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Have we done CRC/Wi...
 

Have we done CRC/Wiggle loosing money yet?

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[#12949379]

-£14.5m last year
-£97m this year

That is a metric shed load of money - on £252m of income...

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/wiggle-chain-reaction-cycles-records-pound97m-loss-as-brexit-and-pandemic-fallout-hits


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:41 am
SYZYGY reacted
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They've been slipping behind other retailers for years now. Poor availability of stock, bad website design, so-so prices, limited range of bike brands.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:50 am
dessie72 and Simon reacted
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I wonder how much is interest on the loan used to buy them.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:55 am
Simon and willard reacted
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That is a metric shed load of money – on £252m of income…

Post Brexit, we should really be using British imperial units.

So, that's an imperial skip load of money.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:57 am
down_and_across, leegee, letmetalktomark and 6 people reacted
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It's down to all those free Haribos


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:58 am
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£97m! Wow. Whoever designed the current website needs a bullet to the head... Was on there the other day looking for a drivetrain for mini-DBW #00002's new build. Cassettes, chains, mechs etc all in the same place. Cool. Shifters in a totally different place! Sort the stock and often leaves the top row as it was and sorts everything beneath it. Select the "In Stock" tick box and your choices immediately drop to very little (and what there is is usually bright pink in XXXXXXXXL etc).
Despite all that its my go-to as even with the lack of stock etc they still seem to have LOADS more options than the likes of Merlin (Merlin seemed to advertise more stuff when they had a double page spread in MBUK back in the day where they listed everything they sold!).


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 10:59 am
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They’ve been slipping behind other retailers for years now. Poor availability of stock, bad website design, so-so prices, limited range of bike brands.

I haven't used them for years for all of the above reasons.

They used to be the one stop shop for almost anything you wanted and were almost guaranteed to be cheaper than anywhere else. Who remembers the free next day delivery? That was amazing.

I might only browse there now if I want a 9 year old road jersey in XXXL. It's like a dumping ground for stuff no one wants.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:00 am
robertajobb, leffeboy, matt_outandabout and 4 people reacted
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Bit of a worry, if CRC/Wiggle go pop, do they take Vitus, Nukeproof, Ragley, etc with them?


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:01 am
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I'm pretty certain I've given them £97m over the last year or so.....


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:04 am
fasthaggis, funkmasterp, Kryton57 and 6 people reacted
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A mate of mine described them as the TJ Hughes equivalent for cycling and I haven't been able to stop thinking about that


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:13 am
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The website design is absolutely terrible. It used to be so good for doing specific searches, e.g I want to look specifically aty 2.4 Wide Trail DHRs not 2.3 or 2.5s...)but they have removed all that functionality.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:18 am
salad_dodger, rt60, felltop and 8 people reacted
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Have to say I've not used them for ages - delivery was really flaky - pay for next day and get it next week.

Now use Sigma or Merlin.

but they have removed all that functionality

I'm guessing it will all come back if they keep going.

At least I assume that's the plan as the current one is just rubbish...


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:19 am
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They are a far cry from years ago when they were cheap and very fast to get stuff delivered


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:22 am
Del and Simon reacted
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bad website design, so-so prices

In a nutshell, especially the recent website redesigns. Used to spend a ton with them both when they were the go-to for best prices but now they're not that competitive.

A mate of mine described them as the TJ Hughes equivalent for cycling

Great analogy.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:23 am
kelvin reacted
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I have no idea what TJ Hughes is...


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:29 am
walleater, Ogg, silvine and 12 people reacted
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Is it that they aren't competitive or just that everyone else has caught up? The redesign really didn't help, I hope whoever headed that project up got their P45 swiftly afterwards.

I've used them twice in the past 4 years and even then I've spent barely £80 over those two transactions. I feel the same way about them as I do Amazon, I'd rather spend my money locally with real people.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:33 am
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There still in a far better position than most in there industry

Expect to see many a big name go belly up over the next 12 months sadly

There owners have enough fire power to ride this out


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:33 am
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Poor availability of stock, bad website design, so-so prices, limited range of bike brands.

This really, I recently built a frame up, and didn't buy one single thing from them. Didn't have anything that I needed or wanted. Bought from Tweeks, Sigma, Merlin, Cyclestore, all over. Couple of years ago, I would've got pretty much everything from them


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:35 am
bikesandboots, Del, fruitbat and 2 people reacted
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Over the past year, I'd guess I've bought from everywhere except Wiggle/CRC.  Merlin, SJS, Tredz Saddleback and many much smaller retailers.  Wiggle never seem to have enough stock of the right items to make the strange pricing/postage numbers work, so I end up going elsewhere.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:36 am
nickc reacted
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Bit of a worry, if CRC/Wiggle go pop, do they take Vitus, Nukeproof, Ragley, etc with them?

I think the link into Hotlines is different enough now that those brands won’t be affected. Happy to be shown otherwise though


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:36 am
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Merlin has been my default for years. The search facility on CRC/Wiggle seems to be like some kind of randomiser/chaos generator. Its perversely quite impressive how they've managed to get it so wrong


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:39 am
prettygreenparrot, tomd, matt_outandabout and 2 people reacted
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Tried to find a specific tyre last night. Gave up and bought from someone else on eBay that I found in seconds. The only thing keeping CRC/Wiggle alive right now is the UK customer base being cut off from their far better run and stocked competition in Germany and elsewhere (I suspect).


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:41 am
salad_dodger, Ogg and Del reacted
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Are they actually making a loss or are they declaring a loss for tax purposes thats the important question. I agree that they aren’t as good as they used to be and the website is very frustrating especially when you select in stock only and it still bring us loa£ of out of stock items


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:41 am
tall_martin reacted
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The problem for all these online stores is that they’re competing with drop-shippers, and due to the vagaries of international postage, it’s often cheaper to post direct from the factory to the customer than it is to ship via a warehouse, no matter how much you buy in bulk.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:42 am
jamj1974 reacted
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It baffles me why Wiggle/CRC still exist as separate websites, why haven't they dropped one name completely or  been rebranded into one website?


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:43 am
Houns and J-R reacted
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The website is a complete mess - the descriptions for the items rarely match the images and the questions/answers seem to be for a whole raft of different variants, so you have no clarity on what you're buying.  If they sorted that, made sure they had a good stock of small parts at reasonable prices, I'd guess a lot of business might return.

But, lets face it, there are simply fewer people buying bike stuff at the moment and that's only going to get worse next year as the interest rates really start to bite.  Finance will be more expensive and people will have MUCH less disposable income and MTB sales and parts in particular will suffer.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:46 am
kelvin reacted
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Not sure where the bad pricing perspectives comes from. For me crc/wiggle often have the best pricing and wide range of stock. If you get Wiggle + (used to be £10 a year) that's unlimited next day DPD deliveries even on weekends, there's no other shop that compete there. Most shops are small and can take quite a few days to dispatch in my experience.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:46 am
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It does make me wonder how could who ever signed off the new web site structure be comfortable with their decision.

It is shoddy beyond belief and imho really didn't need the new design in any way.

Merlin and Sigma are my first calls now.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:49 am
kelvin reacted
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The only thing keeping CRC/Wiggle alive right now is the UK customer base being cut off from their far better run and stocked competition in Germany and elsewhere (I suspect).

Interesting point.

They mention losing trade from Europe post-Brexit, but would they have gained an equal or greater amount from UK customers who CBF working out how to buy from Germany any more?

Maybe not actually?

I still buy a fair bit from them, partly because they've had so many heavy discounts this year. Which may not be unconnected to this story.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:52 am
 DT78
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Werent they bought by VCs?

And agree website is absolute shite.  Missing basic ecomm functionality


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:54 am
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I still buy a fair bit from them, partly because they’ve had so many heavy discounts this year. Which may not be unconnected to this story.

Yep. Still one of my go-to shops.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:54 am
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Are they actually making a loss or are they declaring a loss for tax purposes thats the important question.

They seem to have made sure its a real loss by the website redesign (I use design in its loosest context)
It's almost like the design brief was to alienate as many loyal customers as possible whilst making it indecipherable for the new ones.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:55 am
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I logged on to their website a few weeks ago for the first time in years to buy stuff for a mates bike and I had to double check it wasn’t a scam website as it viewed so piss-poor, wtf are they playing at with the design?, it worked and looked perfectly fine years ago?, needless to say I went elsewhere for a drivetrain


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 11:58 am
kelvin reacted
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Werent they bought by VCs?

Private equity, which is slightly different.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:00 pm
 Andy
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The new website accessibility is terrible. So many basic sort functions have gone makes it really difficult to find anything. Sort by discount is the biggest one for me. The in stock button doesn't seem to match other search criteria selected.

Their stock item maintenance has become terrible.  They seem to have multiple pages for the same item which is confusing and also the pictures/description often don't match the item sent out so has to be returned.

Some things seem to sell out and re-appear on sale. I guess this is when they re-plan and release parts for full bikes into component sales. Its very confusing though and creates frustration and indifference like Planet X.

Shame though, as their customer service is still really good.  I get that its a difficult time due to brexit and new standards/models being released but the first two things are easy enough to fix.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:06 pm
dirkpitt74 and kelvin reacted
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Losing.  Losing money.  Although this reply probably belongs in the "things that make you cross" thread.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:09 pm
garethjw, prettygreenparrot, bearGrease and 3 people reacted
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If you get Wiggle + (used to be £10 a year) that’s unlimited next day DPD deliveries even on weekends

My experience was they never actually managed to deliver next day, so just stopped using them YMMV.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:12 pm
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Website is a joke now - takes ages to find anything specific - and sometimes it's not even in the right section.

I generally use them (Wiggle+) for the next day delivery, prices are all over the place lately though.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:12 pm
 Del
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They mention losing trade from Europe post-Brexit

Thought CRC were northern Ireland? This would put them in a position to deal both with the rest of the UK and Europe?

Previous points raised and I think they price gouge. Nukeproof longs have been priced as low as 35 quid and as high as 80 or 90 for example. Seeing that sort of thing just puts me off. How do I know the thing I'm buying now won't be half the price tomorrow, or was half the price yesterday? I don't begrudge anyone making a living but this makes me feel like there's a fair chance in6 being ripped off.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:18 pm
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I went on a massive rant about them losing their sort and filter features the other day - those were the best things about CRC so I'm glad I'm not alone in my frustrations!

My biggest issue is when they show something on sale for £5-£500 and the only option that "was" £5 has been out of stock for years.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:20 pm
ctk reacted
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Thought CRC were northern Ireland?

I think their warehouse is mainland based now. I want to say it's in the Midlands, but I might be imagining it.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:24 pm
robertajobb reacted
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I think I probably spend more at Merlin these days but it's probably marginal. Not that I dare look to find out.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:24 pm
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How do I know the thing I’m buying now won’t be half the price tomorrow, or was half the price yesterday?

I've actually had that with them before - bought a set of forks and by the time they arrived the price of the website had dropped by £150. I got in touch with the customer support and said I'm going to return these and buy them again at £150, want to make it easier and just refund me £150. The answer was no, so I had to do it the hard way.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:25 pm
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Agree with all the other comments on the website, using google seems to be the best way to find a specific product. Their pricing generally seems competitive, but no longer the go site for components.

The whole enterprise seems to be unfocused. CRC is MTB biased, but still has the same huge random clearance stock that wiggle has. Wiggle is trying to be more generally outdoors, fitness and road, but misses the focus of Alpkit.

The inhouse brands, Vitus, Nukeproof, DHB, Föhn all seem good value and well thought out and to me it seems strange that they don't focus more on these instead of stocking alongside brands such as Orro.


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:26 pm
 Rod
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You can see the accounts at Companies House https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07862446/filing-history

The big loss makes good headlines, but includes £36m costs relating to the sale, £25m interest (relating mainly to the pre-sale debt when they were owned by private equity), £15m FX losses, £14.5m depreciation and amortisation (of which £10.5m related to goodwill so that's just an accounting thing).  Actual trading loss was £5.8m (vs profit of £34.2m in 2021).  Still not great, but less apocalyptic...

UK revenue fell from £231m to £156m, whereas rest of Europe fell from £53m to £21m (rest of world held steady).

I still use them fairly regularly (along with Merlin, Tweeks and a few others).  I definitely won't use Sigma Sports any more after a horrendous warranty experience (I had to circumvent Sigma's warranty guy and go direct to SRAM to get it sorted).  I thought it might have been a one-off but a clubmate had the same thing (with the same guy) when the chainstay on his Trek MTB failed (the Trek shop in Wilsmlow came to his rescue and sorted it out).  The warranty guy is patronising and doesn't listen to anything so it was extremely frustrating...


 
Posted : 01/09/2023 12:26 pm
doris5000, nickc, J-R and 1 people reacted
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