[Closed] Naughty Froome?

How many riders suffer from asthma, is it more than the general population and is that suspect ?

There is a higher incidence among riders, I think. You could argue that pro-riders with medical support are more likely to be diagnosed because their lung capacity and performance are under far more scrutiny day-to-day.

Also I believe that there was some suggestion that the kind of efforts that pro-riders make may increase the likelihood of asthmatic symptoms - perhaps they cause a tiny bit of damage or scarring over time.

Having said that, if there was a genuine advantage to a non-asthmatic rider (dubious) then I'm sure a lot more would receive the diagnosis.

Prevalence of training at altitude, cold weather and long aerobic efforts make eia more likely according to the BBC coverage

someone needs to check what the hell was going on with the 35 year old Contador in the Vuelta.

He's got an uphill battle to get into the Giro/TdF next year, I'd say, looking at these previous cases which were pursued very heavily by WADA. Nine months seems to be the standard tariff.

Alessandro Petacchi scored 1352ng/mL and was initially cleared by the Italian federation following a test from the 2007 Giro d’Italia. WADA appealed and he was banned for a year because if was over the permitted limit he could not prove how much he had inhaled
Diego Ulissi scored 1900ng/mL during the 2014 Giro d’Italia and underwent PK tests but these did not replicate the results. His lawyer argued a crash on Stage 11 had caused his levels to jump up and he got a nine month ban, down from the two year tariff
Alexandr Pliuschin got a nine month ban in 2015
Norwegian cross country skier Martin Johnsrud Sundby was cleared by skiing governing body but WADA appealed and he got a two month ban. He was taking this for therapeutic reasons but the excess dose still meant a ban and he was stripped of his 2015 World Cup title

[url= http://inrng.com/2017/12/chris-froomes-salbutamol-case/ ]Source[/url]

If he fares much better than this (not sure how any athlete can prove how many puffs he's taken) then the screaming about favouritism for Sky will be deafening.

if there was a genuine advantage to a non-asthmatic rider (dubious) then I'm sure a lot more would receive the diagnosis.

Well as athletes across all sports have a much higher rate of asthma than the general population, then it's possible that plenty are 'helpfully' diagnosed.

Well as athletes across all sports have a much higher rate of asthma than the general population, then it's possible that plenty are 'helpfully' diagnosed.

It's possible, but as above, there are also genuine reasons why endurance athletes in pro-teams would be more likely to have mild asthmatic symptoms, and to have these picked up by the medics. So it's not all people gaming the system, by any means, particularly as the benefits of the drugs are debateable to say the least in non-asthmatic riders.

Regardless of whether Froome gets off, it high time that this asthma and general TUE bollocks got some scrutiny.

It's been abused for years and there seems to be no real will to stop it.

someone needs to check what the hell was going on with the 35 year Contador in the Vuelta this year

It occurred to me that the Vuelta this year was Bertie's equivalent of a footballer's benefit match from a dope testing point of view. He stayed just off the daily podium apart from the last competitive day on the Angrilu, thus avoiding having to take a test immediately after the stage. His overall result was also under the radar although he did make it onto the podium in Madrid due to a team combativity award or some such nonsense. The air time and adoration he received for his performance totally eclipsed Froomes win, his interview on Spanish tv actually blocked out the winners podium presentations and speeches. I commented at the time that I was sure that the Angrilu sample that he gave will never see the light of day, provided he retires and stays that way.

genuine reasons why endurance athletes in pro-teams would be more likely to have mild asthmatic symptoms, and to have these picked up by the medics

It's not impossible. Except he was tested pretty much every day.

Forgot to mention that tests for plasticisers, not to mention age distribution of Red Blood Cells, is effective in looking for blood doping now. One assumes he was tested for both of these too.

The Secret Pro is worth a read on this. The more a read, the stranger it seems, very odd indeed.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/secret-pro-thoughts-froomes-positive-bikes-ride/

Agreed, it doesn't make any sense - but the rules have to be the same for everyone.

Also liked this from TSP...

Did you know Powerbars turn to rocks when it gets a bit cold?

Yes because I live in England and take them up mountains with me. The berry ones are delish, but strictly for summer use only.

I think a good result would be a 12 month ban and the Vuelta title going to a proper racer we can trust, Vincenzo Nibali.

Did you know Powerbars turn to rocks when it gets a bit cold?

It was partly that fact that won Pantani the Tour in 1998. Ulrich and his Telekom team was sponsored by PowerBar. Ulrich suffered in the cold and bonked badly losing almost 9 minutes and the Tour on a cold wet stage 15, partly because he couldn't chew down the cold PowerBars. Pantani had more traditional Italian Piadinas which were easy to much on in the cold.

I find it a little bit sad that doping scandals have been reduced to whether someone had 5 puffs on an inhaler or 6....

Two Sky riders, two TdF winners, Two Asthma sufferers, Two drug controversies

All seems a bit too much of a coincidence to me

Two Asthma sufferers

Wiggins? That was allergies 🙂

I wonder if Landa will now be ruing his decision to go ride for Quintana at next years Tour 😉

[img] [/img]

I find it a little bit sad that doping scandals have been reduced to whether someone had 5 puffs on an inhaler or 6....

You do know it's twice the legal maximum limit and that he's now guilty until proven innocent?

Popped the day after a bad day.... hmm, col de jeux plane and Landis springs to mind.

My guess is he probably had a nebuliser, that would be about 10-20 times the usual amount of salbutamol you would take via a puffer. Not very convenient to take during a race, so I would imagine the test picked up the remnance of this. If this is the case they would have records to cover it.

I can confirm that taking loads of salbutamol does not increase performance, just heart rest and hyperactivity!

Is there still a limit for cafeine?

Surely caffeine self-limits? Just two espressos and I'm rapidly approaching Dresden. Can't see that helping with cycling performance.

If this is the case they would have records to cover it.

Assuming the laptop hasn't been nicked again... 8)

Have they checked to see what Emma Pulley was doing that day yet?

Caffeine has a limit - about nine espressos. has a heart-rate increasing effect on me that is measurable, but little other effects.

WADA are monitoring it and do test for abuse.

And metalheart, to abuse salbutamol, you'd just take it orally. It's available in tablet and suspension forms, a nebuliser is overkill.

TiRed - Member
Caffeine has a limit - about nine espressos. has a heart-rate increasing effect on me that is measurable, but little other effects.

Nine espressos would enable me to achieve significant short term weight losses!

Mrblobby you stand corrected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-37465803/wiggins-drugs-were-to-cure-medical-condition

Not looking good for Froome.
He doesn't carry much public empathy going into this to begin with.

I asure I have read of other trials that show it to be performance enhancing - even for non asthma people.

to get those levels he has been seriously hitting it. Not just a few puff on a puffer. You can also take it as tablets.

I am afraid this shows sky again in a very bad light. Basically they are all at it. I have always thought Froome to be a drugs cheat that had not been caught. Now he has.

Mrblobby you stand corrected

Ok, a[url= https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/30/bradley-wiggins-full-story-asthma-allergies-tues ]sthma triggered by pollen allergies[/url], or something like that. Story changed quite a few times 🙂

If he doesn’t get banned, stripped of the Vuelta because he manages to weasel his way out s it will make a mockery of the whole uci/pro cycling drugs stance!

There is currently no limit for caffeine. It is part of the WADA monitoring program, so athletes could be tested for it, but not banned.

If he doesn’t get banned, stripped of the Vuelta because he manages to weasel his way out s it will make a mockery of the whole uci/pro cycling drugs stance!

Disagree. In fact I think the opposite is true. Far too many grey areas here, as highlighted in this thread. This is a problem with the system, and it needs a good shakeup. I don't think there is any one person to point a finger at here. And I hope if anything, this at least triggers a proper discussion about it.

I love cycling. I love bikes. On or off road. Rain or shine. Have done for years. I used to love the professional sport but there have just been too many incredible scandals. This is the last straw for me.

Fortunately there are so many more positive aspects to the sport that I love that I can happily ignore the pro peloton. A succession of own goals, biting the hand that feeds will at some point poison the well from which all of these people with questionable morals drink. And unfortunately they deserve it.

I find it hard to express my disappointment but I am turning my back on this particular aspect of the sport as of this shambolic episode.

Regardless of what the UCI do, the euro fans hate froome and sky have no friends in the peleton. We will see booing or worse and the sport really looks a complete shambles again.

The problem I have is that I distrust the press as much, perhaps even more, than I distrust any particular cyclist.

THat and the one above
IT smells like Team US Postal all over again with wiggo and then this

TheDoctor - Member

If he doesn’t get banned, stripped of the Vuelta because he manages to weasel his way out s it will make a mockery of the whole uci/pro cycling drugs stance!

completely agree

solarider, completely agree though I fell out of love with the pro peleton when Armstrong came out of retirement, had believed Kimmage and Walsh for a number of years by this point and hoped his retirement would draw a line underneath it.

Watched Wiggins win and was happy for a bit, but the sky team left me cold, probably because the last team that dominated the tour had a Mr Armstrong as the team leader.

Sick of hearing Dave Brailsford trot out the same old bollocks, marginal gains was a crock of shite when the don't keep doctors records. The most important component is the rider, not the length of a stem on a bike, don't buy it at all.

I'll stick to watching DH and BMX and enjoy riding my own bikes.

Yes mine was a previous limit. Nicotine has been on the watch list too. 30g is definitely not performance enhancing though.

As for beta agonists, some studies show ergogenic effects. They do raise heart rate a little. But they do not improve VO2 or power in highly trained athletes.

Personally, I think he's innocent of an offence but guilty of failing a test. There are good reasons why that is possible. I also think he will receive a ban. Unless Sky start to collecting some quality data on Froome's salbutamol pharmacokinetics.

Solarider + twistedpencil yep agree totally, I may watch some spring cobbled races, but thats it!

For some brief thoughts it's pretty bleeding lengthy but:

Chris Froome and disease sure are good for one another. The story is that his asthma flared up at the Vuelta, hence the change in dosage. There was also the chest infection for which he took prednisone a few years back – most people don’t dominate the most challenging endurance events in the world when they are in optimal health, but Froome does it when at his worst. Wiggins, recall, was so stricken that he needed emergency meds flown in via Jiffy Bag, and he went on to win the Tour de France?

Being ill is a tremendous benefit for an elite Grand Tour cyclist. Quintana and Nibali should try it. Either that, or pharmaceutical companies are getting great testimonials for how well they work.

From this:

http://sportsscientists.com/2017/12/brief-thoughts-froomes-salbutamol-result/

As for beta agonists, some studies show ergogenic effects. They do raise heart rate a little.

Surely this is performance degrading not enhancing? The fact your heart rate is elevated slightly is often given as a reason for poor performance when tired or ill.

Surely this is performance degrading not enhancing? The fact your heart rate is elevated slightly is often given as a reason for poor performance when tired or ill.

It can be the opposite, sometimes when you exercise your heart rate stays low due to illness or fatigue

I’m really past caring now 🙄

Amazing how the guy in second place has asthma as well.