elsewhere that the wind load from a safety net would mean needing a far bigger structure than they have there
BK was veryclose to the left side of the landing, Matt was way off to the other side
I did think before they even went down it that the chances of a full run will be limited as the wind will effect that jump massively and in these vids it was flat calm. There is no plan B wind effected possibility with that track… unless they are now going to dismount and run along those planks
BK only just landed , another foot to the left would have been a big accident.
I imagine wasn’t ready for the compression or the kick?
I did find myself wondering what the compression forces were just prior to the ramp and then thinking about Bernard Kerr's last frame failure...
Wee bit more focus on H&S needed, I reckon.
I'm honestly not sure how helpful a net would be?
Also looking at it, someone lands in the net in a bad way, how the hell are they going to get to them and stabilise and evacuate them?
KramerFree Member
I’m honestly not sure how helpful a net would be?Also looking at it, someone lands in the net in a bad way, how the hell are they going to get to them and stabilise and evacuate them?
Very, if someone loses it in the compression and plops onto the net it's saving them a xxft fall to the ground.
An awkward landing on a springy net with tricky recovery is still far better than scooping remains from the floor
Whoever their liability insurer is, they must be looking at this with their head in their hands
An awkward landing on a springy net with tricky recovery is still far better than scooping remains from the floor
Are the nets springy?
They needn't bother with a net. Just stick a shark tank in the gap. #facetiousbuttruenonetheless
Looking back to when they had a surplus of jobless carpenters in Utah, I thought that things had changed for the better since they stopped adding the structures at Rampage. The Athertons obviously beg to differ.
It's getting a bit daft imo.
Lulz at this 😀
https://www.change.org/p/a-petition-for-gee-atherton-to-chill-out-already?utm_medium=custom_url&utm_source=share_petition&recruited_by_id=407796c0-e214-11e4-99c1-e9d83942eca5
I can’t watch that. Fine saying they are grown adults making a choice, but these top level Red Bull events make & sustain careers so there's a pressure on riders to participate that is close to exploitation.
If there was some obvious sense that Red Bull had put in a structure that looked after rider & course safety and post crash care I'd be able to watch it. Maybe Redbull do behind the scenes, but it feels like they don't want to talk about it, so it ends up appealing mostly to teenage boys and men hoping to see some gore.
There's a way of constantly increasing progression that doesn't involve scaring the living daylights out of skilled pros. F1, for all of it's faults, demonstrates how a sport can use danger as part of the appeal while still constantly talking about and improving safety.
If it emerges that it was a safely run event and there's some cool footage, I'll watch the highlights, but this years one has no appeal to me as a live sporting event.
There is no plan B wind effected possibility with that track… unless they are now going to dismount and run along those planks
Where they turn left and head to the first stream jump is just above the old (pre cliff drop) course so it'd be possible to re-join that. It'd not really matter though as there's still the 90 footers and the road gap.
Just seen those videos. It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”, and decline to compete. The risks there just seem stupid. If you come up slightly short you are straight into a timber knife edge.
I do wonder if they have already had some riders voting with their feet, just not entertaining it. Surely that feature is going to be heavily adapted for the actual event.
Turns out it may not actually give you wings shocker.
Hmm getting less and less natural each year.
Im actually disappointed
Agreed. The same can be said for a lot of the WC DH too. Motocross tracks without the loop and some gradient. It gets more a test of bottle than all round bike riding skill.
Cuz da Internet wants da big jumps and da big roosts in da cornaz innit.
It actually makes me not wildly bothered that the UCI has sold its soul to Discovery-ESO-WB with Messrs Ball and Cunningham.
If the Athertons get away with another event this year with no life-limiting injuries or fatalities, the ante will just get raised each year until there is one.
Ed Masters has it right "the Internet wants death".
Just seen those videos. It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”, and decline to compete.
It's no different to previous years in that respect then. The cliff drop was a big deal the first year along with the 90 footers 2 years ago. Multiple world cup riders have turned up for practice and declined to ride the full course or actually race it.
isn’t the reason BK and Co are there early is so that they can give feedback and change the features accordingly?
Yes, Matt Jones actually explains it in his latest video and says that BK’s ‘job this week’ is to test and check to see what is rideable and what needs to be changed. They didn’t go near the 90° hip over the stream higher up but said what would need to change.
I got the impression that BK, and maybe Jim Monro, are there to work and be paid. Jones just seemed to go along for a laugh - but he’ll also be getting massive hits on SM and YT so probably will be able to afford to eat this week 😉
I’d guess they’ll be back tomorrow and Wednesday to fettle some more.
It does make you wonder if someone at the more sane end of the self-preservation scale will just say, “nah, ‘ollocks to that”,
im sure plenty already so given the lack of top wish riders on the list. Bruni for example as clearly declined his sponsor invitation. I’m sure many others do too
$15k for the winner apparently according to pinkbike.. if that's accurate I don't think it's just reward for that risk
The line into the hip wasn't built on the last video that why it wasn't ridden.
I love the track, really making people sit up and notice.
Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.
Looks bloody amazing. WIll most definitely be watching!
The more I see of the track the more I'm looking forwards to being there on Sunday.
I really want as many riders as possible to have clean runs and hit all the big features. I do hope the canyon gets work to make sure the entry list can all clear it - currently looks like it sends them too high!
Racing should be about who in the field can do it the fastest, not who can survive the course.
Same reason the grand tour stages aren’t 400km & 10000m of climbing.
Building that with no regard to safety is asking for trouble, consenting pros or not.
Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.
Im all for people being able to do what they want and try and kill themselves how they want. I used to jump off cliffs skiing , jump over crevasses etc.
But all that wasn’t in the name of making other people rich, or trying to get mass social media and mainstream media coverage.
The danger with the way Redbull appears to be going with Ramoage and Hardline is that someone will die or have life changing injuries which gets this level of organised sport banned .
Idf you are going to do it ‘professionally’ like this is being done you have to take safety seriously
Anyhow didn’t headline start with the ethos getting a bike down the most challenging natural mountain, to now get your bike down the most challenging heap of scaffolding 😂
Some right fannies on here worried about the danger element of an extreme sport.
We want to see cool riding, we dont want to see those who have more ambition than ability, or are just plain unlucky, paralysed or killed.
The danger with the way Redbull appears to be going with Ramoage and Hardline is that someone will die or have life changing injuries which gets this level of organised sport banned .
The Isle of Man TT has fatal injuries pretty much every year as far as i know and I've never heard anyone say that should be banned
The Isle of Man TT has fatal injuries pretty much every year as far as i know and I’ve never heard anyone say that should be banned
loads of people have called for the TT to be banned. However they have done all they can realistically do with safety
Marshals have site of every section of the track, areas are heavily padded. There are qualified trauma doctors on site in various positions along with lots of paramedics. There is also dedicated helicopter support. So I would say they take safety a lot more seriously
I’m very much in the they are free thinking adults who can make their own decisions on what they want to do camp, no one is forcing them to do it. And equally no interest in the inevitable go fund me page if it does go wrong.
I don’t think red bull really care how many mountain bikers watch it live, it’s more of social media content gathering exercise
That (TT) course hasn’t changed in a century and is very much a known quantity, what’s made it dangerous is the speed the riders do it at as time has gone on
This is the course being changed to make it deliberately more dangerous.
Matt Jones is an absolulute gift to mountain biking- good enough to ride this mad stuff, but normal enough to be shit scared, I love seeing them arguing about who'll go first, walking round stuff etc, just like my lot on a normal ride except multiplied by a million. His Rampage video added a ton of value in the same way. I'd rather watch him working his way down than the winning run I reckon.
FunkyDunc
Free MemberI didn’t like the comment at the end of the vid where they said they are now going to put safety nets up. Maybe put the safety nets up first , and then remove them once all riders have cleared ? Rather than risk life changing injuries or death first .
I guess the important thing is that this is the test runs, the course isn't finished and there's literally no pressure, even Bernard Kerr who's job ultimately is to approve it and ride it, can say "no". Matt says partway through "I didn't know this was happening today" which fits too.
I guess the nets are going to be catch near the top, rather than big trapeze style full nets? Stop the fall early rather than try and save it at the bottom. If anything it's the awfulness of the landing that hit me- you can't come up short of course but you also can't go long, you go straight into unprepared hill, you've got to land and turn. And if you land to the left it's just a less awful cliff, to the right it's more unprepared hill. You obviously would choose to go long or right if it goes wrong but that's not how it works, you've got to get it <right> and getting it right means you've no choice but to be close to the big hazard.
The whole thing would feel a lot less iffy to me with a better landing, without really losing anything of the obvious peril. In that way it's comparable to the trailbuilding we do, a little double or rock feature can be an unacceptable risk but we often can fix that by taking out the fall hazards, brashing the trees and shifting rocks, improving sightlines etc, so that the failures are less bad.
thebunk
Full MemberI can’t watch that. Fine saying they are grown adults making a choice, but these top level Red Bull events make & sustain careers so there’s a pressure on riders to participate that is close to exploitation.
I'm always really relieved when someone just walks away. It's a sort of proof of concept, if everyone who was signed up rides it that leaves me a wee bit twitchy at this level.
But as long as it's standalone events I don't really see the pressure in that way, like rampage there's so few riders that actually <do> it that you can't really say anyone can feel they have to. There's a lot of riders these days that could do it and don't, it's just not that obvious because they're just not doing it. Yoann Barelli's inputs always welcome 😉
loads of people have called for the TT to be banned. However they have done all they can realistically do with safety
Marshals have site of every section of the track, areas are heavily padded. There are qualified trauma doctors on site in various positions along with lots of paramedics. There is also dedicated helicopter support. So I would say they take safety a lot more seriously
All of this may be true but people still die every year, everyone taking part knows the risks involved and are prepared to take those risks, the same applies here in my eyes. Plenty of the the top racers don't think it's worth the risk and don't turn up despite being sponsored by Redbull
Hard-line had always been a man made track with huge features dug, never just a natural ride down a mountain that's the whole punta
Same for rampage, man made lines where athletes go to have free choice not bound by overbearing international federations etc.
If anything it’s the awfulness of the landing that hit me- you can’t come up short of course but you also can’t go long, you go straight into unprepared hill, you’ve got to land and turn. And if you land to the left it’s just a less awful cliff, to the right it’s more unprepared hill.
Could all be a moot point as the wind will whistle up that valley and hit that waterfall jump so if there’s the slightest breeze on the day I doubt many will wish to jump 80ft over such a sketchy gap onto a small landing, I hope they have an alternative route planned.
Does appear that he let go of the bike as soon as he left the ramp, I imagine wasn’t ready for the compression or the kick?
That's what I thought - like the suspension was totally wrong. On BK's video Matt talks about how intense the kicker was - he didn't see the takeoff until he was on it because of the steepness. Matt also said he'd had his suspension 'softened' since Maydena, perhaps that helped him? He certainly looked the least out of control of the lot. BK looked like he was spat out off line.
When they first looked at it the landing was straight on to the scaffold, then when they jump it the landing has been extended by a good metre or more
Pretty sure in Matt's vid that was already there when they were looking at it and they said it was temporary and going to be removed.
Same for rampage, man made lines where athletes go to have free choice not bound by overbearing international federations etc.
Rampage lines are designed/built but the people that ride them. Here it’s the organisers that have built a massive, risky jump, ‘You want to do well? Clear it, try not to die.’
Riders may well be prepared to take the risks, it’s whether or not they have the ability to back it up (sending 100ft canyon gaps, it’s not guaranteed), and to not kill them if they get it wrong. I had the bottle to send a double in a (last of the day) race run that would put me several places higher in the rankings, what I lacked was the ability and despite it being a grassroots beginner event, my screwing it up (coming up short) broke 6 ribs and a collar bone. Turning that up to 11 with no extra precautions? Wreckless.
What came to mind for me, in Matt's video, was the same debate/discussion before the 1st real run, that I recall a few friends and I would have before we would kayak something new and hard and difficult and scary (and in White water kayaking, what makes it hard is usually what makes it risky too). Whether the middle section of the Oetz (to swim is to die in that... I chose not to paddle it, 2 mates ran it a couple of times), or bolder-fests with sumps and syphons, or running big waterfalls. And when I was paddling, nobody was sponsored or professional (but a couple of my much-more-talented-than-I mates were up there with the best in that era, as we all chose to have real jobs that funded the boating trips to far away places). So I'm not sure it is all because of the sponsorship.
I do have real concerns about the long term health of those getting repeat concussions though.
The one person that I thought would have a go (Gee) didn’t jump it, I wonder why?.
I hope it’s self preservation for his sake, credit to Gee’s ability to bounce back from life ending injuries, also credit to his very extensive medical treatment and physios, I wish I had access to such as I’m sure I’d be in a better place, as would many others.
If a rider is injured whilst competing in this event do Redbull cover their treatment costs and aftercare or do the riders have to rely on the nhs/personal medical insurance and their own pocket? Genuinely interested?
If a rider is injured whilst competing in this event do Redbull cover their treatment costs and aftercare or do the riders have to rely on the nhs/personal medical insurance and their own pocket? Genuinely interested?
Rumour is that it's going to have to be pulled as the scaffolding isn't designed to cope with a safety net .
reeksy
Full MemberPretty sure in Matt’s vid that was already there when they were looking at it and they said it was temporary and going to be removed.
Plus, just look at it- it's a bit of chipboard sheet with a bunch of planks screwed into it from the TOP, plus a few scaff poles under. I'm assuming it was a bit less shonky than it looked, probably the planks are sandwiched with others underneath, but I didn't even like seeing people stand on it, you'd definitely not want to land a bike on it.
somafunk
Full MemberThe one person that I thought would have a go (Gee) didn’t jump it, I wonder why?
He's not racing the actual event. I mean, he's also 39 now, and just recovered from smashing himself to pieces, and doesn't have a lot to prove or really that much to gain from it either I reckon.
