[Closed] 'RIDING' no place in cross?

pjt201 - Member
molgrips - Member
Yeah I'd have grumbled. When there's a traffic jam it
really isn't fair to queue jump like that.

so, overtaking someone who's stupid enough to stay on the main line when there's more of the course inside of the tape which isn't blocked is not fair? do you not understand the point of a race?

oldgit - Member
So tell me, if you're in front why should you move off that line to let someone behind you past. They had the opportunity to get there first and didn't/couldn't take it. Long and short you're winning the race

(mind you, I was never quite good enough as a footballer, at least partly 'cos I didn't do all the holding and pushing that was "required")

wouldn't move off my line but I wouldn't deliberately use more of the track than I would use if somebody wasn't trying to overtake. That's dirty

TBH I'd be more concerned with my forward momentum to even think about blocking on purpose. Come to think of it, I've let riders past if I've thought they've come down on me quickly. Then I sit on their wheel and let them drag me along, until I'm ready to pop out again.
I also find that riders that have struggled to get past often flap and crash once they have overtaken!

I get my crosses mixed up so remind me is this the one where people not quite good enough for downhill all crash into each other or the one where confused roadies run around carrying their bikes across a muddy field 😉

second one. i think this is a good place for this video

^^^^
Brilliant, well he was definitely a confused roadie!

So is this the sort of incident that features as a major incident in a cross race? Someone shouting 'Riding'? I don't really know much about cross, but it seems like a relatively innocuous sort of occurrence. Just imagine if he'd shouted something really mean. 🙂

Chap in that vid would have been fine if he'd realised he wasn't skilled enough to ride & just carried the bike like oldgit does

a genuinely fast rider would be able to pass without you really knowing.

how ever if you intentionally blocked me more than twice(and i mean i call on your left and you move left) id just ride into you.

His biggest mistake was calling out, only needed if you're lapping people, in which case they should move out the way to let the leaders through. If you're just racing for position, you want the good line, get there first. Simple.

I've done lots of international cross races and there's no politeness at all, you leave the door even slightly ajar, never mind open, you'll have half a dozen foreigners blasting through it. an inch wide hole between your bars and the tape is considered a gap when racing in Belgium!

There's no harm in communicating, but if he thought he was coming through then, well, enough people have said it.

More importantly that gif of the bloke bunny hopping the steps took on a whole new dimension when I spotted that his entire audience consists of a border collie.

If this bloke shouted 'Riding' I'd get out of the way. Just so I could watch him.

[img] [/img]

Looks like a spaniel to me.

I've done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don't think I've ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that
I know its a race but , if you can't ride get out the way.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

If this bloke shouted 'Riding' I'd get out of the way. Just so I could watch him.

Watch him losing 3-4 bike lengths because he has to scrub off speed to bunnyhop?

It looks impressive, but it's not the fastest way up.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

As people keep saying, it's a race. No one gives away an advantage especially not in a short race, and there is no right of way just because you choose to ride. If you think you should be in front, get in front and don't ask to be let through.

Cross comes from road racing and the tactics still apply.

[i]It looks impressive, but it's not the fastest way up.[/i]

this is why I'd never make a decent racer, I'd rather be the bunny hopper than the runners 🙂

I've done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don't think I've ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that

12/24 hour races are very different as you're probably not actually racing the person your passing or who's passing you, so very bad form to hold people up and calling is accepted practice.

Really for shorter xc races? Often had riders in front slow up the race through bits where it's not really possible to pass, that's just racing.

It looks impressive, but it's not the fastest way up.

I read the title as 'riding has no place in cross' - which actually seems to have been quite appropriate. 🙂

Another view, just as impressive

View this post on Instagram

The runners are dropped completely even before they remount

He may lose some "distance" in that clip, but not "time". The gap is just physically smaller as they have slowed, just like corner bunching in motorsport.

orangeboy - Member

I've done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don't think I've ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that
I know its a race but , if you can't ride get out the way.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

Short races are different from long races.

In an endurance event the gap between places could be minutes. Not blocking makes sense as they will eventually pass on a long wide climb. In CX it is often wheel or bike lengths, the front of the field isn't spread out as much so if you let someone past you then they will probably beat you. You don't let gaps open on the basis you'll close it over the next hour because by then they'll be taking the course down and it will be over. You follow wheels, use tactics fight up until the finish line.

Shouldering is a tactical decision. If you want to ride it then fine but if you want to win then you do what is fastest over the race. There are times when challenging your riding ability is fun but why pay to enter a race to do that, you might as well just go riding.

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win. I'm also looking for a podium not 37th which I think makes it a bit more cut throat.

I think he wanted us to move over as if someone riding has right of way over someone running.

Using all the space inside the tape seems neither exploit nor cheating so that was a weird one theotherjonv

Were are on a small rock spinning in the vast emptiness of space. This is all fairly irrelevant TBH... 😉

Don't see a problem - not suggesting you jump off the course for him but if there's room let him passed. Racing tactics are bollocks, the top of climb "stalls" and blocking people. It's a human powered race the fastest & fittest person should be the winner not the **** who uses all the gamesmanship exploits.

Are you a tester? Maybe mass start racing isn't for you.

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win.

Spot on. It's a race. You have respect for each other but you aren't afraid to pull a hard move or two in order to finish in front of the other guy.
Bar one very recent experience this has always the way I've found racing has panned out.

Are you a tester? Maybe mass start racing isn't for you.

Falling for that trick once is acceptable, from the second time onwards he should be expecting it and leave more of a gap so all it does is slow matey-boy down. For every tactic there is a counter-tactic.

no, I've only done low grade racing before (stuff proper racers probably wouldn't consider racing)

like a sportive?

like a sportive?

Have to say that as the girls get to race in with the vets whilst Fred and Joe Bloggs are busy living out their ancient rivalry I have to get past both of them to be able to chase down the woman in front which can be a bit frustrating.

Although I am also trying to put Fred and Joe's shenanigans between me and the girl behind so I guess it can cut both ways.

CX is very often races within a race. The top 10 guys almost always put a lap on me, but I will still be fighting for position against other guys.
At a recent cx race, I was on the last half lap, battling to catch up and had finally overtaken somebody I had been chasing last lap or so. So when a rider behind called to come through, I stayed on my same line. No way was I pulling over to let him pass and risk the rider I had just overtaken to jump I front too.
He bawled a bit, but I was racing too.
If a faster racer wants to pass me, even if he has lapped me, it's up to him to provide a way through and not expect me give up my race.

Not quite -

11.8 When being lapped, it is the responsibility of the lapped
rider to surrender the racing line.

If you're being lapped you should make every effort to let the faster riders through, even if it disrupts your race (yes, I have done this myself).

It's racing. Using 'tactics' is part and parcel, but if you're excessively negative, you're just masking your own lack of ability. If you're in a race, you can pick lines around corners which might not be the fastest, but you'll make it impossible for others to pass. Similarly, if someone picks a 'racing line' round a corner, you might squeeze through on the inside and get in front cleanly, even though you hold them up because their line choice was faster overall. You might also end up cornering side-by-side, leaning on each other. That's fun 😀
What's not done is to swerve across the track on straight bits to block someone who's trying to overtake by simply riding faster that you. Speed up, yes, but switch people? Not nice. Likewise, repeatedly 'stalling' at the top of a bank? You might get a reputation. Or a smashed rear mech.

LS - Member

Not quite -

11.8 When being lapped, it is the responsibility of the lapped
rider to surrender the racing line.

If you're being lapped you should make every effort to let the faster riders through, even if it disrupts your race (yes, I have done this myself).

Maybe I will just adopt tactics next time them if thats a more acceptable practice .. 😉

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win.

same here.

I'm not an overall contender, but I am racing for an overall podium in my age group, currently I'm 3rd so the racing is cut throat. When a new guy comes along and mixes it, it can get very very close with the lead changing constantly. It's a proper battle, but when it's over you can guarantee those blokes will seek each other out to shake hands. And not once ever have I seen an improper move.

[img] [/img]

The exact spot. Here the Elites and race winner adopt the 'pick it up and run' tactic.

Or a smashed rear mech.

I've only raced one cross race and to be honest it summed up all the stuff I find fun in MTB racing. I really should pul my finger out and race some more. The whole race-within-a-race, and the actual racing bits are what I enjoy. This is probably because I'm never near the front! Enjoy the moment 😉

I've done quite a bit of singlespeed racing and they are the definition of chilled out, but I've also had some of my most fun racing in them. Mid-pack duelling, see-saw battles to be the first into that section of singletrack, carving a creative line (on or off the bike) to jump a place. All smiles during and after because that's what racing is about.

As an aside, one of the most beautiful bits of racing I've seen was Jose Hermida's dismout-run-remount of the tricky climb out of Worry Gill at the Dalby World Cup in 2010. So smooth and fast it was hard to see the joins... and so much faster than those riding it 😉

interesting one this.
That pic oldgit shows up there makes it look like there would be loads of room for either a faster riding or running competitor to get past, without expecting a slower runner to move.

I thought people were suggesting that even if you're somewhere where there physically no room (eg wooded singletrack with high bushes either side), a runner, walker, or stationary racer having a rest, could effectively block the whole track for a bit.
is that really allowed?

I agree that shouting 'rider' is not helpful. However, if someone's basically standing across the track sorting their dropped chain out when you're trying to ride (or indeed carry) past I'd say thats simply not on, what?

nteresting one this.
That pic oldgit shows up there makes it look like there would be loads of room for either a faster riding or running competitor to get past, without expecting a slower runner to move.

Yep plenty of room. However if you choose to ride a steep slow section your lines as we all know can be limited. If you run (as in the cross in cyclo cross) you can duck and dive past people.

I thought people were suggesting that even if you're somewhere where there physically no room (eg wooded singletrack with high bushes either side), a runner, walker, or stationary racer having a rest, could effectively block the whole track for a bit.
is that really allowed?

No.In reality a struggling rider will always move, especially if they know they're a hinderence. The bigger problem is when you encounter someone who doesn't reailise how slow they are going. Coming across a slow rider in a tight section is basically bad luck.

Oldgit, did the guy run up the first (steep) bank, remount at the top and then try to ride up the second one, in the middle of the first lap melee? I don't remember seeing anyone riding up the steepest one on the first lap of the vets, so I'm assuming that's what he did...
If so, he's a bigger fool than we thought, and made completely the wrong decision in the heat of the moment.

I've got a video on my phone of the Juniors on that section which will eventually upload to Youtube.

It's 'cross - if you want to have a clean line at riding something, train harder and get off the start line quicker - else the person in front has right of way, whether they're riding, running or salsa dancing around the course.
Choosing to ride a line when people in front of you are running and will obviously block your progress, is just stupid.
Race-craft, innit?

Oldgit, did the guy run up the first (steep) bank, remount at the top and then try to ride up the second one, in the middle of the first lap melee? I don't remember seeing anyone riding up the steepest one on the first lap of the vets, so I'm assuming that's what he did...
If so, he's a bigger fool than we thought, and made completely the wrong decision in the heat of the moment.

Yep, you've got it.

Some more crowd pleasing CX riding skills for you..
[img] [/img] 😀

Wot, did he not use his bell?