 ones up north where my folks live I wanted to turn up to (not to get ahead of myself).

I don't mind travelling a little bit, but it's less likely I can attend. Will see what the imperial series brings then go from there. 🙂

[url= http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-20162017/IWS-2016-2017/Imperial-Winter-Series-1/IWS-2016-7-1-MenCat4/i-smhWHqj/A ]crosshair [/url]looking comfortable in the bunch

[url= http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-20162017/IWS-2016-2017/Imperial-Winter-Series-1/IWS-2016-7-1-MenCat4/i-s5ndnnV/A ]YGA [/url]

[url= http://www.hughesartandphotos.com/Photos/Cycling/Cycling-20162017/IWS-2016-2017/Imperial-Winter-Series-1/Imperial-Winter-Series-201671-Me/i-5sL8xm8/A ]Race mode[/url]

Nath if you have the power to weight, and a little tactics, you'll progress a lot faster than me. But 4th cat at hillingdon is very competitive. There are 62 entries online for this week. A few spaces remaining.

Crosshair, assuming that is you with bare arms and legs. Easy to spot the mountain biker 🙂

Nath if you have the power to weight, and a little tactics, you'll progress a lot faster than me. But 4th cat at hillingdon is very competitive. There are 62 entries online for this week. A few spaces remaining.

As I think I said, practice your sprint. Decent power will help give you some time to think and get into the right position at the right time but you do need to be able to sprint (mine was woeful!)

Before I did a few the season before last I did think cat 4 would be pretty easy. Ultimately I found it a bit frustrating. Had enough power so the pace was easy and could get into the right place at the end of the race but my sprint was dreadful and I'd get swamped. I went for a long range attack a couple of times and almost made it but didn't quite have the legs to hold of the bunch to the line (at the time my 60MP was about 4.6w/kg @ 72kg - got more power, less mass, and a better position these days though 😈 ). Pretty negative racing too with few willing to try or help in a break and most just wanting to sit in for the sprint. I think if I'd have committed to it and tweaked the training a bit I'd have started to pick up points but I didn't really have enough free time to race crits and time trials.

Haha I remember seeing you now @crosshair. The thought of my god that guy is mad showing arms and legs as I'm sat here shivering in thermals. 😆

I've done a couple of virtual races, I know it's not the same by far but it's giving me decent & more importantly consistent stats to compare versus my FTP test (plus I really can tank it in my garage as I know I don't have to cycle home), also learning a little about tactics (as much as you do in a virtual environment):

Current weight: 70kg

FTP:
Duration: 20
Average: 338w

Race 1:
Duration: 21:44
Weighted average: 345w
95% 4.76w/kg
20m 350w
5m 5.24w/kg
2m 5.28w/kg
15s 7.68w/kg

Race 2:
Duration: 52:42
Weighted average: 316w
95% 4.69w/kg
20m 345w
5m 5.28w/kg
2m 5.45w/kg
15s 7.14w/kg

I'm expecting Saturday to be a BIG learning curve, and like I said I'm happy to sit mid pack not causing an accident and learn. Then hopefully regroup in January and try to come in the top 10. 😆

With those levels, I'd suggest attacking on the first lap and time trialing to victory! 😉 I'm about 4.3 Watts/kg. Real Watts measured in real races. You will be fine. Say hello before the race and be sure to stay in front of me!

@TiRed - I'm renting a power meter for Jans races to compare.
Now I know what you look like I'll say hello. 🙂

Haha that'd be the dream! I'm not sure though, part of me doesn't believe those stats - but I can always try 😆

With those levels, I'd suggest attacking on the first lap and time trialing to victory!

Death or glory but it's not a bad idea 🙂 Leave it too late and the bunch speeds up considerably in the last few laps (last lap up to about 30mph) so it's harder to get the gap you need to stay away.

Start to finish, the cat 4's I've done have tended to average out around between 24 and 27 mph. If you can go faster than that for 50 mins you're sorted 🙂 (though you will be giving the bunch a nice carrot to chase!)

Edit... FWIW I can remember our local WC XC rider doing just that in his first ever cat 4 race round Thruxton having fancied a go at a crit. I think he needed an NP of about 380W to stay clear for the 50 minutes.

@mrblobby the only chance of that is if you managed to catch the back of the main group and tag along? I don't think I've got it in me for 50 mins.

Only one way to find out 🙂

Death or glory but it's not a bad idea

[url= https://www.strava.com/activities/792512888 ]Average on Saturday was 25 mph[/url]. It felt slower to be honest.

If you lap the field you win! It's pretty rare for a solo rider at Hillingdon. Very common at Preston Park.

Average on Saturday was 25 mph. It felt slower to be honest.

Not to Crosshair 😉

Already got my racing screen ready on my computer:
Speed
Cadence
Heart Rate
Elapsed Time
Distance

So you're saying attack (if possible) around the 38 min mark?

I think I was more riding 'with' the bunch than 'in' it 😀

I averaged 21mph for the 16miles I did. You can see from my lap times when I was working with someone to try and push on and when I was wondering whether to just call it a day right there and then 😀

[img] [/img]

Not to Crosshair

🙂 That's the thing if the bunch is doing 25mph and you're off the back it can be rather hard to get back on. Similarly going off the front at that speed needs a big effort too.

Worked last week.

Just need good timing, a bit of luck, and some strong legs 🙂

It wasn't particulate easy to get back on when they lapped me either 😀 (x4 😀 )

It wasn't particulate easy to get back on when they lapped me either (x4 )

As the bunch comes up behind you, start sprinting. Get off the racing line to allow the bunch to come through smoothly and you should be at full tilt by the time the first third or so of the bunch are through.

Behind that there will be a few gaps, riders jostling for position and leaving spaces so it should be OK to just slot in and adjust to the speed of the bunch. Kind of like joining a motorway from the sliproad and merging to the middle lane. Ideally, you should be looking to join the bunch again while they are negotiating the bends or on a slight downhill section where you'll be able to match their speed more easily.

You should then get about 15 seconds respite while the bunch moves around you to recover from the initial sprint up to speed and find your place. If you mis-time it, that 15 seconds will see you out the back door again!

Thanks. Yes, I was just trying not to get I anyone's way 😉 🙂

Eurgh, I've just seen the weather forecast for Saturday! 🙁