[Closed] Patrol or Reign?

Transition aren't a Santa Cruz or yeti standard in my eyes

I'm not sure people realise these trendy brands are all churned out by a few factories, eg my yeti was made by Giant. I'm sure my transition is a similar story.

I don't/can't class Yeti even at Transitions current level.

This is the most bizarre thing I've read in a while!

My Transition smuggler has been fantastic, the bearings are really well protected and have lasted amazingly well compared to my Giant Trance and Yeti ASR5 before that, the Trance in particular seemed to get through a lot and there were a lot to change. I've not ridden a Reign but the lack of joining bridge on the shock link, so the two halves can move independently and put lots of pressure on the shock mount would put me off.

I'm not sure people realise these trendy brands are all churned out by a few factories, eg my yeti was made by Giant. I'm sure my transition is a similar story.

I'm well aware there are only a 'few' decent carbon manufacturers out there who make bikes for multiple brands.

This is the most bizarre thing I've read in a while!

Why? My own experience was a sh*t show. The bike basically fell apart & was appallingly put together. As expected the warranty was a complete ballache to deal with, which considering my circumstances at the time made it even more amazing.

At a recent race there was a guy behind me grumbling with a current SB6 which was a few weeks old & had a tasty crack through the seat tube he'd only just spotted. It was his second warranty frame in less than a year.

So it's a toss up between a dull Reign with a lifetime warranty, cheap hard wear, crap paint and poor shock mounts.

Versus.

A Patrol with a 2 year warranty that will more than likely have alignment issues and flaky paint that sits too low in its travel?

My initial excitement of finally getting a new bike seems to have waned somewhat.

dull Reign

more than likely have alignment issues

Cobblers - you really need to not let people on internet forums sway your opinion so much! They're both awesome bikes and unless you are some kind of riding god will be more capable than you ever will. If you can't base it on a test ride base it on how well it should fit you on geometry on paper.

sits too low in its travel

you can easily tune a shock with bottomless rings to increase the spring rate and set sag wherever you want it, I know someone running 5 on their patrol because they do a lot of very big jumps, I run two on my smuggler (and my paint hasn't flaked off)

My Patrol has no alignment issues and the paint is fine.. it has a low BB, that's part of what makes it good 🙂

Wouldn't really class the Reign as dull, it's probably the funnest bike I've owned, just tune the shock to suit....
My reigns bearings have already outlasted by 3 times the life of the bearings in my old patrol and the shock mounts are showing no sign of wear either.

As for paint, find me a bike with decent paint these days, they're a rare thing, mines normally too dirty to notice anyhow but seems to be holding up ok.

As BigJim said, they are both awesome bikes, the Reign is just that bit more awesome for me

This is the most bizarre thing I've read in a while!

.

A Patrol with a 2 year warranty that will more than likely have alignment issues and flaky paint that sits too low in its travel?

no issues with my transition.

Cobblers - you really need to not let people on internet forums sway your opinion so much!

Sorry, my sarcasm levels were running high this afternoon.

If I'm honest I think I'm trying to talk myself out of the Patrol. On paper and reading the reviews it's the bike I want, the way it rides and looks, all the bits that appeal to me ie full carbon/threaded bb (granted not deal breakers but nice to have) and as someone mentioned earlier they're one of the smaller companies which appeals to me as I tend not to follow the crowd.

The 2 year warranty I can kind of look past as the chances of me keeping it longer than two years are minimal, what it will be worth in two years I don't know but I imagine it won't be much. The one thing I can't look past is the low bb/35% sag and pedal strikes. 165mm cranks sound short, would I notice the difference coming from 175mm? I don't know. What would it be like to live with pedalling round the Lakes and other rocky places?

The Reign I know I could buy tomorrow, thrash it to death and have no worries But I think I'd always have it in the back of my mind that I'd gone with the safe option. I don't mean that in a bad way as by all accounts it's a cracking bit of kit, I don't know.

Rune?

The BB on the Reign is pretty low too (342mm) Vs the Patrol at 339. The 5mm difference in travel probably accounts for some of the static sag difference too.

I think you are over-reading it. I ran 170's on the Reign, still run 170's now. Pedal strikes are rare (although I do run less sag) but you can always play with the suspension settings and tunes to run less sag but get a good setup 🙂

Rune?

My last bike was a Spitfire, I would have gone for a Rune but this years colours don't really do it for me.

I think you are over-reading it.

Guilty as charged. Are you running an X2? It would also be interesting to know if the Patrol qc issues are related more to the 16 frames than the 17 frames.

No issues with my Covert and I'd happily buy another Trany.

Is an Ally Trany really Santa Criz money ?

So it's a toss up between a dull Reign with a lifetime warranty, cheap hard wear, crap paint and poor shock mounts.

None of that is true. Especially if you're buying a 160mm travel bike. If you're doing that, then you're riding hard and fast. Otherwise any bike at 160 is gonna feel dull compared to the bike you *should* have bought.

Whats wrong with the shock mounts? I've never noticed anything about them on mine.

Sorry rickon, it was my attempt at a sarcastic round up of all the bad points other people had pointed out.

I assumed that would be the case, still, it's all bunkum.

I've noticed no difference in pedalling going 165 from 175. I thought I would...

I most noticed pedal strikes previously when powering up over things like climbing up a tall step - rather than when descending.

Built a Patrol up over the last couple days gone from my normal 175mm cranks to 170mm and on yesterday's first ride all seems good, didn't notice any difference due to crank length.

The paint didn't flake on the first ride either so that was good, I've not checked frame alignment yet 🙂

Looking forward to a few more rides and see how we get on....

Are you running an X2? It would also be interesting to know if the Patrol qc issues are related more to the 16 frames than the 17 frames.

Yes, Float X2.

I would imagine like most things, 99% of frames are fine - the numbers of them out there Vs the numbers of issues are are minimal for both bikes really.

For what it's worth, mine is a '16 frame - no issues.

Just buy the Patrol.

*advert engaged*
In fact, if you are a medium buy one of our last Patrol carbon frames at £2599 and get a free full set of Guide Ultimates worth many pennies.
[url= http://pedalsbikecare.co.uk/shop/2016-transition-patrol-carbon-frame-free-guide-ultimates/ ]Patrol Frame Free Guides[/url]

The 2 year warranty I can kind of look past as the chances of me keeping it longer than two years are minimal, what it will be worth in two years I don't know but I imagine it won't be much. The one thing I can't look past is the low bb/35% sag and pedal strikes. 165mm cranks sound short, would I notice the difference coming from 175mm? I don't know. What would it be like to live with pedalling round the Lakes and other rocky places

you don't have to run it at 35% sag, I run mine at 30%. most bikes these days have low BB's and any pedal strikes I've had has been down to my own stupidity of pedaling in the wrong place

Saying a Reign is dull reminds me of Honda motorcycles beIng described the same. Competent effective and reliable. Think of cars you owned with character.
My Reign smashed a loop around a slippery Ullswater and Borrowdale last night and never noticed it was dull!

That's a good comparison Tomaso, I went from the Reign to a Process 153 which was way more engaging and fun - but definitely not as capable riding places like the Lakes.

[img] [/img]

I just look at the Reign and want to touch myself inappropriately.

pigyn, thanks for the heads up but it would have to be a '17 in blue I'm afraid.

I called Windwave this morning to see if there are any Patrols locally(ish) for a demo but the man in the know is at the Cycle Show until next week *blows raspberry*

Which fork are people running on the Patrol? The Lyric or Pike?

[img] [/img]

And a Patrol for balance.

My Reign smashed a loop around a slippery Ullswater and Borrowdale last night and never noticed it was dull!

How do you find it on the ups around places like the Lakes? Do you ever find slop etc gathers around the bottom shock mount?

Deville FCV.

you don't have to run it at 35% sag, I run mine at 30%. most bikes these days have low BB's and any pedal strikes I've had has been down to my own stupidity of pedaling in the wrong place

I agree with this, however I do run my smuggler at 35% or thereabouts and got used to the lower bb pretty quickly.

I've just moved to 170 cranks from 175 and that is a noticeable difference in terms of pedal strike, it did feel a bit odd climbing at first but I think I'm used to it now, I do have fairly long legs though. Personally I don't think I would go to 165, but I am a giant and it would be like riding a childs bike

I run 165mm cranks cause I'm a short arse lol

Not sure why, but the Patrol doesn't look "right" the way Transitions used to - maybe the funky seat mast, maybe the bowed down tube, maybe the small rear triangle. Just not right.

Just spoke to someone about ordering the Patrol, being 5' 9" barefoot with a 32" in seam he reckons I may be better on a large than a medium as they come up short?

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_PatrolCarbon.cfm

Size guide at bottom, but who you spoke to might know better if they've owned one. I'm not sure I'd class Transition as short, apart from Mondraker and geomotrons they're pretty much the longest reach around... teehee

Just spoke to someone about ordering the Patrol, being 5' 9" barefoot with a 32" in seam he reckons I may be better on a large than a medium as they come up short?

As bigjim said - other than the obvious freaks, the Patrol is one of the longest bikes out there. (1200mm+ WB on a large is a big bike, with nearly 460mm reach).

FWIW I run mine with a 170mm Fox 36 (with some custom internals).

Patrol looks 'cleaner' to me than the Reign, no FD mount, no brace between the stays etc. Not a great fan of the big logo, I always liked the fact about the Reign it wasn't covered in Giant logo's.

Given the choice between the two, I wouldn't swap back to the Reign, now i've got the setup right.

I'm 5'10 and a bit and originally bought a large, then downsized to a medium soon after, the large is LARGE, huge wheelbase, I had it set up with a 35mm stem but put a 50mm on the medium and it was a much better fit for, I also found the front didn't wash out anywhere near as much as with the large due to that fact it was much easier to get my weight in the right place in fast corners.

I think getting the right size when your 5'9-5'11 on most bikes is pretty hard these days as you fall right in most manufacturers overlap of sizes.

With the patrol I'd say go large if you like steady and stable and don't mind the extra effort when it's in the air or go medium if you want something more flickable (the medium still has a fairly big wheelbase).

Medium Reign on the other hand fits like a glove

All personal preferences of course...

Just looking at the numbers on a [u]medium[/u] Patrol v my old [u]medium[/u] Spitfire.

Reach is +2mm on the Patrol (large would be +25mm) and bb height is the same although sag will come into play there.

Was very happy size wise on the medium Spitty so looking at the numbers I'd be better off with a medium?

I am 6'1" and have long arms, I like big bikes so I have an XL with 35mm stem, its long! 1250mm wheelbase :). If you are 5'9" then I would think either a medium or large will be fine depending on how you like your bike set up, if you prefer a 50mm stem then a Medium should be fine, or go large with a really short stem if you want more wheelbase...

I'd buy that one from pygin, with the Guide Ultimates thrown in.... just had a look and found it online:

http://pedalsbikecare.co.uk/shop/2016-transition-patrol-carbon-frame-free-guide-ultimates/

[img] [/img]

I've been into Pedals to have a few bits done, and James is a really nice chap - well worth spending money with him if you can 🙂

Just looking at the numbers on a medium Patrol v my old medium Spitfire.

Reach is +2mm on the Patrol (large would be +25mm) and bb height is the same although sag will come into play there.

Was very happy size wise on the medium Spitty so looking at the numbers I'd be better off with a medium?

What size stem were you running on the Spitfire?

If it were a 50mm, you could run a 35mm on the large and only be gaining 10mm.

The only thing that I'd also look at it the ETT, as it is pretty short in the medium, as the seat tube is pretty steep. Probably be really good for you if you're 5'9 with 32" legs, and you'll have a short body.

Argh it does look so nice in Carbon!

What size stem were you running on the Spitfire?

If it were a 50mm, you could run a 35mm on the large and only be gaining 10mm.

The only thing that I'd also look at it the ETT, as it is pretty short in the medium, as the seat tube is pretty steep. Probably be really good for you if you're 5'9 with 32" legs, and you'll have a short body.

Sorry, but what would be good for me? The medium?

I ran a 50mm stem on the Spitty.

I'd love to help James but I think I'm going to have to go with the 17 blue and I have a full XT brake/groupset here!

...medium Spitty so looking at the numbers I'd be better off with a medium?

I've been fiddling around for a while optimising the fit/handling of my two bikes and saw that Lee McCormack (Mastering Mountain Bike Skills author and skills coach) has started offering a bike fit/setup consultation, so thought I'd try it.

http://www.llbmtb.com/ridelogic-bike-setup-system/

It's a clever system and seems to have worked well for me - my Spitfire had always felt great in terms of fit but my Zero still wasn't quite as ideal feeling. I've made some adjustments following his advice and it's great. Definitely worth considering when bike shopping and making expensive frame size decisions!

Looks like people are sizing up?

http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/patrol-riders-whats-your-height-frame-size-1019008.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/patrol-carbon-help-stuck-between-sizes-1010914.html

I'm 6'1" on a large with a 50mm stem & 810mm bars for reference & I like a reasonably 'big' bike (from experience, this is about the limit of what works for me - have also tried bigger, and much bigger).

My wife is 5'9.5" (apparently the half is important!) and she thinks my bike is hilariously large, she can't actually ride it properly.

She is on a large Nomad for reference (438 reach, 585 TT Vs 457 & 613 on the Patrol).

If you did go big, I would expect you would be forced into running a very short stem to compensate. Personally, anything under 50mm for me brings some odd handling traits i'm not a fan of.

I would have thought a medium with a 50mm stem is about on the money, and that's the same with both the Reign & Patrol, as they are so similar in size.

610 TT on the large Nomad - I knew it couldn't be THAT short, went and looked it up. 585 is the medium.

Crap - read that wrong! 🙂

Hob Nob - Member
Crap - read that wrong!

Wouldn't be all that surprising with SC, I guess. Bet the older Nomad was even shorter than that