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Mine too Adam, having said that I was told they had only heard of the issue once or twice before. They've now had the frame more than half of the time I've owned it
I have been offered a 14x as a warranty replacement for a snapped then bent Grapil. Reading the above, I'm a bit nervous.
I had the 14X, it was fine. I thought the flexy rear ends were on the carbon models and I didn't think the 140mm version came in carbon, mine was full aluminium.
I contacted Madison about the play developing in my 2014 15x frame, I was told there is a tolerance issue with the tan coloured norglide bushings that were fitted in those frames. They said they will be sending the new bushings to my local bike shop but due to warranty issues they can only be fitted by a mechanic at a Madison dealership. Madison do not cover the cost of fitting the bushings - I am not pleased with this as under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose and Madison have stated that the original bushings are not fit for purpose and in my opinion they should cover the post of fitting the correct bushings.
Ariel 14x back from madison with new black bushings, play again after 10km, there now replacing frame but i can only imagine the replacment is going to need the original tan bushings changed imediatly
How do you get hold of them, do you go via your LBS? I'm trying to get some advice on which parts I need to replace but they don't respond to the "contact us" page. I've just replaced the torx bolts and bushings at the top of the linkage (£35). That's stopped those bits coming undone all the time. However there's still loads of play, it looks like it's at the middle axle. I'm wondering if I just need a linkage axle and washer or yet more bushings or even a new main axle. I don't really want to be forking out yet more cash for stuff I don't need.
I've been going through joe at freeborn was i bought it from them, he has been incredible, massive thumbs up to him, but the paper work shows hes sending it to sportline which is a seprate side of madison.
http://www.sportline.co.uk/
Intrigued by these black bushes. Would like to here more experiences with a 15x...
On mine both the axles on the linkage seem the same diameter. I'm wondering if because they are split bushes it's actually the linkage bore itself is not compressing them to the right diameter? Currently mine seems ok but next time I have it apart (probably after the next ride!) I'll get the vernier out.
To the person above considering one, maybe this year's are better, but sadly I can't recommend it based on my experiences.
I've been going through joe at freeborn was i bought it from them, he has been incredible, massive thumbs up to him
+1 on this. Freeborn has become my go to shop when ordering online now.
good to hear Freeborn are sorting problems out for customer. Joe is a good guy with a lot of experience with full suspension frames
Interesting, I've replaced the bushings on my 15X once since I've had it - will see how long they last (was a 2nd hand frame). Dealt direct with Saracen - really good service, very impressed.
Muppet question time - The bushes on the tapered bolt with conical end were fine to swap out, but how do you take apart the single pivot that is on the machined allow linkage hidden behind the front of the rear triangle?
Cheers,
16x frame being returned for refund. Play in linkage again after a few rides. Joe at Freeborn excellent again, no hesitation and offered refund straight away without me even asking.
2015 15x frame ok after a couple of rides since coming back from Madison, but will be keeping a close eye on it.
14x been back several times even had frame replaced and new bushings in it.The amount of time i have now spent trying to resolve this and without a bike i will never be buying a Saracen again and will activly avoid buying from freeborn. the customer service was excelent to start but they soon got bored and fed up which made me get arsey plus long time to respond to emails/phone calls and turn around times were never the 2 weeks max i was told.
Just to bump this.
What's the consensus on buying one of these frames.Has anyone got a good one or are all the linkages floored.
Thinking about buying a 2014 16x frame.
Loco your personal opinion please. 😉
Had my 2014 16x getting on for 3 months now. Bought it new. All seems ok so far. Only clunk I'm getting is topout from my Lyriks. Must strip them down......
Took my 16x out of the shed today and felt the dreaded clunk from the rear. I just checked and I placed the order on 5th May so the bushings have lasted squarely 2 months.
Sad times.
Just had a bit of an investigation and it seems the play is around the bolt in the middle of the large cast linkage part.
I knew some 15x's had issues with the bushings before I bought it so can't complain really. I will, however, keep this updated with my experiences with Saracen/Rush Cycles warranty and customer service.
robhughes
Just to bump this.
What's the consensus on buying one of these frames.Has anyone got a good one or are all the linkages floored.
I wouldn't bother buying one, not after building and stripping down 3 frames to return them under warranty within 4 weeks. First 2014 16x was knocking out of the box, replacement frame lasted 2 rides. My 2015 15x has been good so far after having the replacement bushes fitted but I've only managed to ride about 50 miles since, so still early days.
It sounds like it's the same point on the linkage on all of them psycorp, that's where ours went too.
Shame they have this problem as they ride brilliantly, I really enjoy the 15x and just hope it holds out on the new bushes. Bro spent his 16x refund on a 2nd hand Orange Alpine frame.
I wouldn't bother buying one, not after building and stripping down 3 frames to return them under warranty within 4 weeks. First 2014 16x was knocking out of the box, replacement frame lasted 2 rides. My 2015 15x has been good so far after having the replacement bushes fitted but I've only managed to ride about 50 miles since, so still early days.It sounds like it's the same point on the linkage on all of them psycorp, that's where ours went too.
Shame they have this problem as they ride brilliantly, I really enjoy the 15x and just hope it holds out on the new bushes. Bro spent his 16x refund on a 2nd hand Orange Alpine frame.
Agreed, I really like the way mine rides too. Hopefully they have had the time to find out what the problem is and sort it, so it'll only have to go back once. Having to send it back three times is above and beyond.
the problem has been that nor glide changed the spec of the bush and didn't bother to tell saracen that they'd done it. I'm told that the new bushes are in final testing and will shipping shortly.
the problem has been that nor glide changed the spec of the bush and didn't bother to tell saracen that they'd done it. I'm told that the new bushes are in final testing and will shipping shortly.
Well that's good news for me at least. Do you know if they insist that frames have to be shipped back or are they willing to ship out the bushes for customers to fit themselves?
My 14X is just back from having a fourth set of bushes in less than a year. Saracen have refused to replace the frame. Saracen have told LBS that a long term solution is close which I have heard before so won't get excited by that. Saracen also won't pay for LBS to fit new bushes, so you are reliant on goodwill.
I mailed Saracen last Monday asking for an explanation and pointed them at this discussion. I have not had a reply.
Anybody know what the specs for the bushes should be???
Might be easier and quicker just to replace them myself by the sounds of it.
I wouldn't rely on anything saracen or mansion said and I'd avoid the frame after severalnsets of bushings and a frame replacment in the space of 2 months I managed to get a refund from freeborn. I asked them to forward my complaint to saracen/mansion before this, it took quite some time for madison to reply making me certain promises to which I'm still waiting 3 weeks on for them to fulfill. Terrible service terrible design and appoling turn around time. Avoid if you value your time.
Well Rush Cycles were straight back to me today. They admitted there was an issue with the bushings and that long term replacements were currently in testing and would be available in 8-10 weeks. In the meantime they'll send out a set of the current bushes to tide me over.
Happy with that, good service so far.
Pity Saracen can't be bothered to send me an email saying they are testing a fix. Their silence is damaging.
Iv'e just bought a 16 x frame.joe at freeborn has clarified that there checking the frames before they go out.If the old bushings are present then there will be a short delay while madison send out the newer ones and they'll fit them before shipping.
I'm taking a chance i know.... 8)
I got a refund - euans2 mentioned me in the first page. I've asked about this on Singletrack before but I don't think many people had picked up on it yet...
The tan bushes on my 2014 bike were replaced a few times, I was getting three weeks or so per set. Then, a bit out of the blue, new black bushes were available that would cure the problem - they didn't last any longer.
Then I got a new 2015 frame - the thinking was that maybe the worn tan bushes had worn the frame. The new frame was built up on December 6th, it had play within the first week of January. Madison were no bother and the shop I bought it from gave me a full refund.
Mates have 26ers running these bushes and they're ok. The Madison/Sportline's warranty guy is a top bloke and I would happily buy another Saracen bike based on how well he dealt with my problems. The freehub failed too - knackered a weekend away - but I had a new one on my desk at work the day after I rang him. I had already bought Hope/Stans wheels, but I was impressed with that.
I bought a Process 153DL instead, very similar geo. Fitted the Hope/Stans wheels and swapped the SRAM parts for mud-friendly Shimano 1x10. Should have bought that in the first place...
That's my 4th set now gone. Another 100 - 130 miles before it went. Spoke with LBS and he's going to call me back tomorrow, once he's spoke with sportsline/Madison. He's been told the new bushings are a month away from being available. After the last fit I thought it was all sorted. I'm thinking of pushing for a replacement frame.
Quick question for those who have replaced the bushings on their frames. The large bolt in the middle of the large CNC machined linkage part, is it a standard thread or an opposite thread like the small Torx bolts at the top of the linkage????????
I'm asking as the bolt on mine seems to be VERY tight and before I give it some real welly I want to be sure which thread direction it is.
Cheers.
Oh I should say thanks to Colin at Rush Cycles for getting the replacement bushes out quickly to me too.
It seems that the suppliers are doing there up most to keep customers happy (to an extent) But the issue lies at saracen and madison who refuse/dont/lie when they do or don't reply. I'm still waiting for a reply email that i was prommised now 4 weeks ago.i was promised this on the phone direct from the person who was dealing with my issue.
It seems madison/saracen just don't care and will say anything to get people off there back.
Psycorp: The only tricky one is the one where you need to pop out the taper shim and then wind it out from the other side. The rest just unscrew as you would expect. Likely to be threadlocked though, and the original instructions suggest loosening all the other bolts first.
Edit: Mine is a 2015 151, and has no Torx bolts so this may be useless advice.
Ahh ok. Thanks anyway Tom.
For clarity mine is a 2014 16x so if anyone can confirm the thread direction of the bolt in the pic below that would be great.
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Be careful with that bolt, the head seems soft and easily rouned. LBS have trashed two during my multiple replacements.
Saracen called me today to apologise for being slow to respond and to explain the situation with respect to a fix. Summary is they are in final testing of the fix, testing on real bikes using uplift in the Alps apparently. Should have bits ready to send out in a few weeks. In the meantime they are happy to keep sending out replacement bushes.
I did suggest an official public statement/explanation might be a good idea given the damage this has caused to the brand. I won't hold my breathe for that one.
Hi bullroar
Do you know if it's a standard "lefty loosy, righty tighty" thread on the bolt?
Given what you've said I don't want to put any real torque into it without knowing.
Mine is mormal (14x), 6mm hex on non-drive side of bike. Make sure the tool is well seated which is not that easy given the access to the hole.
Hmm, sounds like they are all slightly different then. Mine is a T27 (or T30 I can't remember now) Torx fitting on the drive side.
I'm just going to have to give it some muscle and hope it's ok.
Rscott, of course they care. And as a Saracen dealer I think is is a real shame that you've had a bad experience. There is no excuse for it really but they have been rather busy of late and sometimes things do slip through the cracks. They are in the process of sorting a permanent replacement at the moment which should sort the issue once and for all. As I have previously stated the problem comes from the bushing supplier changing the spec without telling Saracen. This has led to tolerance issues which causes the play.
If you let me have your contact details I'm happy to speak with them and make sure you receive some replacement parts as soon as they are available. Or speak to your dealer and ask them to get it sorted for you.
For what it's worth, in my experience, Madison/sportline are one of the better and more accommodating companies to deal with for warranty issues.
psycorp.How did you get on.Gathering all info for when mine go and have to fit the problem solving solution set. 😉
we were given some of the latest bushes to fit in a customers bike and so far no problems, about three weeks old
Rob
Not got around to it yet. Will give it a bash this morning probably.
No issue here yet. In Heathrow on Way to chamonix. Will batter the bike a nd see.
Right, I've now disassembled the linkage on my 16x and replaced all the bushings. I'm a bit concerned though. In the pic below you can see that one of the bushings has far more wear than all the rest. This bushing came out of the top part of the linkage which is secured with the reverse threaded bolts.
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Worn bushing in place:
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I've mostly reassembled the bike now, I've got the lower shock eyelet to bolt in and one of the reverse thread linkage bolts to fit. Problem is the last linkage bolt is out of alingment by a mm, possibly 2, photos below:
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Whole linkage view:
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Is the whole rear end assembly wonky on this frame????? That would explain the uneven wear on the bushing.
O deary deary.This does explain a lot with this bushing issue psycorp.
Have you tried slackening everything off then aligning the whole lot together.
I'd be firing those pics off to the shop bud.First time iv'e actually seen the bushing out and they seem to be made out of brie.
RobHughes
Already fired off the same pics to Rush Cycles where I bought the frame. I haven't torqued all the bolts up properly yet, was waiting until it was all back together to nip it all up.
I've put a bit of pressure through the linkage and it's not moving anywhere near enough to line up. I certainly aren't going to force the bolt in as the thread for them is in the rear triangle itself.
It's not looking good and I think the frame will have to go back.
Same frame is sitting in the stand awaiting build.Fingers double crossed but at least the new proper bushing will be available very soon that is if my frame isn't twisted. 😕
Have you tried undoing completely the bottom bolt,do the tops first as you'll get a bit of leverage on the bottom one.Just to get you going until the frame goes back.. 😥