[Closed] Should I get some XT brakes?

I wonder why the XTs got a better review (and score) than all of the hope brakes?

Because they are 40 quid an end cheaper? That seems to be the only reason because they rave about the reliability and power of the Race Evo X2s.

And yes the Race Evo X2s are as powerful as the Shimanos.

"All the brakes were tested with a 180mm rotor and a 50Nm force on the lever (1N is the amount of force required to accelerate 1kg at 1m/s2), with the stock pads"

Hope X2 Race Evo 110 nm

Shimano XT M785 107 nm

You lose.

£200 per end vs £70odd?
They should have scored a good few stars more than the hopes that's for sure!
I paid less than half of what you did for my brakes for equal performance. I reckon I win. 😆

We're talking just brake caliper/lever right? 70 quid for the SLX and about 99 quid for the XT right? I wanted bite point adjustment, they only come on the XT's. 140 for the race Evos or in my case the tech v2s, so thats 40 quid an end more. The bite point adjuster doesn't even work on the XTs.

If I bought the shimanos factor in a small fortune for the finned pads! I'd make up the difference in brake system cost on the price of the shimano finned pads when out in the Alps for a couple of months (aka this summer).

I thought of long term costs, you just thought of initial costs. Who's the fool now?

So basically, if I bought two sets of finned pads for the front and rear I'd spend 120 quid. That's value for money there. 😆 In one year of riding I could go through far more, so in terms of cost I could get better heat performance by going to V2's and even have some money spare to spend on Castrol SRF or Motul 600 brake fluid.

Well XTs are available from rise bikes for less than £70 per end. As has been stated long ago, you do not need finned pads. Normal pads are available for the same price as hope ones, that are fine particularly if you don't drag too much.

you just thought of initial costs. Who's the fool now?

So even the X2 Race are more powerful, better built, better looking, more serviceable, and have better modulation than the XT's.

The only thing is the price, but you expect to pay more for a superior product 😉

Bwaaarp, you've got a software issue that you've fixed with hardware. No problem with that, but recommending the same hardware to people who don't have the software issue doesn't make any sense.

Shimanos are for simple people, Hope's are for the intelligent discerning type that doesn't like to throw away parts needlessly and who know their way round a bike mechanically. So there.

To be fair, its the other way round. If you know your stuff, you buy shimano cos they are cheap and get on with the job. The simpletons buy the hopes because they are wooed by the "cnc machining" "made in the uk" "best of british" "fancy anodizing" etc. etc.

I bought some hope minis cos I saw a decent deal 2nd hand and wanted to try them. My 5 year old XT's were better (but its too late now) If you kancker a seal or whatev,er a replacement caliper costs **** all anyway.

If you want form over function, buy some hopes. If you're "in the know" then you'll buy Shimano as they work really well and cost **** all. Basically, you've got to be a bit of an idiot to be able to justify spending all that extra money on hope brakes.

Really? Because last time I checked, the XT's were having their fair share of problems with reliability?

Why did they feel the need to go with finned pads and Icetech rotors? Possibly because of the fact that they use mineral oil that has a low boiling temperature, whilst the rest of the mountain biking and motor racing world uses DOT fluid. I somehow doubt the Shimanos, without the icetech rotors and finned pads dump less heat into the hydraulics than other competing brands that use DOT fluid.

I'm glad you lot your plasticy disposable pieces of crap! 😉 Enjoy them!

Bwaaarp, you've got a software issue that you've fixed with hardware. No problem with that, but recommending the same hardware to people who don't have the software issue doesn't make any sense.

I replaced my brakes for mostly hardware reasons. My Oros needed too much maintenance, more than any of my hopes did and the pistons sticking on a ride was the final straw.

I wasn't making any such advice, the OP was wondering whether he should stay with his Hopes. Brakes that he is happy with. The XT's are not much lighter, replacing the goodridge hoses would bring the weights closer if not together and both systems appear to be as powerful.

So what's the point of changing? According to some on here though Hope's are so shit and XT's are so amazing that you should dump your hopes right away and spend another 200 quid on a new brake system. What's the point when the one you have is just as good, maybe worse in some respects and better in others.

Anyone who thinks hopes are underpowered has not used a set that were working properly. I have them on all my bikes - reliable and work well. Long pad life as well

some folk mistake the soft lever feel which means greater modulation but less initial bite as a lack of power. Me I like the modulation and don't like the feel of shimanos but that is about preference.

Mr Plow, I've used both the resin and sintered pads. I have got good life out of both.

The pads costing a fortune.... I generally pay about £24 IIRC vs about £18 for normal manufacturer pads. You can also get cheaper pads without the fins if you want.

I'm very happy with my XT's. I've just bought another set to standardise the brakes across both my bikes. No issues, although it does seem like there have been some quality issues with seals on some brakes. I'd be very wary about basing a decision on dyno tests! There are so many factors which tell you how good a brake is and I just can't see those being replicated under pristine lab conditions!

Would I change to XT from Hope? Probably not. I've heard good reports of the new hope too. I went for XT based on cost and performance and so far it's been a good decision for me. I'd used Avid before and the XT's are a big step up in reliability. I did a write up on my 'site if you're interested. It doesn't compare them to the Hope's, it's just about the XT's. [url= http://www.basquemtb.com/shimano-xt-m785-disc-brakes/ ]XT Brake Reveiw[/url]

I can guarantee in a couple of years of riding something will go wrong with the Shimanos as well.

Really?

I have 6 pairs of Shimano brakes, some date back to the old 4 pot XT in about 2003. None of them has ever gone wrong, none has ever even needed a bleed just a change of pads every few months.

I didn't boil the brakes in the Alps, the guides I was with used Shimano after too many Hope failures.

You don't need finned pads or Ice-tech rotors, certainly not for UK riding anyway.

All the Shimano failures you go on about; is that maybe because there are far more Shimano brakes out there than Hope brakes?

Hope used to be notorious for boiling the brakes which is why they brought out the phenolic pistons. They denied there were any problems and blamed the user for a long time though.

Hope also had huge issues with the original Mini with squealing problems. Again always blamed on bad set up/not facing the mounts etc, but strangely no other brake had this problem on the same mounts.

I'm not anti Hope at all, but please don't do the Hope are perfect, Shimano are unreliable thing. Any individual brake can have issues but to say that you can guarantee Shimano brakes will go wrong makes you look a bit foolish and hysterical.

some folk mistake the soft lever feel which means greater modulation but less initial bite as a lack of power. Me I like the modulation and don't like the feel of shimanos but that is about preference.

Maybe at mincing speeds but I like brakes that work when I want them, not 20yds later.,..

I have had a few sets of Hope's, inlcuding the Tech M4's & V2's.

I don't have any Hope brakes any more. From experience they require a reasonable amount of TLC to keep them working, and I can't be bothered with that, when there are alternatives out there that don't.

The V2's were powerfull, but riding, and racing DH and extended alpine holiday's I don't need that amount of power, so I sold them off mine, and my wife's bikes. They are also boat anchors in terms of weight.

I chucked a 6 year old set of Saint's back on her bike, and I have a set of 4 year old M775 XT's on mine. Neither have ever had anything done, apart from a couple of bleeds & new pads.

Like anything, the sheer number of Shimano brakes out there, there will be people with problems, but then they are probably selling brakes in multiples of thousands over the likes of Hope, who to be fair also have their fair share of issues.

I'm not sure why the point is being laboured about the finned pads being required & expensive, you don't have to use them? Much like the vented or floating rotors, they are mostly marketing b*llocks for an MTB.

As for people boiling brakes, there could be a case for using them properly rather than hanging on for dear life, dragging and wobbling your way down a hill...

I've run hope brakes for years, then I got some XT brakes on ebay cheaply for my run about / shop bike, absolutely loved them. At the time I was learning braking and developing my braking techniques and they were so much better than the hope brakes on my actual AM/XC bike.

Then I bought a DH bike and it came with Hope Moto's, so I ran them for a couple of months, they are awful brakes, back in the day they where better than hayes or avid, maybe even the older shimano brakes.

But compared to the newer shimano brakes, hahahaha! they are all show and no go, shiny, flashy, fancy pants expensive, the choice of champion chumps!

Sing it with me!

Hope! they're shiny, flashy, fancy pants expensive, the choice of champion chumps!

Buy a cheapo set of XT brakes of ebay, one of my sets costs £42 the first set I got and the other set cost £88 and they are like new.

Seems everywhere you look the new shimano brakes are getting good reviews, does anybody know if the discs are centre lock only as surely that would mean new hubs? Or can u get 6bolt/ adaptors?

I can guarantee in a couple of years of riding something will go wrong with the Shimanos as well.

Someone I ride with bought some XT's and on every single ride so far he has had to piss about with them because they haven't been working properly. When they do work they are on and off like a switch, my X2's not only have as much power, they feel 10 times better. He even said he wished he bought X2's.

Seems everywhere you look the new shimano brakes are getting good reviews

But Hope are winning the tests. Even that isn't enough for some, Hope must be paying them off 🙄

All my wheels are 6 bolt rotors, if you have 6 bolt hubs then you run 6 bolt rotors, I'm running hope and aligator rotors with mine!

Doug, thanks for the reply. I have been running the std resin pads so far and they are lasting very well but have not done any wet alpine DHs with them.

To the OP - don't see the point in you changing. There are enough people on here fighting to show both are pretty good.

STW Issue 70

XT M785

The XT callipers are pretty and the levers are cutely compact,
resembling small pistols. Remember the first time you tried
Saint brakes and thought ‘**** me they’re pretty powerful’?
Well, the new XTs have a similar feel. Initially power is good
and then it just keeps coming. We couldn’t imagine needing
that much power at first, but you do get used to it although
it’s quite hard to make use of it in a useful and controlled
manner. These are ideal for speed-scrubbers. At first braking
is very binary and really feels like a switch, with little middle
ground for feeling what the brake is actually doing. This does
improve as you get used to it but not a great deal. The levers
are small and sweet and ideal for one finger braking, as well as
mating neatly with Shimano’s shifters. The IceTech ‘keeping
it cool’ technology in the rotors and pads is a good idea for
Alpine riding but most UK riders will be fine to replace the
supplied finned pads with cheaper, un-finned versions.
Overall: A powerful brake best paired with a skilled, fast
rider who doesn’t brake very much. A tad too grabby for
milder riding/riders though.

Hope X2 Race

There’s no denying that Hope brakes will always look cool
to certain riders. If you like engineering, you love Hope.
The Race Evo levers are Hope’s best ever lever in our
opinion: minimalist and crisp, without being spindly or
harsh-edged. The drilled blade can feel odd to un-gloved
fingers (although who doesn’t wear full finger gloves these
days?), but the shape of the lever is just perfect. Reminiscent
of old Shimano XT V-brake levers, but even better. The X2
calliper doesn’t deliver quite as much power as other brand’s
top-end offerings but it’s more than ample for cross-country/
trail riding. It’s the feel and feedback of the lever that is
this system’s trump card. You know exactly how the rotor
is interacting with the pad and, as a result, you know even
more about what’s going on with your tyre traction. There’s
no adjustment on offer apart from Allen key reach adjust
but thankfully the lever feel is simply spot on. The rotors do
a great job of keeping the levels of power and feel nice and
high, too.
Overall: Destined to be a classic brake. Nigh-on perfect
for virtually all UK riding and riders. Good weight,
decent power and immense feel.

Conclusion

There are four clear and distinct favourites in this test. On the power
front, the Shimano XT brakes were definitely the most effortlessly
powerful units we tested. If you ride very fast, never scrub speed or
drag your brakes, and generally rarely brake unless you absolutely
have to then you’ll love the XTs. If you’re on a budget, the Gusset
Hydro Chute brakes are brilliant. Power, feel, consistency - pick three.
In the mid-range ‘everyman’ class, it’s a fine line between the Avid
Elixir 7 and the Hope Race Evo X2. The Avids shade it on the power
front but the Hopes edge ahead on the feel front. It’s easy to find an
argument for either brake but ultimately, we’re giving the final nod
to the Hopes. As well as a proven track record in serviceability, spares,
warranty back up and ease-of-bleeding that comes with Hope brakes,
they just felt better more of the time. Stick a bigger rotor up front if
you want/need more power.

Someone I ride with bought some XT's and on every single ride so far he has had to piss about with them because they haven't been working properly. When they do work they are on and off like a switch, my X2's not only have as much power, they feel 10 times better. He even said he wished he bought X2's.

That sounds very much like they have not been bled properly, especially if your x2 feel as powerful.

I kind of wish I hadn't asked now, who would have thought people would be so passionate about their brake brand!

I have the Dyfi coming up so will postpone any decisions until after that. Thanks for all the replies.

Formula The Ones have the best power/weight ratio out there I think - and they must be the best cos I've got them. Miles more powerful than my mate's XTs btw.

I find mt XT brakes thoroughly brilliant on all fronts, a big thumbs up from Fairhurst
wonderful

These are ideal for speed-scrubbers

No wonder the XT's are so popular on here...

Thats the test I was on about Flow, did you type all that out yourself from the magazine? 😕

Well, the new XTs have a similar feel................
it’s quite hard to make use of it in a useful and controlled
manner. .........At first braking
is very binary and really feels like a switch, with little middle
ground for feeling what the brake is actually doing.

Hope X2 Race

It’s the feel and feedback of the lever that is
this system’s trump card. You know exactly how the rotor
is interacting with the pad and, as a result, you know even
more about what’s going on with your tyre traction.

This is the key thing for me but no doubt its a bit of a personal preference thing.

And apparently you And flow are posting from the same IP address.

You need to sign up to that register you were on about.

For those of you reading this thread, flow and skywalker ars the same person.

Thats the test I was on about Flow, did you type all that out yourself from the magazine?

No I copy and pasted it from the PDF

And apparently you And flow are posting from the same IP address.

You need to sign up to that register you were on about.

For those of you reading this thread, flow and skywalker ars the same person.

Yawn.

Indeed, you need help

I have two sets of the the latest XTs. The oldest is about 7 months.

TBH I don't recognise them as the same brakes from the reviews.

I find them smooth, easily modulated but not squishy. They're only slightly more powerful than the formula Oros they replaced, rather than these 'eye-popping power' XTs I read about.

I've always preferred a slightly more firm brake - always liked the feel of Hayes HFX for example, but the XTs aren't really that much more firm than the oros.

According to the reviews, this makes me a 'fast rider that doesn't brake much' and this couldn't really be further from the truth.

Just goes to show you cant always believe the reviews.

The thing about reviews is that you get what you pay for, if a reviewer is recieving a good amount of freebies or even money from a certain company, I think that might have an impact on the reviews.

For example no matter what goes wrong CRC are still the best company for service 😆

Before I forget, OP! YES YOU SHOULD!!!!!!

+1

Before I forget, OP! YES YOU SHOULD!!!!!!

I bought mine from Rosebikes, lever swap over kit & free backpack £118 posted - extremely happy.

So we're going with which one "feels" more powerful as opposed to dyno testing then?

I'll start taking homeopathic medicine then cuz it feels like it works.

We have 2 reviews; STW and MBUK. Both reckon the XTs are the better brake. They are also cheaper.
We should ignore all that because someone who admittedly doesn't know how to use brakes properly says that the reviews are wrong. Who also hasn't tried the new XT brakes either.
🙄

Umm I've used them. I spent about 2 months trying out different brake systems by jumping on friends bikes until my oros pissed me off for the final time.

So the MBuk dyno tests show that the Hope is more powerful whilst the Singletrack reviews reckon it's better modulating.

You know, I reckon the only reason the XT scored half a star more in the Mbuk review is because it's cheaper. On all other counts it isn't as good as the Hope, especially if you are spending time out in the alps.

So get back to me when you have a tiny little bit more proof that XT's are more powerful than the Race Evo's. In the mean time I will carry on not listening to you.

Recently went from 2012 XT's to Hope race evo X2's, and am made up with them. Running 180 Air rotors, they are more than powerful enough with great linear modulation. You can feel whats happening right up to the point of wheel lock-up, and control it. The XT's I found too grabby initially, the when pushing things a bit harder, they didn't seem to have any more power, they felt spongy, which wasn't for the need of bleeding, it was those tiny levers flexing when pulled hard. Another point worth noting if your a weight weenie, the XT's were heavier than my old mono M4's. The race evo X2's are VERY light.

Posted on another thread....

HA in your face wrecker!

Hope brakes and the Alps? That's why I have Shimano brakes.

i've tried xt, slxz hope and elixirs. i prefer the xt as i like the 1 finger braking iy helped me stop dragging brakes which has improved my riding whereas felt i needed to do this with elixirs and hope as they didn't feel as powerful and easy to control to me. i do like the look of hopes but the xts are shiny too.

This kind of reminds me of one of those PS3/ Xbox 360 bun fights you get on gaming forums

Great enjoy them! I'm sure using mineral oil in the cold British weather is a brilliant idea! Try putting some in your fridge and see what happens.

What's in my face?
Who's fivespot? Why on earth does his opinion mean more to you than that of at least 2 MTB journalists?
I'm not saying that XTs are more powerful than anything, I'm saying that in my experience (having [b]Owned[/b] several different brakes) that they're better than the tech M4s I have had. Many of us know that there's far more to a brake than raw power. Some have still to learn this so it seems.

Yeah, like modulation which is much better on the Hopes.

I've owned/my family has owned what has bordered on a dozen Hope brakes. Never had many problems with them at all.

I guess it's personal preference that is all but saying all "Hopes are shit stay away, spend another 200 quid of your money" when your current brakes are fine.....makes no sense AT ALL.

His older Tech V2's are perfectly decent brakes. Formulas needed the most TLC of any brake I've had but I would of perhaps gone for some of "The Ones" or "R0's" but my preference came down to the feel of the Tech Evo V2s. That's all, I was looking for a brake that was CONSIDERABLY more powerful than my Oros. Only the Codes, The Ones, R0s or Evo V2s fell into that category. I might have gone for Saints but I didn't want to spend the money on a system that was going to be replaced and the Mbuk review was kind of vague about their power.

I haven't recommended that he buy new brakes. I haven't said that hope brakes are shit.
The truth is, all modern hydraulic disc brakes are good in different ways. My XTs stop my 14 and a half stone as quickly as my formula the ones did.