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I will be signing the petition. I think it is totally unfair for E&T to have had to tender for their own business in the first place and I think the thought of being booted out probably has taken up a lot of their time over the last few years. After all, it was only a few years ago the same thing happened along at Innerleithen - they legitimately took over the uplift and developed that venue in to a buzzing success; visitor numbers were up, local businesses were benefitting from increased visitor numbers and the town was booming with new mountain bike-oriantated businesses popping up left right and centre. Then FC decided too many people on the hill was a risk to H&S and called a stop, later offering the business out under new rules through a tendering process. OK so now there is a comfy bus but the venue has flopped and all those new businesses are feeling the pinch. Once all that passed E&T had a few months of being led to belive that FC was going to build a new centre and invest in Glentress, however as the budget went up and up it soon became obvious that another tendering process was to be sprung upon them. The Hub has only been going for 10 years and is just at the point of being able to expand itself - not that their landlord would allow anyway. So I think all these people who moan about the lack of investment should step back and realise that E&T would if they could, but they can't because it doesn't suit the FC plan. I think its worth pointing out all the investment that they have put in which no-one gives them credit for either - running Kids Club for all those years until the parents realised they could get more free stuff from someone else, and Tracy building parts of the freeride for £0 compared to how much did the wallride cost that is closed??? I think it is very unfair and I will not be supporting the new businesses, nor will I be renewing my permit.
I must admit that when I saw the news on this my initial reaction was 'oh no' then after successful counter-arguments I thought 'maybe the folk at the FC have more information at hand/know best on this'.
Not signing. Business is business and I see no special reasons to keep the hub
Business is indeed business, but speaking as someone who his own company, i can't see anything wrong in helping nice people out if you can. It's not like they are asking the mtb comunity to buy the land for them.
One day you might need a favour too.
No amount of petitioning is going to make this happen.
New business owners will have paid a premium on top of the probably quite high lease on the new premises.
To move the goalposts on them and have another cafe open on their doorstep would be grossly unfair.
Time for the girls to bow out gracefully as I think at present theyre not doing themselves any favours
at present theyre not doing themselves any favours
Whats happening??
Would you renovate a house you could be leaving soon
if i was going to sell a house which had a crummy kitchen, i probably would renovate it beforehand, yes. it would be worth more.
maybe the hub should have upgraded their facilities, and put future upgrade plans in their tender (assuming they didn't, given they are now having a petition saying they now will).
i don't get the whole 'mythical' love of the hub. it was alright, the banoffee pie was superb (although being asked if i wanted banana added to my banoffee pie was somewhat weird), but thats about it.
they lost the tender simply because their application wasn't good enough. alpine bikes application was clearly better - they're hardly some world-dominating multinational, are they... it'll probably be better, and in a year or two we'll have forgotten the furory over the hub (as we sup our coffee/cake/milkshake)
going around bad-mouthin the FC is hardly a great thing to do if they want to stay in the industry either - i'd certainly not want them involved in any project i was about to run now...
if nobody had liked the hub, it came up for tender, and it was chosen again against a more 'popular' choice, you'd all still be up in arms about 'government favouratism' or something...
Whats happening?
Setting up online petitions inspite of losing a fair and square tendering process
Airing a lot of dirty washing in public through FB etc
A few other silly petty things I've heard about thru friends that work at Glentress that I wont go into here.
It's hardly very professional and given that FC are involved with most MTB venues in Scotland so it would seem not really conducive to any further business ventures they might have in mind in the MTB arena. Also as this has become a very public spat given todays internet I'm sure future business partners/landlords are taking note of attitudes as we speak
It was a ratty old portacabin/toilets but I just assumed it was what they were given to work with and it had a sort of 'charm' especially with the porch in summer 🙂
Fair enough re. history, it does seem to me that GT established/cemented trail centres as "good things" in the UK.
While it will be sad to see the old Hub cafe go, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to sign the petition. From the very limited information that's come my way, it seems as if they were involved in a tendering process with other groups, and another local business won that process - Glentress Hotel?
I think if there was some suggestion that the tendering process was biased or unfair in some way, I'd be more than happy to lend what support I could, but there don't seem to be any complaints about that side of things. Is there more to the story than meets the eye?
Absolutely pointless.
Business has nothing to do with loyalty. If it was so important to them they should have stepped up their game a few years ago, this isn't something that's come out of the blue, they signed up to a limited lease.
I have to bid for work 365 days a year and get pissed off every day when someone else 'buys' it from under my nose.
Old chinese proverb say 'Tough Shit Cookie Boy'!
If they are good as everyone reckons they will come bad bigger and stronger.
I'm not holding my breath though!
Sans leurs efforts quotidiens, leur prise de risques et leur passion pour le sport, Glentress ne serait jamais devenu le premier centre de VTT en Europe
well I certainly disagree with that.
whereas red bull at Coed y Brenin, 1997
Aye, I remember riding CyB while the very first few sections of singletrack were being built. I was on yr 8 camp at secondary school, so that would have been 1996.
What about a petition for me! my Petrobras contract is up at the end of the month and there is nowt I can do about that, thats why its called a contract/lease, I know the contract is being extendend just not with me, so I asked why, they said you are two expensive! I said fair enough, move on, BLOODY BRAZILIANS!
Have they asked or been told why they were unsucesful with their tender? Surly this information is not a secret? If it's fair cop then the petition is a waste of time move on, IMO.
PS any one got a job for me come the begining of march? Will work for bike parts, Hope loveliness preferred! 😆
The wording of the petition is a bit odd and it smacks of desperation. In the response to them losing the bid they said that 300000 people using glentress was wildly optimistic. If this is so why would anybody agree to have 2 places on the same site diluting the numbers even further. Look hub you lost the bid as you thought it was unwise financially to pay too much. Somebody else has taken a greater risk, maybe it will work out for them maybe not. Good luck for your next project though But I think it is time to move on.
hungry monkey - MemberWould you renovate a house you could be leaving soon
if i was going to sell a house which had a crummy kitchen, i probably would renovate it beforehand, yes. it would be worth more.
Even if you didn't own the house ❓ 😯
GEDA - Member
The wording of the petition is a bit odd and it smacks of desperation. In the response to them losing the bid they said that 300000 people using glentress was wildly optimistic. If this is so why would anybody agree to have 2 places on the same site diluting the numbers even further. Look hub you lost the bid as you thought it was unwise financially to pay too much. Somebody else has taken a greater risk, maybe it will work out for them maybe not. Good luck for your next project though But I think it is time to move on.
Opinion rejected!
Good luck to the previous leaseholders, thank you for being part of a great experience for me everytime I visited and I wish you all the best for your future business.
I will shop with you. Thank you.
Which bit?
The bit about the hub not wanting to bid too much as the figures were pie in the sky?
Or that somebody has taken a risk and bid more and it would be a bit unfair to have another outlet on the same site. What happened at kielder was interesting as the original place just moved across the road. A lease these days is just that, a finite amount of time.
I was not going to chip in but I just cant help it.
All the parties should avoid getting into a slagging match since its a done deal and it will just look bad for everyone.
I signed the petition to show support for E & T but I will also be supporting Olly when he opens at the Peel. I have stayed at the GT hotel a few times and I rate what he has done there.
I interpreted the petition as a request to buy the land and build a new cafe as an alternative to the Peel. They have always rented the land and so have never been able to invest in the premises. It will be an alternative because they will be very different, offering a different product. (yes it will be food and er food)
But...
I doubt they will be successful and fundamentally I feel they should look at opportunities elsewhere. Ideally it would be good for all of us if they could set up in Innerleithen although I suspect openings are hard to find over there.
Under the FC we have seen the systematic neglect of the UK's forests, their short sighted incompetent management of these valuable resources have seen us reduced to a situation where the public ownership of the forests is at question ❓
Every suitable forest in the country, could be a recreational facility, it is not and will not be under the FC.
Lack of promotion, lack of innovation and a distinct lack of being in touch with the individuals visiting these locations, has left us in a very poor situation
To claim that these short sighted, idiots, who are but minions of bureaucracy, have the ability to make this kind of decision, is an insult to every free thinking person in this country.
The hub should close because the FC has decided that what we need at glentress is a new £9m building, to experience the outdoors WTF 😯
How many of our own forests would £9m have bought ❓
No, the hub is closing as they were a temporary business in a temporary building who's lease has come to an end. They were invited to bid on a new lease and lost to another local enterprise.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the systematic neglect of the forests has given me many good places to ride my bike
Kaesae bringing his own inimitable brand of logic to the thread, nice one. Still none of it will matter when the floods strike, or the earthquakes, or the stellar realignment.
You've hit the nail on the head there kaesae son. The FC have a lot to answer for when it comes to Glentress and all the trails there.
The fc grow trees softwood trees. In this country they grow too quickly so the wood is not very good quality. Most pine tree forests in this country are dark and full of midges not great places to hang out. Where are you suggesting they get the capital and customers for another load of glentresses? Most of the forests around me have a few walks but the shooting rights are probably worth the most.
So £500,000 is enough investment, over how many years ❓
The forest is also well managed and run, so all of the trails and existing forestry commision facilities are spot on ❓
We have a massive resource and nothing is happening with it ❓
The situation is so bad that the forest will more likely than not get sold.
Show me one success story by the FC, that didn't involve outside bodies also participating ❓
They seem to have chopped a lot of trees down in kidland. Not sure if they had any help.
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/carron-valley-spot-the-difference
http://www.carronvalley.org.uk/
Tip of the iceberg!
Carron Valley still has better access and more miles of bike-specific trail than most private forestry in the UK...
Northwind - Member
Carron Valley still has better access and more miles of bike-specific trail than most private forestry in the UK...
Ok that's great, woo and hoo
This is one of my favourite car parks
For canoeing in 😯
you do realise that local riders picked the hill at Innerleithen a long long time before the FC ever knew MTB existed? Although you're quite right, the FC never should've let the Tweed roam free or for rain to happen
>How many of our own forests would £9m have bought?<
If you can be arsed with the mental cruelty of FOI'ing them you might ask where and how many of our forests were sold to fund it? 🙂
For better or worse FCS has gone considerably out of its way to create a 5 star tourist attraction at GT and they clearly felt The Peel to be the embodiment of that.
Sadly I believe that E&T fate was sealed a long time ago. As other (minor) partners have previously found to their cost - you don't challenge FCS and come out on top.
Business is indeed business, but speaking as someone who his own company, i can't see anything wrong in helping nice people out if you can.
That is very nice and you are to be applauded. Unfortunately, you are talking about a private business (yours) and not a public business (FC). Legally, they cannot 'help nice people out' - all tenders have to be open competition, transparent and fair - because the taxpayer insists upon that sort of thing. What is good, legal and proper cannot be bent when it suits - it is even handed if nothing else.
The Hub was a pretty lousy cafe so I can't say I'll miss it.
Although, I do miss the original cafe at CyB, which served excellent home made food, and the Little Chef clone they replaced it with is pretty poor food wise - although the hot showers after an NPS race are a Godsend.
Although, I do miss the original cafe at CyB
I hope you mean some earlier incarnation and not the shithole that was there before the current owners. The staff needed slapping into some sort of action.
Legally, they cannot 'help nice people out' - all tenders have to be open competition, transparent and fair - because the taxpayer insists upon that sort of thing. What is good, legal and proper cannot be bent when it suits - it is even handed if nothing else.
LOL
I've had this discussion before but your are describing the principle, not the actual, tendering process.
I know first hand you can engineer a public procurement process to get whatever outcome you want. I imagine it can even be done in a way that would be legally defensible.
Systems are great but people are people. Outright faith in the absolute correctness of things is usally (IMO) misplaced. Life operates in shades, not monochrome 😉
As for the Hub, after listening to Tracey's (IIRC) IMBA workshop and the strong anti-FC opinions she held I am not surprised at the current outcome. Time and again they have shown you can rarely win by going toe-to-toe with them. It's a real shame because they're a far from perfect (you could argue even "good") organisation. Ironic now that we're all (ish) fighting for the "devil we know" in the face of the ConDem's crappy proposals.
That's not to deny that we haven't got quite a few formal trails on "our" land that FC manage. However, I think it could have been so many more, so much better and ironically that might well have made the current Gvernment propossals even less likely to succeed.
Hey ho 😎
Am I missing something here?
Its not likely the tender was won by some massive global corporation. Its not McDonalds or Starbucks taking over its the guys that run the hotel down the road.
Good points cheekymonkey.
Relationship issues with FC, short term existing lease, competing with Scotlands largest outdoor retailer (who can well afford to take a ££+ commercial view on the added prestige this facility will bring them) and experienced caterers who are all but on site already.
Good luck to both Alpine and the GT Hotel but as I said earlier, FCS embarked on a grand 'corporate scheme' - some might say the antithesis of partnership working and in my view, very much with the outcome we now have in mind. Two ways to have avoided this would have been a.) for The Hub and FCS to have gone forward together or b.) for E&T to have formed a consortium with other local people and businesses to make a bid to buy or lease the land under the National Forest Land Scheme.
The problem is, it simply isn't in FCS DNA to facilitate this kind of arrangement - they are deeply entrenched in the business of protecting what they see as 'their role.' They clearly feel that schemes like The Peel underscore their importance / relevance. Going slightly off at a tangent but this does come round to the whole land debate and the proposed sell offs in England - it's not actually the people who own the land (common good) it's the Ministers! It's notionally our land but if communities and local busineeses want to have more control over what happens on it, the Forestry Commission will need to be reformed.
More here for those interested:
http://www.andywightman.com/wordpress/
It would be interesting to know the ins and outs of the respective tender responses but knowing how these tender situations work and the FC aims for GT, I imagine the tender would have stated something along the lines of
"The FC has a plan of X for GT, please tell us how you will contribute to this"
and I imagine the current hub owners were probably quite honest in stating that they didn't believe the targets set by the FC were achievable and they stated their own estimates for visitors, revenue, bums on seats etc whereas the succesful bidders proposal was more in line with the FC expectations.
I do suspect here may be some truth in that BoardinBob.
My thoughts exactly boardinbob, all above board and legal, but realistically utter bullshit.
How are we to ensure that the two new businesses are keeping to their end of the deal, when we don't know what the deal is?
Is there any way to learn what the conditions are and to also monitor if they are adhered too ❓
I hope the new place has better quality cheese than the hub.
Ways to lose a tender process, lesson 1: Tell those in charge that they're talking s**t.
Personally I couldn't care less if the terms & conditions aren't adhered to. I won't using the shop and as long as the cafe has good cake that's all I'm interested in!