Finally, but £600???
[url= http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/gear-news/shimano-unveil-hydraulic-road-disc-brake-compatible-wheelset-and-electronic-sti-lever.html?utm_campaign=newsletter_20130701&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter_rcuk ]Shimano R785[/url]
Finally, but [s]£600[/s][b]why[/b]???
FTFY
One for the MAMIL's, sportiverists and CX'ers.
£600 RRP seems reasnoble when you considder the RRP of icetech XT brakes (£170/end) and Di2 levers (£300/pair).
and tourers, audaxers, commuters and anyone else who likes their rims to last!
but yeah, £600 is a bit steep, for now Avid will have to do.
Why v-brakes?
Why discs on mtbs?
Why suspension?
Why gears?
None of the above are necessary, all improve function, for many people at least. YMMV...
I've been quite suprised by how much I appreciate having discs on my cx bike which is arguably also my main road bike given that I ride it far more on road (with road tyres and a roadie position) than my proper road bike.
The £600 includes electronic shifters/brake levers. They aren't cheap even with the mechanical brakes.
I won't be changing my bike just to get discs but I reckon that when I eventually get my next road frame, it will be one that takes discs.
Interesting the shifters & brakes are 'ultegra' level (and the caliper looks like an XT). Yet the wheels are cheaper judging by the pricing...
EDIT - maybe not so significant - I hadn't realised Ultegra wheels were that sort of price.
I don't deny there are advantages, but compared to off road? MTB rims used to last a winter of just once a week use for me and pads regulalry lasted under a ride. I've never actualy consigned road wheels to the bin due to wear and I suspect I'm into the top end of the mileage bell curve.
SRAM Red is £430 an end, 11speed and the rear-d is £300!
SRAM S-700 10speed is £300 a brake but you get more choice of mechs including their 10spd mtb gear (clutched/disc'd crosser anyone?)
So dont expect cheaper for at least 12 months.
early adopters premium?
I'm finding the CX75/105STI combo excellent for mechanical equivalent.
early adopters premium?
Pretty sure the higher end group-sets have always been expensive?
nice one, now when are they going to do a none STI version for ssers?
wheels look interesting, well front one does. doesn't say if it's UST, presume not.
thisisnotaspoon, my commuter (with rigida flyers - cheapest rims available?) went through a set of rims in less than a year. most of tge wear being in winter. that's riding 160-170 miles per week. admittedly I didn't clean the rims every day (or even every week, come to that) but fortnightly at least. at one point, I was cleaning them daily and halfway during the subsequent journey tge sscchhurpp, sscchhurpp would start again. so I stopped. I am currently building a disc braked commuter which should be done for this winter and I can't wait for hydraulics to trickle down to my budget!
I've never actualy consigned road wheels to the bin due to wear and I suspect I'm into the top end of the mileage bell curve.
I have - the rear wheel blew up on my road bike due to the rim wearing through. The rear wheel on my CX bike is wearing thin too, the only reason it's still useable is because it had a ceramic coating on it and that's now completely worn off.
Me too - when I was riding lots, a rim (open pros usually) lasted about a year, maybe 18 months if I was lucky but I was riding in all weathers.
They make one hell of a bang when they go. One went at home when I was pumping the tyres up and my ears were ringing for a couple of hours after. A long strip around 1/3 of the circumference of the wheel blew off...
wwaswas - Member
early adopters premium?
To some extent yes - both for disc brakes and electronic shifting. I'm using BB7s on my cx/road bike and tbh they seem pretty bomb proof even without hydro cabling and used offroad (CX) too.
I picked up a pair of R505 callipers off an ex-display bike from a shop in the states via ebay for the princeley sum of £17.50.
Wouldn't mind some CX75/R515s but for the price, I couldn't say no. Running 140mm Ashima air-rotors and they work really, really well.
early adopters premium?
Definately!
And it's not really "Just" £600, comes to ~£880 once you bung another £280 on for their wheels;
The Shimano WH-RX31 costs £129.99 for the front wheel and £149.99 for the rear. The 28-hole hubs will be available to buy separately at £54.99 for the front and £94.99 for the rear.
Might as well call it £900 to get "matching" shimano discs on an already Di2 equiped bike, where many of the target market consumers are still not completely sold on the need for this sort of product, pricing it that high seems liable to put most of them off further TBH...
That Caliper doesn't look a million miles away from an SLX or XT TBH, the Rotors are obviously similar to their MTB cousins (all be it in 140mm size)... I'm not saying they've been lazy, you use whatever you know works, but The only really unique/novel feature of the whole ~£900 package is the lever, which ties you to Di2 of course, and it will have been far easier to get a couple of micro switches in there rather than cramming a master cylined and a cable shifter mechanism...
It would be wiser be for shimano to priorotize development/release of a 105/tiagra level Hydraulic disc/Mechanical gear actuating STI in a lower price bracket to attract more MAMILS, commuters and CX riders, obviously their mechanical disc calipers already cater for that market to a certain extent already but affordable hydraulics without Di2 might drive adoption better than expensive bling.
Shimano are in danger of missing several boats IMO by not putting together a few of their key technologies in the right sort of packages and price brackets in time to corner some key markets...
Decent Hydaulic Road/CX discs coupled with cable shifting could be a big seller for them, via the OEMs, as Commuters and MAMILS will buy bikes with hydraulic discs and robust mechanical shifting especially if it can be done on sub £1K road/CX bikes, that would win them more sales than this High price point Di2 only offering...
They also need to get the XTR/XT Di2 MTB products out out before SRAM filter 11 speed down their MTB groups and nab more market share that way...
All IMO of course.
...I've never actualy consigned road wheels to the bin due to wear...
my 2 year old open-pros are getting noticeably worn. And i'd rather replace them before i get ...
one hell of a bang when they go
...
so that'll be £90 on rims, plus spokes (£60?), plus building (£50?), in my near future.
great.
rim brakes make discs look cheap.
I have - the rear wheel blew up on my road bike due to the rim wearing through.
Me too. It went bang in the middle of the night when it was parked in my hallway - soiled sheets time!
The new disc/ di2 group is undoubtedly expensive, but new technology always is.
I think they look okay apart from the gash cooling fins. I'll be buying whatever the cheapest Giant TCR bike that comes with either these or the Avids. I'm over rim brakes.
Shimano are in danger of missing several boats IMO by not putting together a few of their key technologies in the right sort of packages and price brackets in time to corner some key markets
I'd argue that they have done just that!
Hydraulic discs
Di2
around £1k to fit plus wheels?
Mamil territory right there!
What sort of market do you think there is? Current Ui2 sti are £300 to Mech 105's £230. Not exactly going to half the cost of the whole group by introducing it at 105 are they?
Exactly, as said earlier it is comparatively cheap when you bear in mind that the shifter is Di2.
I suspect that there simply isn't an easy way to do this with mechanical shifters for packaging reasons, which is why this has come out as Di2 only.
That said, the price of the Di2 shifters seems out of whack to me, considering that the two mechanical buttons must be far cheaper to construct and fit into a shifter than the mechanical versions, the shifters should be a lot cheaper and then this should be a much cheaper package.
Won't make me any faster.
Won't make my life any better.
Still want it though...
my open pros are pretty much mint, a few thousand miles in. No wear on the rims that I can see. Cos of the disc brakes.
I will wait til it trickles down to 105 or thereabouts.
Well I think it's great. I'd have been happy with mechanical shifters but in the same way discs will become the norm, I think electronic shifting will as well. I'll give it a season to settle down but I know what I want fir my big birthday next year. Nice carbon road bike with a frame built specifically for hydro discs and Di2.
Nice carbon road bike with a frame built specifically for hydro discs and Di2.
Yes, I want one of those too. 🙂
^same except custom steel pls
i'm gonna get my equilibrium frame brazed up with an IS mount!
(probably cost more than a new frame 🙂 )
Why IS mounts? Looks like road bikes will all be post mounts.
you sure? Not from what I've seen. eg:
velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/bikes-and-tech/first-look-bianchi-oltre-xr2-now-with-disc-brakes_290582
SRAM and Shimano are post mount calipers. Hope are as well. I can't think of anyone making IS calipers right now. Surely frame manufacturers will make what suits the brakes.
Am I sure? No, like anyone else, it's my best guess. And my road bike has IS mounts and old hope calipers.
Just replaced my front open pro after 4 years and about 25,000 miles, I guess it depends on where you ride as too how long a wheel will last.
I can see some benefits to discs, my next bike will probably have discs, but I won't be buying a new bike to get discs as I don't see enough point.
Clubber, that's a post mount rear on that Bianchi.
yeah, sorry, misread your post...
It would be wiser be for shimano to priorotize development/release of a 105/tiagra level Hydraulic disc/Mechanical gear actuating STI in a lower price bracket to attract more MAMILS, commuters and CX riders, obviously their mechanical disc calipers already cater for that market to a certain extent already but affordable hydraulics without Di2 might drive adoption better than expensive bling.Shimano are in danger of missing several boats IMO by not putting together a few of their key technologies in the right sort of packages and price brackets in time to corner some key markets...
Drop bar'd commuting and touring is a peculiar british thing, the rest of the world does it on flat bars.
I'd say Ultegra is the perfect level to pitch it at, the pro's (DA) don't want it, the proles (<105) can't afford it, MAMIL's with more money than sense will lap it up.
I have - the rear wheel blew up on my road bike due to the rim wearing through.
I got close once, but they usually seem to suffer a ding from a missed pothole, or just go out of true once too often.
so that'll be £90 on rims, plus spokes (£60?), plus building (£50?), in my near future.
Even if you did pay that much (I paid half that for spokes, rims cost whatever you want to spend, and building yourself isn't beyond anyone with fingers and a brain), then that's still 6 years (or 12 if you can build yourself and don't pay over the odds for spokes) to pay off the brakes. Assuming the disks last that long, my first shimano brakes lasted 8 years before a seal went, and that's without road salt/grime attaching them, and the braking surface of ice tech rotors is seriously thin and they're £50 an end (so more than rims!).
£600?
Erm...for a mechanical set-up, try: 105 calipers £180, £45 on rotors, £200 on stis.
It's not that much more.
Surely the point of road disks is a move to carbon rims with proper braking. Di2 just makes it easier to package, although personally, I'd prefer cables, given the internal routing for my frame.
My next road bike will be disk braked, once they've been UCI sanctioned, but I won't be troubling UCI events anytime soon.
Does anyone pay RRP for Shimano stuff anyway? And besides I'd say the majority of it will be going to manufacturers,its not really an upgrade groupset, you'll see full bikes about £2k soon enough I reckon.
Even if ... etc. ... then that's still 6 years (or 12 if you can build yourself and don't pay over the odds for spokes) to pay off the brakes. Assuming the disks last that long... etc. ... and the braking surface of ice tech rotors is seriously thin and they're £50 an end (so more than rims!).
that's assuming i'd be buying the £600 hydraulic/Di2 setup.
my winter-bike's got discs; sora sti units, operating bb5 calipers, running cheapo 6-bolt discs, and deore hubs.
it's all quite cheap, it all works very, very well.
as others have said not seen one go bang yet - thankfully, used to get cheapy rims on my commuter and they went pretty slowly, normally braking would get pulse-y as the rims started to deform then a couple of weeks/months later when cracks started to appear I'd get around to replacing them 🙂one hell of a bang when they go
you've really got it in for disc brakes huh? repeatedly chucking in the mamil reference just sounds like trollage. On my (looked after) road bike rims and brakes last for ages, that's fair enough. On my neglected commuter rims lasted a couple of years tops, pads didn't last long at all and when I switched to grittier NCN routes pads lasted a week and rim wear accelerated. Disc brakes are definitely a good move commuter wise, maybe less so for roadies until weight decreases but not sure I'd get a new road bike without them.MAMIL's with more money than sense will lap it up
TBH 8 years doesn't sound [i]too[/i] bad IMO, pity seals aren't officially* replaceable on shimano brakes, seals went on one brake in cold weather got a new xt caliper for about £35. But yeah the salt thing will be an interesting one to watch for.my first shimano brakes lasted 8 years before a seal went, and that's without road salt/grime attaching them
*dunno if it's bodgeable
impressive wear rate (and mileage) mrmo, was that road rides or commuting? Think people who do long undulating country road routes with little braking (and nice weather) will get a lot more out of their gear than stop start heavy traffic riding in rainy manchester, YMquiteobviouslydoesVJust replaced my front open pro after 4 years and about 25,000 miles, I guess it depends on where you ride as too how long a wheel will last.
D0NK - Member
one hell of a bang when they go
as others have said not seen one go bang yet - thankfully, used to get cheapy rims on my commuter and they went pretty slowly, normally braking would get pulse-y as the rims started to deform then a couple of weeks/months later when cracks started to appear I'd get around to replacing them
As you say, you've not had one go. They don't do this IME.
I've seen a few threads on road discs which point to MAMIL's chomping at the bit to get them. However most of the MAMIL's I see seem to be chasing the full pro peloton look*. So until they are on the pro's bikes, will they bite?
* by this I mean team kit and top end bike, although often top end bike is the 'comfort' geometry model or has a hefty collction of spacers under the stem 😉
by this I mean team kit and top end bike, although often top end bike is the 'comfort' geometry model or has a hefty collction of spacers under the stem 😉
And an extra chainring... 😉
