[Closed] issue with bike and distributor thoughts/advice

bearings are consumables so you need to live with this

Whether it is or is not fit for purpose I dont know but all bearing needs replacing at some point,

Hi mate
If you ride Swinley and Tunnel Hill then you're local to me.
I'm fairly well known on here and by the TH locals too, I'm a bike mechanic. 🙂
If you want me to take a look at your bike, shoot me an email (in profile)

Mr poddy, thanks for that. I may take you up on that.

Junkyard I understand bearings are consumabkes hence why I replaced after winter, however to have to replace 2 more less than 6 months later. Hmmmmm.

why didn't you inspect and/or replace all the bearings whilst doing the pivots could have saved you a whole heap of aggro now 😐

However if I had known I was gping to be replacing bearings every few months I wouldnt of bought it. And if this is the case then my view is the bike isnt fit for purpose, and the distributor has implied this as well.

Bearings, i.e. a consumable part like a chain, cassette or tyre, aren't covered by warranty, and certainly don't have anything to do with a bike being "fit for purpose", which is TBH one of the most overused and misused phrases by people.

Your bike clearly IS fit for purpose or it would have snapped or bent in use. What has happened is that some sacrificial consumables have worn out in UK conditions.

Check the rubber seals on the bearings, get a tube full of them from a bearing supplier for a tenner or so, pack with better grease. Ride till they wear out, put next lot in. Simple.

Fatsimon, purely as I didn't have a bearing for the headset. All pivot bearings were replaced.
Whilst I understand the concept of them being consumables surely less than six months is an issue.

Where would I get said bearings from then?

Oh and they have said I have over ridden an xc bike in places such as swinley so for those of you that know will understand my point. It's far from fort William or any dh track! Plus I haven't got the balls to ride dh

As per others, bearings wear out, some faster than other's.

Marin/Whyte used to have lifetime warranty on bearings, can't think of any other brand that has done so.

Years ago the Fox shock bushings would last a couple of rides then shot, and need replacing, this got so bad that Fox and some of the shops local to the Quantocks (maybe other areas too) got together, collected soil samples. End result the DU bushes got changed to last longer than a few rides.

I have had wheel bearings fail in a few rides from new, 1 replaced at cost of part no labour, another was covered as goodwill by Spesh and shop fitted new ones FOC

Been at DH races with people jet washing and joking that will cost a full bearing replacement the following weekend 🙂

If the bearings do not have a special note of cover then they become a consumable like brake pads.

Many on here joke about Orange single pivots being shite filing cabinets, many on here have Oranges because they suit the ground they ride on and are cheap and easy to service.

Raceface Phil Wood bb bearings where shockingly bad for the price, the Enduro kit i replaced them with have done like 6 years service.

I took some frame/pivot bearings into BSL Bramers (bearing specialist) asked for direct replacement.
£1.50 each from Bramers.
£7 each from LBS.
When given the £7 each limit and explaining the useage of being in a bike and only having about a quarter rotation..... sales chap laughed and said he had lots of mountain bikers come through. With a budget of £7 he could spec a bearing to suit the needs and last a few years.....if i wanted to go to £10 then maybe lifetime of the bike.

Bike industry spec cheap bearings to save production cost and leave some budget for an upgrade rear mech which is more bling and will help sell the bike.

Stand up for your rights!

Bearings ain't bog roll! They should last a reasonable length of time. One year minimum from new is a reasonable time frame.

Sorry andyrm you're talking out of you rear end.

Hth
Marko

Santa Cruz do a lifetime bearing warranty too.

Bit of a footnote.

One shop did a hope hub bearing swap while i waited in about 5 mins, lasted a few months.

Used Pompys in Minehead, Tim the mechanic there popped off the bearing seals, repacked the new bearings with extra grease and banged them in. Took about 20mins, cost an extra £8 strangely bearings lasted a long time, maybe from being put in square or the extra grease.
I try to do what i can myself nowdays and always add extra grease as the the ground around exmoor and the quantocks doesn't play well with bearings 🙂

really depends on what you do with them and how much grime gets in there and whether you power wash them and whether they freeze and whether - many other factors

Its explicit in a consumable part that it wont last. That length will vary on many factors beyond the control of the manufacturer so I think your view is unlikely to have have any legal weight.
Why not fund his claim?
Yes i would be unhappy if i was the OP but such is life

I took some frame/pivot bearings into BSL Bramers (bearing specialist) asked for direct replacement.
£1.50 each from Bramers.
£7 each from LBS.

^^ This. One of my best mates works for the "other" big bearing supplier in the UK. How we laughed one day in an LBS to see DU bushes (that he had sold in a batch of 100 for something like £12+VAT as part of a larger consumables order) in bags with header cards at £9 each on the shelf. Special MTB "Mug Tax" applied to maximum effect!!

I tend to find that being down here in Bristol, with very abrasive gritty mud, I can kill off DU bushes inside 2 months of hard riding, hub bearings 4-5 months dependent on brand (although I'm now using some pimp as hell INA stainless ones which seem near as indestructible), it's just a wear part, especially pivots as they are working a smaller rotation than they are designed for.

Sorry andyrm you're talking out of you rear end.

Can you quantify this statement?

Santa Cruz do a lifetime bearing warranty too.

I imagine they factor in the cost of X number of bearings into the sale price of the frame so they can then give a "free" replacement. Good angle though!

Where can I get cheaper bearings from then?

Cheap bearings, or really high quality bearings for what a LBS will charge for a cheap one 🙂

BSL Bramers, can't beat taking your knackered ones down to a local branch and explaining the end use. Very helpful.

Or Bearings direct, my most likely source of next purchase.

I imagine they factor in the cost of X number of bearings into the sale price of the frame so they can then give a "free" replacement.

I work in the bike industry and deal with "warranty" claims on a daily basis for both road and mountain bikes

many distributors will claim "bearings are not covered under warranty" (they state they are open to abuse i.e. customer jet washing bike, using Muc-Off, extreme conditions, etc.)

to take the customers side though, I'd expect (and retail law in the UK) that goods be "fit for purpose" for a reasonable time after purchase

if bearings fail within mere months of purchase, there is perhaps something wrong with the quality of the bearing fitted to the frame, or the type (specification) of the bearing fitted to the frame

some of the bearings fitted to brand new frames are very poor quality (cheap) and graunchy out of the box, with a severe lack of grease when your prise the seals off. how these are expected to last in mountain conditions is beyond belief.

I have seen high-end brands that previously used quality bearings, switch to cheap bearings, to save money on a year's production run:-saving $40 on each bearing set quickly adds to profits when producing 1000's of frames

bearings should last a reasonable amount of time (a season?); of course, assuming that the customer has not jet washed their bike after every ride!

I have also seen this many times on road bikes, where the lower headset bearing has failed after 4-5 months of normal, intended use. in this instance I would normally replaced that bearing FOC as a goodwill measure.

Can you quantify this statement?

Sure can.

By your reasoning a chain that wore out after, say a month would be considered a consumable. Really? I'd say it was 'not fit for purpose'.

I've just had a full refund on a pair of work boots that spilt in less that a year. The supplier claimed they were a 'consumable' part - fair enough if I'd had them for a few years, but less than a year I don't think so.

The problem with your position is where do you stop? Everything is 'consumable' in the end.

Hth
Marko

By your reasoning a chain that wore out after, say a month would be considered a consumable. Really? I'd say it was 'not fit for purpose'.

How much riding in that month, what kind of conditions, was it looked after or abused?

Could wear a chain out in 24 hours at Mountain Mayhem last year! Not fit for purpose? Fed up of hearing that!

How much riding in that month, what kind of conditions, was it looked after or abused?

Exactly - I can easily get a chain to needing replacement in 20 rides if the weather's bad down here in and around Bristol - gritty, grindy mud here is so destructive. So if I got in a busy month's worth of rides for whatever reason, it would be more than reasonable to wear a chain out in a month.

The problem with your position is where do you stop? Everything is 'consumable' in the end

Your view appears to be its impossible to wear out a product inside a year/certain time frame which is just not the case.

Errr . . . No. That was a question. I'm simply saying that a component should last a reasonable length of time, functioning as was intended. If I buy a bike and a bearing fails or the chain snaps as I ride it home is that covered by the warranty?

An example here:

A customer has returned a pair of boots she bought for £20 a week ago. She's worn them twice to go out clubbing and I can tell they've had some hard wear. She says the material is coming away at the front of the boot and she cannot do up the laces properly.

Q: A customer has returned a pair of boots she bought for £20 a week ago. She's worn them twice to go out clubbing and I can tell they've had some hard wear. She says the material is coming away at the front of the boot and she cannot do up the laces properly. She is demanding her money back - but honestly what can she expect for £20? She's already had some wear out of them. Is she entitled to a full refund?

And the answer is?

Now substitute bike for boot and a week for six months. Is the answer still the same?

Or do the full quiz here:

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

The quiz also has the answer to the OP's initial query and why the shop could reject his warranty claim.

Hth
Marko

Apparently I have a brammer me near so will give them a go!

Pivot bikes now offer 3 year bearing warranty, and when a pair of the DW bearings wore out rather quickly Upgrade sorted me out straight away with Enduro max replacements 🙂

Overridden could mean that you've ridden the bike past the point that bearings and bushings should have been replaced, and hence developed play in the mechanism that shouldn't be there and so worn out other parts. I'm a swinley / th local too, and I replace bearings on my fs bikes every 6 months whether they need it or not (if they need it before then of course I do anyway) - because the soil and sand round here are so corrosive to bearings if they get in.

I'll be honest here - yes, I think it's a pity that bearings aren't specc'ed better, but I'm sure as a non-obvious component being specc'ed by a manager in SoCal with no concept of what Peak grit does to bikes it's not seen as that vital. On the other hand - we're riding round on bikes that cost well in excess of a grand, yet can't be bothered to spend a few quid every half year on the consumables to protect the bits that aren't.

Kind of like riding a chain past its limit, and then complaining that the cassette and rings are goosed. Yes, it's because of the chain stretch but it's not the chain's fault is it?

As above, find a local bearing supplier, go in with the specs you need, most bearings can be pulled out quite easily with garage tools or I have some pullers that you can come round and borrow and make it an evenings work.

Cheers jon. I dont mind buying the parts but that often just seems a bit much for me!

Might take you up on your offer.

What bike is it, BTW?

really depends on what you do with them and how much grime gets in there and whether you power wash them and whether they freeze and whether - many other factors
Its explicit in a consumable part that it wont last. That length will vary on many factors beyond the control of the manufacturer so I think your view is unlikely to have have any legal weight.

Bearings ain't bog roll! They should last a reasonable length of time. One year minimum from new is a reasonable time frame.

This /\ complete bollox.

Try reading my post about the boots. What is that telling you?

How did you do with the quiz?

Marko

Mostly that you're a bit of a tube.......

Mostly that you're a bit of a tube.......

I'd add that consumer "rights" law isn't something to be misused to try and bully a retailer/brand etc into doing something above & beyond reasonable expectations for fear of action against them.

To validate that comment, I deal with Trading Standards on a weekly basis - because of the amount of bullshit emails they get about stuff being "not fit for purpose" because they read on some forum, TS spend loads of time investigating pointless and unreasonable claims, rather than doing their proper work, catching things like dodgy booze, illegal tobacco sales etc and genuine, serious breaches.

A bearing that wears out in 6 months is absolutely reasonable, as is a chain that wears in 20 rides. We have unreasonably harsh weather and trail conditions relative to the rest of the world - so we can't expect the same wear rates as anywhere else in the world. It's that simple.

If you use the term "not fit for purpose" to describe what you believe to be premature wear on a bearing, in my opinion you are misguided at best.

It's silly to say a bearing should last for X amount of time because there are too many variables in terms of amount of use in that time , conditions , cleaning chemicals used and method of cleaning . The bottom line is that riding a full sus MTB throughout the winter is going to cost a fair amount of money in consumables . You can save money by riding a hardtail or learning to do your own maintenance but there are costs involved .I personally think that more bikes are damaged by too much cleaning than are by not enough cleaning.

A bearing that wears out in 6 months is absolutely reasonable

No its not reasonable at all, if the wheel bearing in your car went in six months you would be fuming

and before you say not comparing apples ,yes i am a bearing which runs in completely shitty conditions year after year, the only difference being the actual load capacity and the penny pinching which you can get away with to some dgree with a bigger capacity bearing ,and there in lies the problem a lot of these so called designers of said bikes have **** all clue about actually speccing a bearing for its purpose

If bike owners were happy to have heavier wheel bearings, we'd have longer life. But good luck selling a hub that weighs 100g more than its competitors.

No its not reasonable at all, if the wheel bearing in your car went in six months you would be fuming

If it was in my car which does 6k/yr I'd be concerned, but definitely not "fuming". I don't do fuming, or angry, or ranty internet posts or anything like that. Total waste of emotion. People need to get a grip of their emotions a bit more.

But that's an asides - my car does about 6k/yr. My mate has the same car and does about 45k/yr as he is a field sales rep. Same product, same timeframe, different outcomes due to different conditions and usage. Simply incomparable.

I'm simply saying that a component should last a reasonable length of time, functioning as was intended. If I buy a bike and a bearing fails or the chain snaps as I ride it home is that covered by the warranty?

If it was in my car which does 6k/yr I'd be concerned, but definitely not "fuming". I don't do fuming, or angry, or ranty internet posts or anything like that. Total waste of emotion. People need to get a grip of their emotions a bit more.

But that's an asides - my car does about 6k/yr. My mate has the same car and does about 45k/yr as he is a field sales rep. Same product, same timeframe, different outcomes due to different conditions and usage. Simply incomparable.

did his bearing fail at 45k?

This reminds me of the time we sent a blinged up blur xc build out the door on a wednesday only for it to return the following wednesday shagged beyond belief.

Fella was a little taken aback when i said i recognised it from passing him during the strathpuffer and that we would not be warrentying for any of the wear.- was this you 😉

The component has worn out not failed .

did his bearing fail at 45k?

I'm making a hypothetical comparison to illustrate that 2 seemingly similar sets of circumstances can be very different.

Instead of trying to use SOGA or whatever as some kind of black & white thing or worse still, a weapon to try and force an unreasonable course of action, it would be better to be reasonable.

In the OP's case, that "reasonable" course of action is to pop down to the local bearing suppliers and buy (very cheaply) some spare consumable parts and not waste time, effort, emotion and general internet bullshit bandwidth on something like this.

compositepro - Member

A bearing that wears out in 6 months is absolutely reasonable

No its not reasonable at all, if the wheel bearing in your car went in six months you would be fuming

But if the bearings on the crappy pedals that most bikes come with lasted for 6 months I would be both amazed and delighted .

But if the bearings on the crappy pedals that most bikes come with lasted for 6 months I would be both amazed and delighted .

IM not dissagreeing on that at all iirc when I ran a shop pedals were pretty much swapped to avoid customers coming back with raging anger issues