That is all. Feel better now. Remind me why cup and cone is good?
It's ok if you pack 'em with more grease, adjust them propply and that. Last for years. I prefer cartridge bearing hubs mind.
The adjust properly aspect Is the bit that has been troubling me tonight
Take a look at the guide to adjusting them on the park tools website.
They are a pain in the Arse though
lifes just too short for cups, bearings and cones
I laugh every time I read about poor sods who cant carry out such a simple task as servicing and adjusting cup and cone bearings.
but the worst thing about Deore hubs are the terrible seals. Unless they have changed of late.
I laugh evert time I read about the poor sods who have to carry out a task like servicing and adjusting cup and cone bearings.....! 😉
Adjusting them is easy when all the bits are brand new. Once the cones or balls are even slightly worn its all over.
You may laugh ononeorange... but spin a well set up XT wheel with the same force as your Hope Pro II or whatever it is and watch as the XT wheel spins for 6 years longer
😉
The worst thing about Shimano hubs is keeping the cones from self adjusting. I now always take apart new hubs, thoroughly clean, then strong threadlock the drive side cones and locknut together at the correct place on the axle so they never ever come undone..then adjust other side as usual.
Tucker, It's not 'Self adjusting' really, its just that a lot of them seem to not have the locknuts properly tightened down from the factory. 🙂 But you're doing the right thing. Sling some decent grease in ANY C&C hub, and adjust them properly from new and they lasts forever!
And as for cartridges being easier maintainance? Nahh, not really I defy anybody to replace 5 Pro 2 bearings quicker than I can service a C&C hub. Granted, I seem to have the nack for it, but it's not hard as long as you have cone spanners: Adjust the cones until they're a bit tight, lock the lock nuts down, then use the cone spanners, one on each side of the hub to slowly and gently back the tightened cones off until they're smooth. Don't keep loostening off the locknuts and trying to retighten them down with the cones 'just right', that's like trying to bottle fog!
If I had a video camera, I'd stick it on You Tube to show how easy it is! 🙂
The worst thing about Deore hubs are the freehubs... I developed a knack for breaking them
XT all the way...
lifes too short for crap wobbly wheels. Deore especially, yes the hub only costs a tenner but then it ruins about 3 rides and needs replacing
..and of course on QR wheels the bearings should have some slight freeplay which is only removed by doing up the QR to the correct tension (i.e. start getting stiff 90 degrees out from fork leg/frame).
Shimano cup+cone hubs are fine.
You just need a proper pair of cone spanners and know how to use them.
If you don't have these then cartridge bearings are an easier but more expensive alternative.
yes the hub only costs a tenner but then it ruins about 3 rides and needs replacing
Absolute utter twaddle. If I'd not deleted them I'd post the pics of the 4 year old Deore hubs I serviced. Like NEW inside! 🙂
Adjust the cones until they're a bit tight, lock the lock nuts down, then use the cone spanners, one on each side of the hub to slowly and gently back the tightened cones off until they're smooth.
💡 💡 💡
I am trying doing it this way tonight. I've always tried to tighten the locknuts after getting the cones in the right position, and it never works.
Should you back them off until there's a tiny bit of play for the QR to take up, or just far enough so they rotate smoothly?
I've no idea why people say you should have play to be taken up by the QR. Utter twaddle. If the locknuts are properly tight, there is no way the QR can compress the cones onto the bearing. Thus it should be smooth with no play before going in the bike, and it will remain this way when put in the bike and the QR tightened. If it doesn't you've done it wrong.
Adjust the cones until they're a bit tight, lock the lock nuts down, then use the cone spanners, one on each side of the hub to slowly and gently back the tightened cones off until they're smooth.
Problems with that: you need two cone spanners of the same size; cone spanners are not meant to exert a great deal of force, coz there's not much to them and they bend.
I nip up the lock nuts fairly tight, leaving a little bit of play, then using two proper spanners - one on each lock nut - tighten gradually until all play is removed. Or you can use an axle vice as a third hand (Park do one).
The suggestion that there should be a little residual play when using QRs is laughable!
OK, so I'm a bit of a numpty with a spanner but the thing that really does my head in with shimano hubs is that the bearing surface is part of the hub. and if you are, like me, a bit rubbish or lazy the bearings get dirty, pit the surface of the hub, then it's new wheel time. cartridge bearings for me
nip up the lock nuts fairly tight, leaving a little bit of play, then using two proper spanners - one on each lock nut - tighten gradually until all play is removed. Or you can use an axle vice as a third hand (Park do one).
Yeah, that's the other way of doing it. 🙂 I just have some very old cheap cone spanners that do all 4 sizes on each spanner, so I do it both ways....Nothing in it really 🙂
is it only me that thinks axles stretch? the only axle i`ve ever snapped has been xt.
if they've come loose once then you are buggered trying to ever get em smooth again.
the problem isnt really the cup and cone system (although it is an unnecessary pain), the problem is the useless freehubs they put it them, you want proper self serviceable freehubs with big pawls and springs, not en-caged free hubs with tiny ball bearings ,small pawls and weak spring to keep them quiet
'The suggestion that there should be a little residual play when using QRs is laughable!'
How so? Its sound engineering physics. The way a QR works (on 9mm at least, no experience of larger axle types) adds preload to the bearings.
Anyone can test this to prove it. You tighten the cones to be perfect (i.e. play just removed), and tighten the QR properly, you will have over tight bearings. The trick is to have play just removed when QR is tightened correctly.
'I've no idea why people say you should have play to be taken up by the QR. Utter twaddle. If the locknuts are properly tight, there is no way the QR can compress the cones onto the bearing.'
If you tried it, you'd see that blatantly is untrue, the AXLE gets compressed forcing the cones closer together (a tiny amount, but with bearing adjustment we are working to tiny amounts).
If you guys live anywhere near King's Lynn I'd be happy to show you.
OK quick Google:
Park Tools probably need telling they are wrong: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/hub-overhaul-adjustable-type 😉
Ditto the late great Sheldon Brown: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html
im with tucker ....
PeterPoddy and mike_p, are you going to enlighten the forum as to why you both disagree?
i cant fathom for the life of me why people still insist on using them.
i mean, there is nothing WRONG with them, but carts are so much easier.
they may well take side loads better, but you don't get side loads on a bike, so its not an issue.
tucker is right
if done properly the hub has no play when the QR is done up, loosen the leaver a little and you've got play in the hub.
the park tools method for adjusting them is the best - as the tension is adjusted with the QR done up
This is why Tucker... I've got a brand new pair of Shimano hubs on the table, delivered by CRC this morning... no play whatsoever! So, I'll start rebuilding my hubs with play in the bearings when the manufacturer starts supplying them that way - I don't give a monkey's what Park, Sheldon or anyone else has to say about it.
After all, you wouldn't accept bearing play in a hub with cartridge bearings, and the principle is the same.
hahaahahha by that analogy id have sent customers out with wheels that dont really turn !
ive had hubs and wheels come from shimano and others with hubs damn near locked solid .....
a ploy to make em wear out faster and you buy more me thinks !
Of course, silly me... "they" are all out to get us.
You should have sent them back to the distributor in that case.
or just adjust them correctly ....
easiest way is loosly assemble the axle/cones, drill some bits of steel with a hole the same diameter as the qr shaft, stick one on the lever end and poke it through the hub, stick the washer on the other end and screw the qr nut on. Clamp the QR the same as you would when on the bike-this compresses the axle. Adjust cones so hub has no free play, lock everything up, release QR, notice the axle now has some play in it, sling it in the bike-go ride.
Also if you do my mod;
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/grease-nipple-xt-hubs
you'll never need strip a Shimano hub ever again.
Recent shimano hubs...xt..deore etc... do seem to have a habit of undoing themselves. Never used to. Must be progress!
mike_p, the hubs as sent have been assembled by some unskilled worker on minimum pay, they couldn't care less about correct freeplay. They aren't 'out to get anyone', they just couldn't care less. Shimano couldn't care less either, because so few get returned under warranty.
When you get a new mechanical item, unless you know its been assembled by a skilled individual to your specifications it is best to disassemble, lube correctly, and then assemble to correct specs.
Still laughable?
PeterPoddy, 'best mechanic in the world' (according to your profile), still waiting your justification?
And as for cartridges being easier maintainance? Nahh, not really I defy anybody to replace 5 Pro 2 bearings quicker than I can service a C&C hub
???
Do you realise that only two of the bearings in a Pro 2 rear hub are actually in the hub? FYI the other three are in the freehub body which are replaceable, unlike Shimano...
