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My new bike (Santa Cruz 5010 - awesome bike) has come setup tubeless. This is a first for me. I usually carry a big camelback full of spares that I never use, and without the need to carry a pump or tube I'm thinking of just ditching the bag on local 2hr rides. Is that wise? Do tubeless tyres still get punctures that need fixing?
Yes.
Yes, that is wise? Or yes they still get punctures?
Been riding tubeless for a year or so and have not had a puncture (Using sealant). Found them much more reliable than tubes.
Yes they puncture. Put a hole in the side of mine a week or so ago that wouldn't seal.
Weldite tubeless repair kit fixed it.
After I'd walked back to the car and driven to the shop and bought one.
Had my first tubeless fail today due to sidewall failure - tyres were installed in 2013 and today was the first time I've broken the tyre bead from the rim. Worst problem was removing the embedded thorns from the tyre before fitting the inner tube. Apart from fewer punctures, lower rolling resistance and weight plus improved grip there's no real benefit to tubeless.
I still carry a tube, pump and a tubeless repair kit.
I've had to use the Weldtite kit once in a couple of years, but I've seen plenty of mates (well, at least 3) have to resort to sticking a tube in when they've torn a sidewall or got a big hole in the tread.
Always carry a tube, repair kit & pump. Also make sure you ca get the tubeless valve stem out of the rim, as in make sure you can get the little locknut off the stem.
I know because Torridon Mountain rescue got involved with my episode, which was very very embarrassing.
Im tempting fate now but i went tubeless a few years ago on 4 of my bikes and since then in many thousands of miles I have had two punctures that I have known about. All the rest have self sealed. The first was when I was running UST Tyres and rims with no sealant. The second was when I hadn't realised the sealant had dried up. I don't carry anything on local rides anymore. None of my mates do either really. We take the approach that if something happens we will all walk back together. Its bound to happen to all of us at some point so what goes around comes around. I can't stand riding with my camelbak unless I absolutely have to.
Hmm, tubeless tyres don't sound exactly bombproof. I was hoping everyone was going to report decades of use without a single puncture. I get less than one puncture a year with tubes, so the major benefit of tubeless isn't sounding quite as good as I first hoped.
They do get punctures but if you have a decent setup, they're rare. Inevitably, if you do one ride a year without a pump, that's when you'll get a puncture but for local XC rides I don't worry about it. Depends on your riding too of course- If I'm going somewhere jaggy I'll always carry a pump and tube, locally I don't bother.
IME it's categorically more reliable than tubes, thinking about it of the flats I've had since i went mostly tubeless, practically all of them were on teh few rides where I had a tube in.
Hmm, tubeless tyres don't sound exactly bombproof. I was hoping everyone was going to report decades of use without a single puncture. I get less than one puncture a year with tubes, so the major benefit of tubeless isn't sounding quite as good as I first hoped.
You obviously don't ride anywhere with serious thorns then.
Another anecdote - 5 riders for an all day ride, 4 tubeless 1 on tubes - tube guy gets 5 punctures, the rest zero.
How about one puncture since 2004, fixed with a "string" type plug on Helvellyn with only a small loss of sealant. Prior to that locally in East Anglia would puncture several times a ride if the farmers had been cutting hedgerows.
With use all tyres become thinner so punctures become more likely over time. You can't just put tubeless tyres on and forget about them, they do need a bit of TLC but this is more likely to be done in the relative comfort of your garage, etc. than out on the trail.
I've not had a puncture in two and a half years and over 6000Km of riding. There have been times when I've thought " That's got to have punctured" but nothing's happened. Would only go back to tubes in an emergency. Still carry a tube (strapped to bike) as on many of my rides, walking back might take some time.
Sod it. Advice here seems 50/50, so I'm going to just take a punt. The local ride is always within easy walking distance of a road for my 'team car' to pick me up. But if these tyres end up puncturing then I will find it hard not to abandon the whole tubeless idea. I'm also reading that I'm supposed to top up the sealant every month and occasionally clear out the encrusted crap from inside the tyre. I'm fearing I'm about to spend more time maintaining these tyres than I ever did fixing punctures.
Never had a puncture with tubeless since 2004 that necessitated fitting a tube but i have ripped the sidewall on a tyre, And as for topping up the sealant every month?, yeah right...I just inject new sealant every few months.
I do have a habit of going through a pre-ride check on my bike before heading out and that includes tyre pressures/checking for damage.
It's wise to have a tube and pump for anything you wouldn't want to be left walking on, but the coolkids just tape these to their saddles...
Tubeless is about tyre performance improvements more than it is puncture resistance, that's just a side benefit really. Do remember the sealant dries out. Once it has (3-6 months is normal) so long as the bead isn't disturbed, you can keep riding, but punctures won't seal. You can add more sealant by removing the valve core without unmounting the tyre if you wish. When the sealant is still liquid if you hold the wheel close to your ear and shake you should hear it quietly slosh. Also worth knowing that most tubeless setups lose air slowly over a period of weeks or months. This isn't necessarily something wrong, just slightly porous carcass.
If you do puncture, it doesn't seal quite instantly, although it'll be much quicker if the wheel is rotating. You might lose enough air that you wish for something to put a bit back in. 🙂 CO2 can make sealant go off quicker so isn't the best plan although it is quick and easyish to carry.
Depends
Do be aware also that the 'crusted crap' inside is what is making your tyre more airtight. If you do remove anything from inside, it's balls of solid sealant you want, not the stuff caking the tyre carcass.
Monthly is ridiculous overkill though. Most people I know wouldn't bother until they remember guiltily they last did it a year ago or something...
Monthly is ridiculous overkill though. Most people I know wouldn't bother until they remember guiltily they last did it a year ago or something...
Yup.
Running two bikes tubeless - one is road/CX and other is 26' hardtail, both with Stan's; just remember to add more sealant every 6 months - the Stan's syringe is perfect for this.
No problems at all but I carry tubes - just in case - and a Weldtite 'tubeless repair kit' £6 from Evans which I haven't used but reviews are all 5*.
If you have a major sidewall problem then you're screwed whether you ride with tubes or tubeless.
Other than that, tubeless all the way.
Hope that helps.......
Tubeless is massively more reliable here ( lots of thorns and flints). I carry a panaracer tubeless repair kit for when the tubeless fails (twice a year with 1-2 rides/week) and an inner tube and standard repair kit for the occasional thoughtless t**ts i ride with who don't use tubeless. If we go out 'full stans' the team suffers about one tubeless repair moments every 25 rides. If we go out with a couple of tube riders we pretty much get 1-2 punctures per ride. It's that good.
Tubeless is massively more reliable here ( lots of thorns and flints). I carry a panaracer tubeless repair kit for when the tubeless fails (twice a year with 1-2 rides/week) and an inner tube and standard repair kit for the occasional thoughtless t**ts i ride with who don't use tubeless. If we go out 'full stans' the team suffers about one tubeless repair moments every 25 rides. If we go out with a couple of tube riders we pretty much get 1-2 punctures per ride. It's that good.
One puncture in 5 years of tubeless.
Tubeless is more reliable providing you don't run conti apex/protection tyres. 3 sidewalls have failed in 4 months. Time to switch brands and get back to a reliable set-up.
2 punctures last 6 years all fixed by stans, stopped carrying tube couple years back. I run maxxis tyres there pretty reliable. I top up stans regularly
Onzadog, I've also ripped my second conti sidewall in a. Few months this afternoon, I've never managed to do this to another tyre so am fast going off conti. Other than a small hole in an ardent that was fixed with a tubeless worm, I've never had to put a tube into a tubeless tyre in three years of riding. Definitely better than tubes for me.
Tubless is ace, the only issue I've experienced is when running pressures too low and burping, but that was early on in the learning curve, min 32 psi (don't believe the "I run 18-23 psi in my setup" guys you will die......probally 🙂 )
Oh and no super thin side walls, found all maxxis tyres to be fine.
You'll puncture slightly less, like for like, than with tubes.
Take a pump and tube or tubes depending on length of ride. Remember you might not be able to get a tubeless system to seal up on the trail, so if you puncture twice (in a way that won't seal) patches etc. may not be any use (for 2hr rides I would take 1 tube and a pump).
I'm converted. Fit and forget pretty much. Ghetto tubeless but with a tyre designed for ghetto tubeless by schwalbe. Wouldn't want to seat the bead without a good pump, but I carry co2 just in case. Yet to have to find out if it works.
Been on them for 14 year, man and boy, jumpers for goalposts.* Certainly had punctures, but they've nearly all been of the massive variety. Can only recall 1 or 2 in all that time that were just everyday small holes.
1 puncture a year on tubes is pretty extreme if you're getting out and riding anything good. You're either extremely smooth, laying down the right lines, or an extreme bimbler.
*Recall mavic's initial UST set-up recommended no sealant. Took a month or two to figure out that this was not a good idea.
I went fully tubeless about 4 years ago, never looked back. The only fails have been things that would have destroy tube too, had countless that would have been flat on tubes moments. I now have 1 tube, 2x Co2 and a mini pump in the bag, co2 will reseat if possible and the pump if all else fails with a tube. No real hassle. I redo sealant when I swap a tyre.
At this point like nearly everyone else in the thread I can't see a benefit to running tubes.
Hmm, tubeless tyres don't sound exactly bombproof
No air filled thin rubber tyre is going to be 100% puncture proof. The overwhelming view every time someone asks this question is that you get far less punctures with tubeless than tubes.
When I ran tubes I would get at least 1 puncture a month, 3 or 4 on a bad month. With tubeless I have had 1 puncture in 18 months (and even that one blew back up again, it just could't seal quickly enough before too much air had come out and I didn't carry a pump so had to walk home to inflate it.)
I now just carry a CO2 pump in jersey pocket in case that happens again.
OP: If you want [b]no[/b] punctures then the only options are:
a) don't ride the bike
b) fit solid tyres
Neither are really a valid option so what you are left with is choosing between two systems as to which is [b]less prone[/b] to punctures. The answer is tubeless.
As others have said the only things that do stop you are big rips in the sidewall that would be ride stoppers whichever system you use. I suppose if you live in Arizona then checking the sealant monthly would be a good idea but in the UK I only tend to check when I remember or before a long trip, it's hardly onerous: leave bike to stand for a while, pick up wheel, hold close to ear and shake. If there's a sloshing sound then fine, otherwise remove valve core, add sealant, replace core and reinflate. As I said before, this can be done in the comfort of your own home not on a cold wind and rain swept moor whilst your mates freeze.
The only occasionally frustrating thing with tubeless is getting the tyres to seat on the rim, usually they are no problem but just occasionally one tyre will refuse to seat. Same rim, same model of tyre but it won't play ball. While such occurrences do stick in the mind they are no more common than nicking an inner tube with a tyre lever
If you are out on a group ride then only one of you needs to be taking a pump and you can tape a spare inner tube to the bike frame as back-up, which just leaves you needing space for a couple of tyre levers. I suppose they'll be the straws breaking the camel's back (sorry, awful pun) sat next to a couple of litres (kilos) of water.
Tubeless isn't just about punctures it's mainly about improved riding and handling due to the lower pressures that are used. You can't run at these pressures with tubes as you'll get pinch flats and/or damaged rims. Since you've got the tyres set up tubeless why not just get out and ride the bike?
Contrary to Onzadog's experience my Conti protection tyres have been fine for 3000 miles tubeless.
I do wonder why I seem to puncture less than the rest of you posting on this thread (with tubes). I am a mincer compared to many, but amongst the 4 people I regularly ride with I am the fastest. I don't do a lot of MTB miles these days, but I do 2700 km a year in a combination of mostly road and MTB. The last puncture I had was in July 2015 on the road bike.
The advantage of tubeless is not getting rid of tube or pump. Even if you get a puncture which seals up quickly, chances are you'll still want to stick some air in to top up, and no-one is immune to sidewall slashes that won't seal. Once a tubeless tyre deflates enough to pop off the rim, you won't be popping it back on with a mini-pump, so it's tube time.
The advantage is running lower pressures, increasing grip and speed, and a slight reduction in weight.
I don't do a lot of MTB miles these days, but I do 2700 km a year in a combination of mostly road and MTB. The last puncture I had was in July 2015 on the road bike.
Maybe you are lucky, maybe you are running thick tubes and tyres at high pressures. I don't know.
I've been unlucky with Tubeless i think, i've only had it twice, first time i had no end of issues. 2nd time i got new bike, within 400m it had lost 50% of pressure. We pumped it again and you could see a leak at the sidewall/tyre/rim and ended up binning it and fitting a tube. However that one is destined short term to be swapped about quite a bit anyway betwen XC rubber and AM rubber, so made sense to have it tubed. The front seems OK and will stay tubeless as i've picked up a 2nd wheel for that.
Tubeless is
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Distance 8,960.5 km
Time 435h 30m
Elev Gain 111,649 m
no punctures this year so far <waves cock> ;-D
seriously, I second the comment about quality of ride with tubeless. At lower pressures its great
Nothing is infallible, tubeless is (IME) more reliable than tubes, however it can of course, fail and should that happen, as with a tubed tyre, you should have a contingency.
So I tape a spare tube or two to my frame, and a mini-pump, as well as CO2 inflator, it's easy enough to ditch the camelbak full of junk if you want to OP. You might have to compromise on the bikes aesthetics a bit, but it beats walking home...
I do wonder why I seem to puncture less than the rest of you posting on this thread (with tubes).
Not really about how you ride it is where you ride. Come and ride where I live where it is a lot of stony gravel with sharp pieces of flint and your first puncture within a year will happen pretty soon.
When I used to ride a track bike off road I used tough tyres and even those punctured (RibMo, Armadillo and even one puncture with a Marathon Plus).
I've made my 5th bike tubeless this morning. I can't imagine not going down that route. My 30ml round trip commute over the Ridgeway and a total of 5000 mile in 2015 had zero punctures on the tubeless bike and 4 flats on the non tubeless bike. I like the way the bike rides with low pressures.