[Closed] Mr nice guy commuter-no more, thinking of going 'Falling Down' style

No capitals.

More capitals needed.

^bah!

'What is wrong with this picture?'

No capitals.

Im saving them to throw at cars

Get your Bikeability training!

If a driver's squeezing through when there's not enough space then you're not riding primary enough... you're letting them think there's space when there isn't...

Best advice I got when I was complaining about constant harassment and lousy driving was to pick a different route. Sometimes it means a bit of a detour but there's certain roads which seem to be too hard for drivers to cope with. Avoid those and pick the quiet side streets instead...

Remember, though, that if you're riding then you're part of the solution - keep going 🙂

It has an air of a Blackadder rant. Possibly from Melchett.

Id go for a Bar mounted glass breaking hammer, some smoke bombs, Pepper spray and a large handful of caltrops

If you're going for the full 'Falling Down' experience then surely you are going to need a rocket launcher, tv helecoter and bemused child watching the telly on his birthday?
If you choose to go down this path then I'm fully behind you. Can you prioritise BMW drivers first please, I swear you must have to pass a dickhead exam before they allow you to buy one.

Get your Bikeability training!

Just go crazy on the stupidzombie ****ers, their dead in the head !

Just make sure you film it all

Move to London, I never have any of that.

Chillax Makes it way easier and safer. Red light jump and pavement ride if necc. (After 10pm)

let all the drama happen in front of you before you get there. Also applies to cars, vans motorbikes, pedestrianism.

f a driver's squeezing through when there's not enough space then you're not riding primary enough... you're letting them think there's space when there isn't..

Yes its your fault not theirs
REMEMBER THIS 🙄

Choosing primary on an other position in the road does not protect any cyclist from the poor judgement and inadequate driving of all other road users.

I agree with cbike. If I ride like I'm in a hurry I always seem to get more annoyed by drivers behaviour. Now I ride a sit up and beg bike (Kona MinUte) which I couldn't go to fast on even if I tried, ride to work gently on it and never seem to get in any bother any more. And if someone does something really stupid, I just carry on and perhaps laugh at them for being so annoyed about as simple a task as driving a car.

In short, change your mental approach to cycling in traffic.

I think the psychology of driving is fascinating. So many people get so wound up about stupid things and do dangerous manoeuvres all in the name of "making progress" only to stop at the next red light where I waft past them (into the ASL). The same also applies to many cyclists and walkers before anyone points this out.

Keep a water-pistol full of grapefruit juice in a holster on the handlebars.
When cut up, cut into, or barged past..... just wait until you catch them up (it wont take long in traffic) then squirt their car bonnet in a childish manner with the grapefruit juice.

This will do two things:
Make the situation a little weird, and maybe funny. It will also cause the paint on the car to blister badly in about 3-4 hours time. Long enough to make sure they forgotten what you look like, and what you were wearing/cycling.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

@lardman, all you're doing there is letting it get to you. just chill out, it's their problem not yours.

Yes its your fault not theirs
REMEMBER THIS

Total misrepresentation of what I'm saying... utterly not the point.

Primary position is one of the cornerstones of the formal training funded by government - it's not some random idea I made up...

Also promoted by British Cycling... [url= https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/skills/article/izn20130830-Effective-traffic-riding-part-1-0 ]Primary position[/url]

We all know driving standards are lousy. Primary position is a method by which you can reduce the liklihood of these low standards impacting on your safety. It's putting you back in control.

By advising the OP to ride more primary I'm suggesting he takes charge of the section of road he is riding in, NOT treating him as a victim... precisely the opposite

[cough] brake fluid in a water pistol will peel the paint fairly promptly...[/cough]

DrP

I know what it is, I know what it does and I know when to ride it.
What it wont do is magically transform all other roads users into great drivers who dont make punishment passes or bad judgements
You clearly say the cause is they are not riding primary enough when the causes are many and varied and include some drivers being very bad at driving and making poor decisions primary wont stop this happening so its not necessarily the cause

My personal experience echoes junkyards.
I work in a biggish organisation. The thing that pisses the people who seek me out to moan about us (I am known as being one of those ultra fit people who can ride a.bike more than 300 yards) is Primary position. They don't care. Just get out of the way.......

Primary position just makes people try and barge me out of the way, sometimes literally trying to push me over to the side with their car. Seems to work ok if its to make them pass nice and wide bit if its a case of blocking the whole of a narrow lane i often just seem to provoke people, especially riding slowly uphills

Use of the primary position often pisses off drivers more, increasing the chances of them acting like a dumb ass.

I use it sparingly when I know my safety will be compromised by an overtake. Traffic island narrowing road - primary, narrowish bend - primary etc... On a 3 HR ride last Sunday I had a van revving its engine behind me whilst in primary and a car overtake on a blind right handed well into the other carriage. Seriously no idea what goes through these peoples mind

....." For a stinking soda ?"

Getting a bit sick of it here too. Maybe it's a grumpiness brought on by the lack of sunshine but impatient drivers are really pissing me off to the point where I want to chase them down and have a word.

Just seems to be a lots of motorist out there at the moment who when they come up behind a bike the only thought in their head is to immediately pass it, regardless of whatever else they might be about to do or whatever else is going on. My left turn coming up, oh look a cyclist, MUST PASS NOW... oh there's my left turn I'd better jam on the brakes. There's a roundabout coming up, oh look a cyclist, MUST PASS NOW... oh I'm on a roundabout on the wrong side of the road with oncoming traffic, let me pull in and oh look there's that cyclist ranting in my rear view mirror. There's a traffic island coming up, oh look a cyclist, MUST PASS NOW... argh I'm going to hit a traffic island must brake and pull in quickly 😐

Oh and I did have a word with a couple in a convertible the other day having made a ridiculously close pass into oncoming traffic on a narrow country lane, having caught him up at a busy junction about 30 seconds later. The passenger apologies saying the driver couldn't see what was coming the other way 🙄

I agree with junkyard, riding primary works most of the time but it doesn't stop the morons from attempting something stupid.

Last night I was on a road on an estate which is a bit of a rat run. Coming upto a blind left hand bend and there is a van parked on my left, half on the grass verge, half on the road. No probs I thought take primary to give enough clearance and to stop the car behind passing on a bend.

I was doing about 15-20 mph and this plantpot in a Peugeot behind overtook me on the blind bend. It would have took him about 5 secs longer just to wait whilst I got round the bend and got back to secondary.

I agree with junkyard, riding primary works most of the time but it doesn't stop the morons from attempting something stupid.

Last night I was on a road on an estate which is a bit of a rat run. Coming upto a blind left hand bend and there is a van parked on my left, half on the grass verge, half on the road. No probs I thought take primary to give enough clearance and to stop the car behind passing on a bend.

I was doing about 15-20 mph and this plantpot in a Peugeot behind overtook me on the blind bend. It would have took him about 5 secs longer just to wait whilst I got round the bend and got back to secondary.

I accept that Primary isn't the answer to everything - the standards of driving are way too low for it to work 100% of the time e.g in Simmy's example he clearly had to be even more primary than he was. But it is the recommended position where preventing a close overtake is likely to put you at risk as a rider... and from the OPs description this is one scenario where it could have been an effective tool for him to have employed...

Simmy's right - it works most of the time, but not always. For me, most of the time is better than none of the time...

Equally it depends on just how primary you go. At pinch points I'll go midway between the kerb and the pinch - very visible, no way anyone could pass. Same with passing parked cars in a narrow street where there could be 'just enough' space if I left it - better to fill that space. It's a bit like dealing with toddlers - give them very clear and assertive guidance about how you want them to behave and you're more likely to get compliance.

If a driver gets upset about this, I'd rather they were upset and behind me than upset and alongside me, close and at speed. They can get upset if they like but their opinion doesn't take precedence over that of British Cycling and professional cycling instructors paid by local councils to provide best-practice training...

I just go in my my car some days for a break ,as I get sick of people trying to kill me , I'm a Hgv driver and the standard I see from fellow professional drivers is just appalling some days , this week following a bulk tipper , two cars in front of the tipper one stopped to turn right , I saw it from behind and slowed down ,I have no idea what he was looking at but he just drove into the back of the cars (luckily no one hurt) .
To a lot of people out there we are just an annoying nuisance, but I'm sure a lot of those ignorant drivers would be completely nice out the vehicle passing each other walking on a path , it's just something about being behind the wheel that changes their attitude.

no way anyone could pass.

Won't stop them trying!

Most people are just ****ing stupid. Ever talked to an averagely stupid person? Well half of people are even more stupid than that.

But they are still allowed to drive cars.

I accept that Primary isn't the answer to everything - the standards of driving are way too low for it to work 100% of the time e.g in Simmy's example he clearly had to be even more primary than he was.

They can get upset if they like but their opinion doesn't take precedence over that of British Cycling and professional cycling instructors paid by local councils to provide best-practice training...

Look we get your point but really sometimes it is just the drivers fault and to constantly suggest the cyclist can do something to make the driver a better driver who makes better decisions is just manifestly false
This thread, and riding on the roads, shows this but still you say no more primary will stop it. all your posts accept this with phrases like

give them very clear and assertive guidance about how you want them to behave and you're [b]more likely[/b] to get compliance

please stop saying more primary to each incident

Won't stop them trying!

Agreed but in my experience they always stop just before they hit the concrete or whatever is creating the pinch point. Which is better than them hitting you cos you gave them what looked like enough space...

Even then, if they tank straight into the concrete then they come to a sudden stop with a busted car. Which is still better than them hitting you...

I accept that Primary isn't the answer to everything - the standards of driving are way too low for it to work 100% of the time e.g in Simmy's example he clearly had to be even more primary than he was.

With respect mate, I couldn't get anymore Primary. I wasn't just in the middle of my lane, I was more towards the White line so this plantpot surprised me.

Simmy's right - it works most of the time, but not always. For me, most of the time is better than none of the time...

Agree 100 % and I'm a Bikeabilty instructor 😀

Most car drivers will just panic and run you over its an instinct to avoid the hard thing and hit the soft thing but if you want to play chicken with them I wish you the best of luck

personally I will take primary ata pinch point and if they do that I will brake and get the **** out of their way as they are clearly not concerned for my welfare or their safety

It's a bit like dealing with toddlers - give them very clear and assertive guidance about how you want them to behave and you're more likely to get compliance.

This.

I never get impatience when riding in primary or assertively out of the door zone. In my experience, drivers are happy to wait behind you as long as they know what you're doing. As I said above, most people are ****ing stupid. They feel all warm and safe inside when someone is telling them what to do.

I wave thanks to patient drivers, and accept that nothing I do or don't do will change the attitudes or behaviour of the minority of dangerous and ignorant ones.

sometimes it is just the drivers fault

I'd take this further - it's ALWAYS the drivers fault if they drive dangerously.

Where we have to agree to disagree is whether I, as a rider, can do anything to reduce the effect of a bad driver's behaviour on me. I think I can. So do BC and Bikeability - that's what they teach - how to manage traffic.

I think the toddler analogy is apt. Most drivers are unaware of how they should behave around cyclists and the difference between that and how they do behave. With appropriate signalling and communication, you can demonstrate how you want them to behave... right there in the moment.

I never get impatience when riding in primary or assertively out of the door zone. In my experience, drivers are happy to wait behind you as long as they know what you're doing

Where we have to agree to disagree is whether I, as a rider, can do anything to reduce the effect of a bad driver's behaviour on me. I think I can.

I think you can reduce the occurrences of it happening but sometimes they happen. When they do the answer is not more primary or anything the cyclist could do as some drivers are just bad drivers

BLAME THEM NOT THE RIDERS POSITION

More of a Captain Darling rant. Melchett would be the driver, in the pub afterwards pointing out how correct he was and how purile the efforts (generally) of the cyclists are.

I've got stuff to do so I need to get off this thread but Junkyard - have you taken Bikeability? I've been riding 36 years and I did levels 2 & 3 a couple of years ago and I learnt loads... really, loads.

Level 3 was 1 on 1 with an instructor following me home on my regular commute and stopping every 10 mins or so for a feedback session on what he observed - I could never have learnt this myself - incredibly effective as training.

For e.g. on a main road when passing a car wanting to turn into the main road from a side turning, I was freewheeling - being cautious in case the car pulled out. The instructor saw me doing this and said keep pedalling - if you're not pedalling the driver may assume you're slowing or turning into their road, keep pedalling and it's a sign you're continuing to move forward at the same speed... little behavioural tips like that were invaluable and showed me how my own riding style could influence the behaviour of drivers... I can't recommend it enough

Fair point.

Baaaaaaaaah!

Everyone wants to ride in this place that you ride then
you are very lucky

I don't mean to sound smug. It's just that most of my riding is trouble-free.

I commute in West Yorkshire; mixture of rural and urban. The only incident I'd count as "serious" happened to me some years ago; a guy turned right across my path and I only just missed him. I went back for a word and he was very apologetic.

I use hand signals and road positioning to tell drivers what to do, I don't wear a helmet which means (according to research) drivers give me more room, I do a little wobble every now and then to discourage close passes, I ride out of the door zone, I take primary at pinch points, filter on the right, wave thanks to patient drivers, and stop at junctions forward of the stop line.

Maybe I have been lucky so far.

Most people are just **** stupid. Ever talked to an averagely stupid person? Well half of people are even more stupid than that.

this. The thought has gone through my mind a lot recently - some people are idiots, most of those idiots drive cars. And ive experienced more this week than for a long time.

i also recently did fuel efficiency driving lessons - much more than its name suggests, it taught me to view the journey as a whole rather than a race to the next lights / junction. I wish i could teach everyone what i learned in those 20 minutes. Quicker, cheaper, safer, less stress - win all round. But people just don't see it.

To the peeps suggesting I adopt the primary position- I do, I'm assertive, I block cars when coming to traffic islands etc and ride well away from parked cars to avoid cars behind pushing past and also to give me room to avoid being 'doored'.
But it doesn't matter, Vectra man came flying up behind carrying speed to do an overtake to then realise a car coming the other way so I got squeezed. Happens all the time.
Lack of forward planning/foresight with the cyclist being the least damaging object for car drivers to use as a bail out zone.

I use back roads as much as possible and have a nice section of Sustrans 6 to use but still.......

Interesting debate. I think a big part of the problem (and this was something mentioned on another thread recently) is that some people have absolutely no idea what will and will not delay their journey. Obviously delaying someone's journey is no excuse for a dangerous pass! But people just think: cyclist>slow>must pass, even though there may be a traffic jam ahead.

Just this morning I seen a woman riding very un-primary and a white tranny squeezed her badly at speed through a traffic island only for him to slam on for several cars just after the island and a red light. The woman just sailed past him and about 5 other cars. As has been mentioned some people really are a bit thick when it comes to driving safety but there's more to it than this.. I work with a few guys who I would consider fairly intelligent but they HATE cyclists.. Total irrational hatred like we dont belong on the road at all. Some of the shite they spout is unbelievable.