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If two pedestrians are walking abreast and taking up the whole path, as a cyclist in the opposite direction, are you supposed to turn around and head back?
Ninety nine times out of a hundred (probably higher since I have never come across anyone who hasnt) they will move to single file. If not then stop and let them walk round you.
Of course the move to single file becomes more problematic if you are approaching them at a high speed.
What if I want to sail my schooner on a shared use path? What are my damn rights? It's not like we impose any restriction on electric bikes using the high seas m'hearties, where's my equality and rum?
If they are moving towards you then you stop and allow them to pass
Stop and go where though? If the path is two-people wide and they insist on walking two-abreast - as is their right apparently - you have nowhere to go but backwards on a bike.
A far better rule is to ask people to stay left unless no traffic. This allows faster path users to overtake and eliminates conflict from people going in opposite directions.
What if I want to sail my schooner on a shared use path?
Depends where you live? come winter and local flooding you may be able to do this to find out.
I may splash out on an electric schooner in that case Kuco, ain't no speed limits on that.
Stop and go where though? If the path is two-people wide and they insist on walking two-abreast – as is their right apparently – you have nowhere to go but backwards on a bike.
A far better rule is to ask people to stay left unless no traffic. This allows faster path users to overtake and eliminates conflict from people going in opposite directions.
And any of this is improved by INCREASING the ebike speed limit?
Btw, .... not my experience. I find the vast majority of walkers move over and give me space if I roll up to them at a slowish pace and politely let them know I'm there. Yes, I have to slow down.... so what, no big deal, it's about sharing.
When I'm not mtbing and riding trails and want to push on a bit I ride on the road (in fact riding to trails on my mtb I pretty much always ride on the road.
The roads are de facto cars only. This leaves commuting cyclists short-changed and forced to fit themselves around the wants of others; only cyclists lack their own routes.
I manage to cycle commute primarily by road, but also on occasion by shared use path, both without dying under a car or without mowing down a ped, my bikes happen to be fitted with brakes, and a bell...
But if you think adding more speed, whilst being scared off of roads and simultaneously bullying peds off paths is the best way, who knows, clearly you have insight and clarity the rest of the world lacks. I mean if I was allowed to just kick dogs out of the way and crank the leccy up to 11 I could be at my desk what, ten? Maybe fifteen minutes earlier? Sounds great... You've convinced me!*
*(I'm being facetious, just so it's clear)
If you stop, the pedestrians will, bizarrely, walk around you. It's almost like they understand that you are a solid object that must be negotiated. Unless they are visually impaired. Then make sure they are clearly aware you are there. This also applies toi the hearing impaired. Someone not reacting ti your bell, or call, may not hear you.
The roads are de facto cars only. This leaves commuting cyclists short-changed and forced to fit themselves around the wants of others; only cyclists lack their own routes.
Even by STW science that’s a bit of a stretch.
15mph avarage is slow for a roady. Thats entry level club run speed, with 17av being inters
This roadie reckons on 15mph as his average. Luckily our club has somewhat lower standards for their rides, and went from 0 to 400 members in 3 years on the back of it.
And any of this is improved by INCREASING the ebike speed limit?
You seem to be jumping to that inference on your own.
Btw, …. not my experience. I find the vast majority of walkers move over and give me space if I roll up to them at a slowish pace and politely let them know I’m there. Yes, I have to slow down…. so what, no big deal, it’s about sharing.
When I’m not mtbing and riding trails and want to push on a bit I ride on the road (in fact riding to trails on my mtb I pretty much always ride on the road.
It's true that most do allow space but the rules are there to provide clarity for the people who can't behave reasonably or are dumb. Our roads are governed by rules such as stay left so it seems sensible to apply that to paths in use for cyclists too.
Telling cyclists who object to the chaotic nature of the shared paths to go on the road is a BS thing to say. This is half the problem with our national transport strategy; the roads are a dangerous place for people on bikes and we should be separating cyclists from traffic, and if cyclists and pedestrians are so complementary then why not let cyclists use pavements too? The answer is we don't do that because bikes and pedestrians don't combine well, so why is teh strategy to get cyclists off the road to put them on shared-use paths? It's not logically consistent.
It’s not logically consistent.
Its because in many cases it is just a messy compromise since to have cyclist only paths would need to turn roads into single lanes or, even worse, sacrifice some on road parking.
In other cases it is because they are primarily leisure routes eg many of the old railway paths.
And any of this is improved by INCREASING the ebike speed limit?
You seem to be jumping to that inference on your own.
As you are making the case for increasing the speed limit I was asking you, not inferring that I thought it it was correct. I certainly do not.
Btw, …. not my experience. I find the vast majority of walkers move over and give me space if I roll up to them at a slowish pace and politely let them know I’m there. Yes, I have to slow down…. so what, no big deal, it’s about sharing.
When I’m not mtbing and riding trails and want to push on a bit I ride on the road (in fact riding to trails on my mtb I pretty much always ride on the road.
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It’s true that most do allow space but the rules are there to provide clarity for the people who can’t behave reasonably or are dumb. Our roads are governed by rules such as stay left so it seems sensible to apply that to paths in use for cyclists too.
Telling cyclists who object to the chaotic nature of the shared paths to go on the road is a BS thing to say. This is half the problem with our national transport strategy; the roads are a dangerous place for people on bikes and we should be separating cyclists from traffic, and if cyclists and pedestrians are so complementary then why not let cyclists use pavements too?
Again, I ask you, how does increasing the ebike speed limit improve the situation?
whilst being scared off of roads and simultaneously bullying peds off paths is the best way,
All that I would ask on shared-use paths is for people to stick to the left unless it's a quiet time of day. This helps organised the traffic and enables predictable overtaking and prevents head-on collisions. The slow should have right of way over the fast as an addendum to those rules; nobody has to get out of anyone's way if they stay left.
Again, I ask you, how does increasing the ebike speed limit improve the situation?
I'm not saying it would. The discussion has drifted. But the keep left rule I propose would certainly make faster cycling less risky to walkers.
All that I would ask on shared-use paths is for people to stick to the left unless it’s a quiet time of time
What counts as a quiet time of day?
How does this work on something like the monsal trail? Might not be the best family outing if instead of being able to walk along next to each other its a long queue of people.
Also how does it stop head on collisions? At the moment speeds are kept down by the groups of people you need to weave around. With your suggestion there will be higher average speeds so if i happen to overtake a family group (so with the single line lets say 10m long) and you are coming the other way on your ebike seems like we could have a nasty smash which wouldnt have happened if that group had slowed us both down waiting for them to go single line.
Also how does it stop head on collisions?
if you are cycling down the trail and another cyclist comes in the opposite direction, how do you know what side to pass him/her on?
The answer is you don't. Although most cyclists seem to know tacitly that we pass left, some don't and wobble all over the place, some are almost psychotically committed to passing right regardless of the position of the oncoming cyclist.
It's unregulated and crashes are caused due to this.
It’s unregulated and crashes are caused due to this.
Ah yes. I see now. & increasing the speed of electric assistance will obviously improve the outcome.
Doing absolutely nothing to prove me wrong. Speaking of proof...
I cant see the point in any change and on shared trails I would always slow down or even stop if I thought it necessary. Blasting past someone close at 15 mph isn't on, nevermind at speeds any higher, assisted or not.
I won't be signing it
Blasting past someone close at 15 mph isn’t on
That's what motorists do but even faster.
I commute every day on an ebike, mostly on roads but some cycle paths. ~15mph safely on an urban cycle path requires a much higher level of skill than many commuter cyclists have.
I’m used to driving, riding a 50cc scooter, riding a horse and mountain biking, so I’d say that I have a better awareness of both the observation and judgment side of riding, as well as bike handling skills. Plus my bike has big tyres, big brakes and lots of suspension travel - overkill for commuting but it does mean it’ll stop a damn sight quicker than any short wheelbase, high saddled, skinny tyred bike.
The thought of less experienced or complete beginner cyclists being able to legally whizz around town at ~20mph or more seriously worries me. 15mph is more than fast enough. If you want to go faster you can pedal harder or use gravity - I do both but at least a bike going fast downhill is not unexpected. The amount of illegal ebike use is bad enough!
That’s what motorists do but even faster
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean you have to. Didn't your mum teach you that?
Matt, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Forgot to add, I also failed my cycling proficiency at primary school, I am a hacked ebike liability.
Yep, you're right. It's a bad idea. Let's stick with what we've got now, cos that's working really well. That congestion, obesity, asthma, lung disease, depression, road rage and stuff, they're not really serious problems at all.
All of which are caused by having an e-bike limit of 15.5mph? 😯
Yep, you’re right. It’s a bad idea. Let’s stick with what we’ve got now, cos that’s working really well. That congestion, obesity, asthma, lung disease, depression, road rage and stuff, they’re not really serious problems at all.
Indeed, it's almost as if people need to learn to slow down, relax and enjoy life at a more sedate pace... Maybe somewhere around 15.5mph or less?...
It's a spurious claim but I'm going to go with the cost of ebikes and the good old British weather being more of a barrier than a 15.5mph speed limit.
Ah, regulations. They definitely help keep accidents down to zero, eh?!
And the 'chaotic nature of shared paths'. What sociopathic dystopia do you live in?
By the way, these are rhetorical questions. Too many ludicrous arguments against things that almost never happen in reality. And anytime anyone uses the USA as a barometer for behaviour...
I'm out.
Too many ludicrous arguments against things that almost never happen in reality.
Like 20 mph e-bikes having their brakes explode in flames and causing shockwaves to pedestrians? 😀
If you want to go faster than an ebike allows, get yourself an electric scooter. One that requires a license etc. However my old 50cc scooter was slower than my ebike because of the less direct route which involved a set of traffic lights, plus the ebike isn’t much slower uphill and is faster downhill when it’s steeper - it’s mostly just slower on the flat.
Looking at some of my recent ebike commutes on strava; it’s only short, I can do it in under 10 minutes either way, it’s just under 3 miles with 150’+ of climbing one way and 400’ the other:
Average speed 17.2mph on the way in (max speed 29.3mph) and 15.8mph on the way back (max speed 34.2mph). 100% legal Levo, built up for gnarly MTBing (Hillbilly 2.6 on the front!) in turbo mode plus keen pedalling!
eBikes don’t need to go faster. The argument that they need to be faster to be safer is right up there with the NRA saying more guns will stop gun crime.
Education is the answer, both sides need to learn to tolerate each other, to not behave like idiots and to just look after each other.
Can we also have a petition to make all eBike users legally obliged to load their rides to Strava properly?
“Can we also have a petition to make all eBike users legally obliged to load their rides to Strava properly?”
I put them up as private rides so they don’t show on leaderboards etc. I’m not uploading them as ebike rides because few of the segments exist and on my local trails I marked out about half the segments for normal bikes, so I’m not doing it again (and the steeper shorter segments can’t be created now because strava won’t allow such short segments).
Yep, you’re right. It’s a bad idea. Let’s stick with what we’ve got now, cos that’s working really well. That congestion, obesity, asthma, lung disease, depression, road rage and stuff, they’re not really serious problems at all.
Fixing those problems has f all to do with a speed limit on an eBike. Be great if the country switched from high car use to high bike use but the speed limit of 15.5mph as a deterrent is probably around number 100 on the list of reasons it won't happen with the top of the list being dangerous/careless driving and crap weather.