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Yes he is a cheat and doped but lets be honest did you think any of them were clean.
He still won 7 Tours against people who were doping as much as he did he still beat cancer and he did inspire a lot of people.
Some of the reports I have read sound like he is some kind of James Bond villain.
I still think he is a hero, tainted and grubby but we are all human and no one is perfect.
Biscuits?
against people who were doping as much as he did
No, everyone assumed he'd been doping, just as everyone else was. What came out this week was the sheer scale of a doping operation, organised on an industrial scale for the benefit of Lance Armstrong. Anyone that didnt toe the line was threatened and bullied.
He's a thoroughly nasty piece of work and shouldnt be role model to anyone.
When I read his book, I thought he came across as easy to admire but difficult to like. His constant lying & bullying makes him more difficult to admire.
However he did put the miles in, he did train as hard as anybody (I guess) & he did win 7 TdF's against people who were probably as doped as him. Amazing dedication.
I wouldn't buy him a pint if I was standing next to him in a pub though or even go in the pub if I knew he was in there.
If he had put his hands up and said that the nasty men made him do it he would still be a hero.
A tainted hero but we would all feel sorry for him.
This must be doing wonders for doping books.
It's fuel for the mediocre and the mundane on twitter.
This was for testifying against Michele Ferrari
One journalist recalled Simeoni’s face — it was wet with both his tears and the spit of the peloton.“Mr. Armstrong’s statement to Mr. Simeoni in which he referred directly to Mr. Simeoni’s testimony in a legal proceeding and said ‘I can destroy you,’ and Mr. Armstrong’s actions in connection with his threatening statement, constitute acts of attempted witness intimidation,” the USADA report reads.
And to Hamilton
and his former captain told him, simply: “When you’re on the witness stand, we are going to ****ing tear you apart. You are going to look like a *** idiot.” Hamilton further testified that Armstrong said, “I’m going to make your life a living… ***… hell,” according to the USADA papers.
Enjoy your hero
Yes he is a cheat and doped but lets be honest did you think any of them were clean.
Yes, I believe some were clean.
He still won 7 Tours against people who were doping as much as he did
If there was one clean rider in that race then he's no winner in my books.
he did he still beat cancer
He had access to exceptional healthcare and got lucky, he didn't stand up and have a fight with cancer that he won, saying that he beat cancer whilst others didn't belittles those that weren't so lucky.
I still think he is a hero, tainted and grubby but we are all human and no one is perfect.
True, nobody's perfect but that doesn't make Armstrong a hero. To qualify as a hero in my books you have to do something exceptional not be tainted and grubby. The heroes in this situation are the riders that rode clean, the ones that turned up to every race knowing that they were already at a disadvantage before the start line but gave it their all anyway.
Nobody knows how many riders were clean, it could be that all of them were doped could be just a handful chose to ride clean and I'm sure we could debate levels of 'clean' dependent upon what supplements were used but I like to hold on to the idea that somewhere down the list of finishers is a clean rider that 'won' the Tour.
He's like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry. Lies, cheats, bullies but get's the job done 😀
It's a weird one; never really liked him, think he's a cheat yet still think he was exciting to watch in his prime.
Same with Pantani, when he attacked it was a sight to behold despite the fact he was doped to the gills.
Both deserve/d the sanctions they got/get but a bit like porno stars taking Viagra, on tape they're still good to watch.
Muppetwrangler... other heroes are available 😉
A fallen hero yes, likeable no, but he's still been an inspiration to me in the past.
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Hero
>Yes he is a cheat and doped but lets be honest did you think any of them were clean.<
Nup - which is why the whole tdf thing washes right over my head.
Be good if there was just one thread where the baggage from the entire tawdry episode could be discussed ad nauseum.
So much of a "Hero" - they spelt his name wrong.
>>Millar<<
People seem to forget when discussing this, what it takes to become a champion. It takes balls, it takes arrogance, it takes the barking of orders, high demands and just being a bloody pain in the arse.
Nice guys finish last.
I don't hold his personality against him in the slightest... it's what makes a winner a winner.
David Millar only became a hero because of his actions after being caught for doping. Let's see what Lance does over the next 12 months.
he certainly made heroic efforts to get to the very top of his sport, but he's no hero.
strong - yes
courageous - yes
noble - no
it's what makes a winner a winner.
no it isn't. Chrisy Hoy is a winner because he wins stuff and is also an incredibly noble man.
I still think he is a hero, tainted and grubby but we are all human and no one is perfect.
If you like tainted and grubby heroes have you considered Jimmy Saville - did a lot of good work for charity like your other hero too.
He is cheat
he is a lying cheat
he is lying bullying cheat
If you want to admire this then you are free to do so.
He hasn't "won" anything in cycling
have you considered Jimmy Saville
there must be some kind of addendum to Godwin's Law that covers these kind of weak analogies.
I wonder how Phil Liggett is taking all this 😆
A lot of people view Stephen Roche as a hero. I have no doubt he was doped to the eyeballs for a good part of his career.
Yet, last year, at a book signing somewhere in a ****y shop in South London, they were queueing out onto the streets to have their books signed. My mate and I were second in that queue.
Tbh, I wonder myself what I was doing there... 😐
Weeksy, what a load of rubbish.
How many of our 2012 Olympic Gold medallists meet your criteria?
Nice guys finish last.
Yeah, coz Mo Farah, Jessica Ennis, Jason Kenny, Lizzie Armitstead fit the 'Lance profile' don't they??
have you considered Jimmy Saville
By the OPs same argument.
They were all at it.
Even Rod Hull had his hand up a bird.
Has he been stripped of his wins yet?
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Assuming he had any.
Let's see what Lance does over the next 12 months.
Well first he'd have to acknowledge some element of wrongdoing on his part, even this small first step seems to be beyond him at the moment. Perhaps he's saving it for a new book.
People seem to forget when discussing this, what it takes to become a champion. It takes balls, it takes arrogance, it takes the barking of orders, high demands and just being a bloody pain in the arse.Nice guys finish last.
I don't hold his personality against him in the slightest... it's what makes a winner a winner.
This is one of the myths he became the flag bearer for, but its not true, and unfortunately its becoming a self fulfilling prophecy with promising children being taught they have to be ****s to win.
Yeah, coz Mo Farah, Jessica Ennis, Jason Kenny, Lizzie Armitstead fit the 'Lance profile' don't they??
I suppose the honest answer is most us don't know.
I don't think they do, but I don't know any of them, and no doubt 10 years ago I'd have probably put Lance in the same group as them based on similar media coverage.
Although of course it was beyond my control. Apologies for the double post.
CARRY ON !.
😉
[i]the riders that rode clean, the ones that turned up to every race knowing that they were already at a disadvantage before the start line but gave it their all anyway.[/i]
I think this is a good point and one which is sometimes missed. I can only try to imagine what it must have felt like, competing at that level, yet paying the price for refusing to dope, with the results you might otherwise have achieved, had the peloton been clean.
Soul destroying or what !.
I expect martyrdom awaits him.
headfirst - Member
Weeksy, what a load of rubbish.How many of our 2012 Olympic Gold medallists meet your criteria?
Nice guys finish last.
Yeah, coz Mo Farah, Jessica Ennis, Jason Kenny, Lizzie Armitstead fit the 'Lance profile' don't they??
As said, we don't know.. it's often only after they're done we find out their true personality.
Think about the current champions in sports with multiple titles like HAmilton, Schuey, Biaggi, Rossi, even Cavendish, they're self centred egotistical power monsters.... why, because they HAVE to be... you don't make it as a multi-champion without these traits. I'd bet a lot of LAnces haters (in a personality context) were the ones who had an extra slice of bread, or an extra 5 mins in bed... While he was the one being arrogant and ignoring them (because he was busy training).
Am I the only person to have been a fan of LaLa in the early 90s, saddened by his cancer, excited by his return and then totally turned off by the book? Apparently I was a 'hater' according to people I know, but I wasn't - I just didn't like him, or what values he stood for as a person.
Likening Armstrong to Jimmy Saville 😆 the sound of scraping barrels.
How many top sportsmen are vile obnoxious people, Schumacher? Senna? Herlings? they are all humans with human failings.
Mo Farrah might come across as a happy smiley lad but I have no doubt he can be a arse if things arent just right and the way he wnts it. I have heard Ennis say that she can be a moody nightmare when training.
have you considered Jimmy Saville
are you saying he was doping in the 1951 tour of Britain?
There's moody.....and there's organising and leading a fraud.
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He's a thoroughly nasty piece of work and shouldnt be role model to anyone.
Even putting doping and riding aside, a big +1 for this.
lance is nothing compared to Simeoni and Bassons, they are the real heroes
Lance is a boil on cycling that needs to be lanced.
There will always be plenty of enablers and apologists deluded enough to see 'advocacy' and fund raising as somehow making up for moral shortcomings that polluted a sport and ruined a few careers along the way.
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Hero
Lance will still be admired my many, if not for the bike but for the cancer charity. Livestrong will live on and im sure this will be his legacy not EPO.
But as Tyler hamilton stated in his book, the guys not taking EPO were at least 4km per hour slower as an average speed over race distance. And as he quite rightly said this is the difference between the first pack or 4th pack stragglers...or finishing 40 mins behind the leaders on 5hr race..
So what were they supposed to do?
Likening Armstrong to Jimmy Saville the sound of scraping barrels.
I did not I gave an example of someone else - remember he was knighted so one would assume a "hero" for his charitable works- who was also flawed
Unless you wish to argue that saville is not actually tainted and grubby as the OP describes LA.
I dont really see why the point does not stand but you are free to have your own opinions
Clearly Saville is worse than LA and I am not saying what LA did is as bad as being a sex offender - I think it would be scrapping a barrel to even make that inference or claim i did.
[i]So what were they supposed to do?[/i]
Exactly !, which is when you see riders like Millar, who had reached the Pro level, only to be blown away by the EPO brigade.
In his book, he claimed to hold-out and refuse to dope. But if you're hired to race and race to win. Then what are you supposed to do ?.
[i]Clearly Saville is worse than LA and I am not saying what LA did is as bad as being a sex offender [/i]
Yes. I'm, however, slightly distrubed with the JS stuff. I'd ask everyone not to bring him into a debate about LA, but I fear that request will be ignored.
🙁
it's what makes a winner a winner.
Like those 7 tour titles he [s]won[/s] lost
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Anyone who thinks that the cancer charity side of Armstrong is still something to admire should have a read of this:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html?page=all