[Closed] Gearbox drive trains, whatever next.

No but it looks to have zero chance of survival for one of my failed "bunny hop over log/rock" skills

Zerode started off making this alfine based DH frame:

[img] [/img]

Looks like they're chasing the #enduro market now then, with a pinion box.
Not that bothered by it TBH, shame...

Lovely, had a wee spin at ard Rock, nice to ride too.

It's a pinion p18 gear box, been around a while now and loads of people are doing frames with them.

http://co-motion.com/bikes/divide-pinion

[img] [/img]

Before the zerode DH bike, GT did a similar nexus based one, the IT1, but it wasn't anywhere near as well executed. Brilliant and really shit in different ways, that was in 05.

I like the look of the new one, probably not a good idea for me to demo one...

I would say the original Zerode DH bike had more in common with a Lahar M9:

[img] [/img]

Both high pivot, with a epicyclic hub (Rohloff on the Lahar) buried in the frame, both used a Rocker at the BB to lever the shock pulled by the chainstay. Unfortunately Lahar was a business disaster...

Would love to build an expedition fatbike with a Pinion as it puts the extra weight in the right place - I met a Swedish guy with one in Finland, awesome piece of kit.

I'm finishing off a Pinion touring bike build today.

18 Bikes in Hope have a hardtail pinion bike, it is one of their custom builds. I took it out for a demo and I liked it. It does carry some extra weight but it is in the best possible place and the advantage of no derailleur to get gunged up with mud or damaged is very appealing. I think there is a gearbox in my future 🙂

That Zerode could be great.

But like all of them, it's let down by the hilariously sh*t Pinion grip shift. One day they might actually listen to all the complaints & try to make it work with a normal shifter.

Well I never, I like the idea of it, along ramble/cx set up sounds wonderful. To ride, how is the shifting feel? Does it react rapidly to change?

You have to back off the power a little to change gear, though that's not really any different to a conventional derailleur tbh, but I liked the idea of being able to select any gear whilst stationary.

I got on fine with the shifting but then I don't mind gripshift. My only small gripe is that the shift between gears isn't entirely consistent as there are certain ratios that are slightly harder to shift between. I think you need some time using the pinion before you start to take advantage of the ability to shift as many gears as you like without pedaling. I have spent so many years using derailleurs that I do certain things without thinking. If I'd spent as many years using a pinion gearbox and jumped on a derailleur bike I think I'd have far more trouble adjusting

that lahar is lovely. such a great bike - such a disaster of a company...

i'd love a gearbox - i quite like gripshift so i'm ok with that. i appreciate its not for everyone though.

I always thought the Zerode prototype was more interesting with its high pivot

[img] [/img]

Sure I remember a pinion geared bike being made for Steve Peat some years back, possibly one of those mentioned above. Looks like the idea has come round again.

Anyone know the uk price yet on that new Zerode?
Will be interesting to see how the price compares to the equivalent Nicolai.

UK RRP
frame + shock + Pinion drivetrain*
Zerode Taniwha [Fox Factory Float X] £4,500

Upgrade to a BOS Kirk 2 3-Way £100
Upgrade to a FOX Factory Float X2 £200

Complete bike w/ Pike RCT3 160mm
Zerode Taniwha [FOX Factory Float X] £5,500

Ebikes discussion end

What?

Read the topic title - what next

Answer

Ebikes, In the first 6 months of any year more will probably be sold than gearbox bikes.

The E bike has a gearbox.

I'd like to think the development of ebikes pushes gearbox development for normal bikes but its not happening yet.

ebike development would probably be in a different direction, fewer ratios and less concern about weight. Pinion have just announced a lighter mag gearbox but no news on a new shifter

jambalaya - Member

No but it looks to have zero chance of survival for one of my failed "bunny hop over log/rock" skills

Assuming it's the same as a good old Roox Roller Coaster, it'll be spring loaded so it can be knocked out of the way

I have done 30km on a Pinion Gerboxed Geometron, so in internet terms I'm clearly massively qualified to give my opinions...

1) I didn't hate the gripshift as much as I thought I would.
2) The lower unsprung mass makes the suspension super plush and active.
3) You have to back off more than a little to change gear, this was the biggest issue I had with it. It would be fine for whinch and plummet rides but on contoury frequent shifty type of riding, it was a bit of a pain to say the least.

It has to be spring loaded at the jockey wheels Id have thought otherwise bottoming out the rear end would put un-Godly stresses on things

If it wasn't sprung then how would it take up chain growth?

A mate had a Nicolai Nucleon ST, spent a week riding it in Whistler when I was there in 2007, so f'in heavy (52lbs) yet so balanced in the air as all of the weight was in the middle.

It was a pretty thing: 😆

[img] [/img]

Got a lot of random people come up asking for a photo with it too?!

Been waiting for something with a gearbox and belt drive for a few years now, surprised it's now only starting to take off tbh.

The whole gearbox thing is very interesting. The idea of maintenance free gears sounds great to me and I hate the grinding grating noise you get riding in winter muck with a traditional gears, albeit 1x has made things a lot better. Potentially going down the Nicolai route at the moment and the idea of a gearbox is very tempting but it's a big cost hurdle when I would typically spec XT level gears.

Hmmm. The more I see of gearbox bikes, whether in the hub or the frame I think I should convert my Inbred to running an Alfine rear hub & stick a rigid fork on it for 'maintenance free' cycling. Although I suspect the Alfine wouldn't be that 'maintenance free' at all.....

If you don't think you need 18 gears have a look at the 9 speed, I'm under the impression that its quite a but cheaper.

My 8 speed Alfine gets serviced at a shop 1 ever 2 years, I could quite easily leave it longer.

thepodge - Member

My 8 speed Alfine gets serviced at a shop 1 ever 2 years

Interesting. Is that used on road or off road??

Mainly off road, the reason I got it was because I didn't want to do any cleaning or maintenence

I like the look of tis, the whole thing looks fun to me

[img] [/img]

Here's my old IT1, a svelte 48lbs...

[img] [/img]

I grew to hate my alfine- rubber gears, slowed down rolling downhill, changed to oil bath which leaked onto the rotor etc.

I used my Alfine offroad commuting (so dunk I mud twice a day and never cleaned) for a year and while it was still clean in the geary-bits, the main hub bearing bearings which everything runs on went all rusty and developed play. So now it has play in the sprocket carrier so the chain jumps off and it sounds like a steamroller rumbling down the road. Lots more drag now too. Still, it lasted better than the conventional drivetrain I had before, not sure it worked out value wise though.

ebike development would probably be in a different direction, fewer ratios and less concern about weight. Pinion have just announced a lighter mag gearbox but no news on a new shifter

I can see your point but the majority of gearboxes appear to be targeted towards commuter type bikes if you look at the press releases from euro bike, Sure there's the odd full springer and a handful of people who swoon over them but honestly in 20 years it's gone nowhere,

Now given the choice of pedal or be swiftly varied along by motor for the less money 4.5k for a frame or en entire E bike?

Problem with gearboxes is that derailleur gears are really bloody good nowadays, and they will always be more efficient. There's no good reason for introducing drag into a bike's drivetrain, inless you can come up with a massive weight or performance benefit, and gearboxes currently do the opposite.

honourablegeorge, I agree, the weight in the middle being sprung makes sense. But, in removing the cassette etc. you still have to replace it with the SS drive components for the gearbox anyhow. Given modern traditional mechs/cassettes are light, I wonder what the net weight loss is of the unsprung rear wheel.

& regards the argument they make about cutting back on forces pushing the rear wheels backwards and affecting the shock performance, get a hardtail! *ducks and runs*

Still looks fun though!

Problem with gearboxes is that derailleur gears are really bloody good nowadays

Problem with gearboxes is that derailleur gears are really bloody good nowadays, and they will always be more efficient.

A derailleur system, when it's brand new and lubricated in perfect conditions, will be about 1% more efficient than a Rohloff. Difference is, the Rohloff will still be as efficient when it's covered in mud, the derailleur's efficiency goes down quite a bit with wear and muck.

Derailleur efficiency is also an average - it caries a lot across the cassette. the 11t cog wastes about 3x as much energy as the 34t.

I would love to see an independent test of a Rohloff, my experience was it was efficient under full load pedalling hard, but had extra drag compared to normal setup when just pedalling lightly. It also felt like pedalling through treacle all the time but that's just feel not efficiency.