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I feel slightly in a different world here, I get on really well with my Garmin 520.
RideWithGPS Connect IQ app makes it really easy to transfer routes onto the 520, i can also do the same with workouts from Traning Peaks using their Connect IQ app. On road navigation is great (using RideWithGPS courses, Garmin Connect courses are crap)
Transfers between 4 different bikes with different sensors without a problem. Uploads rides to Garmin Connect flawlessly (and then onto Strava and Training Peaks). Battery life really good, and no issues with resuming routes when I stop - even if the device has powered off.
after increasing levels of frustration with my 510 (performance OK, i just can't read the navigation screens because I'm old) I've pressed buy on a Bolt.
So now I'll hopefully be following LED's instead. Can you have it set up to use the LED's for eg: HR monitoring but then they switch to navigation as well when needed?
I have an Edge 500 and have been longing for the time when some companies come along to offer decent competition to Garmin.
The 500 I think is one of the better ones. Heard all kinds of negative reviews on the newer models, from battery life to rain drops setting off the touch screens... Despite some minor quirks it does everything I want, and mostly of all, in over 5 years, it's been completely reliable and never once died on me.
I'm tempted by Wahoo, as the Garmin software is a bit clunky, but I'd be interested to know how they stand up to real world conditions in all weathers over a period of years? For me, a GPS needs to be dependable before anything else.
Not a 520, but I've had a 1000 for a few years and was pondering the updated version of it until last night when it very nearly ate one of my rides - obviously, one that I really cared about as I was pushing the pace and wanted to see how fast I'd gone. The ride showed the track, but had zero distances in the summary. It wouldn't sync and nor would Garmin Connect accept the fit file manually. In the end, Strava accepted the upload manually and whatever was wrong didn't seem to bother them as much as Garmin's own software. First time this has happened to me in a few years of ownership, but it's made me think about alternatives.
One of the things I use quite often is pre-planned trail following, especially away from roads. How do people find this on the Element / Bolt's monochrome screen? Personally, I've never been that impressed with the Garmin's screen, so am starting from a position of neutrality here...
@butcher - Yes you can. When navigating the LED's signal when a turning is coming up, or you're off course etc. In between those the LEDS will display other things such as Power / HR / Speed
Can you have it set up to use the LED’s for eg: HR monitoring but then they switch to navigation as well when needed?
this is what I do. The LEDs automatically go for navigation at turns if you're following a route. Can be a pain on a steep hill coming up to a junction when your heartrate suddenly disappears off the elemnt. You think you're dead.
how they stand up to real world conditions in all weathers over a period of years?
I've had my elemnt 18 months now. Used it in all weathers - heavy rain, continual incessant drizzle (for 5 hours), snow, -5c temps. Three hour night cycles. Off road, on road. It's never had an issue. And will still have uploaded to strava by the time I've walked up the drive. It's been excellent.
How do people find this on the Element / Bolt’s monochrome screen?
Fine for me. Just means you can see it in bright sunlight (unlike my BiL's 520 last Sunday). And if backlit, you can see it in darkness.
The route following is very good, to the extent I've carried it when walking in the lakes. Coupled with a suunto watch (with route), you know you'll never come off the path.
OK, I'm definitely tempted then. Do they do dynamic routing? e.g. "take me from A to B, without taking me down too many motorways"
I have a Garmin Edge 25 that I use on my commuter, but I haven't been able to record rides for a few days due to the thing not picking up signal.
As an alternative, I bought a Wahoo Element Bolt that I use on my road bike, and... Flippin' heck, it's amazing.
I am a guy who has zero patience with technology, and find that there is almost nothing I need to do with the Wahoo. As a few have said, above, it just does what it says it will do, with no fuss and bother.
I have made routes on both ridewithgps and strava, and both transfer over immediately. Honestly, it is the best addition I have made to my cycling life.
Do they do dynamic routing? e.g. “take me from A to B, without taking me down too many motorways”
No, there's no routing on the device. For turn directions it relies on cue points having been included in the file you download. The mapping is essentially just a visual background to the route. If you want to route on the fly, you need to use your phone. That relies on having a data signal and on having an app that does what you want: the Wahoo app has extremely basic routing; Komoot was ok when I tested it but having recently tried using it again for walking I'm finding it a dog to use, I think it's changed.
My opinion of the Wahoo in a nutshell is that it's mostly brilliant, but while many people will find its navigation abilities perfectly adequate, some aspects of those abilities suck. Chief of these is that if you need to go off-course (which I find is often) the Wahoo is really unhelpful. See my review linked on page 1 for more detail.
The navigation is better than it was, but as mentioned it needs a phone.
A brewpub? A burger? An epic destination? Where ever you want to go, ELEMNT can take you there! Just open the ELEMNT companion app at any point in your ride and start typing either the address or name of your destination. The companion app will then generate a cycling optimized route and send it to your ELEMNT, complete with turn-by-turn pop ups. Put your phone away and ride! Now ELEMNT can literally take you anywhere!
whats the hack for a tether? I kinda refuse to pay 14 quid for a piece of pissing string, though I know ill regret it if I dont!
You still need the bit of string. I had a spare from my Garmin, but ebay probably has them for buttons. You take the battery cover off (there's a wee screw. Loop the tether around the screw, behind the rubber cover, and screw back down. I've lost computers before (under a moving car tyre) due to no tether. The ELEMNT needs this bodge, the BOLT has one already.
My opinion of the Wahoo in a nutshell is that it’s mostly brilliant, but while many people will find its navigation abilities perfectly adequate, some aspects of those abilities suck. Chief of these is that if you need to go off-course (which I find is often) the Wahoo is really unhelpful. See my review linked on page 1 for more detail.
Agreed. Though in fairness, the similarly priced 520 is even poorer. The higher end Garmins are better in that regard, just, but lose out on other features. They aren't as good as incar satnav that's for sure.
Well, the 520 was never meant to have navigation as a priority: the 5xx line has always been performance oriented and the 8xx/10xx have been the navigation tools. The 520 Plus (which will square up to the Elemnt on price) appears to acquire that level of navigation functionality, though.
On the Wahoo front, when I had mine the app could do routing, but what it couldn't do was allow you to drag the route via anything other than its choice. Fine for hot-footing it to the nearest petrol station for emergency chocolate milk but useless for making a wholesale change to your day's plans: that's where Komoot just about filled the gap. I suspect that hasn't changed but I'd be happy to be wrong.
Just tried setting a basic route on my wahoo via the app, and it took the most direct cycle route, for me this was over a river lock and was exactly the route I take to go the same way. You can't edit the route or add stops but if you just wanted to get from A to B it would do the job. If you wanted a proper custom route then ridebygps or similar allows you to do this.
As for everything else, it just... Works. Strava had been uploaded before I walk in the door, it's far more accurate than Strava on my phone too. Strava rides recorded on my phone make me look like I was drunk, a straight road ends up being 200m longer...
If you wanted a proper custom route then ridebygps or similar allows you to do this.
On a computer, sure. Try it on a phone 🙂
Then try it when you don't have a data signal…
I had a garmin edge 25 which worked perfectly BUT having to put up with garmin software was too much for me. I couldnt route with garmin software because several streets in my area through it in to a hissyfit and instead routed you across farmers fields. Many other software issues had me selling it for the Bolt. The bolt has so far for the last 6 months been faultless and the software has been trouble free and a doddle to use.
On a computer, sure. Try it on a phone
Then try it when you don’t have a data signal…
Sorry - yeah I meant on a PC - though to be honest trying to make a custom route with a proper dedicated GPS sat nav unit isn't exactly on a phone either, a cycling computer with navigation as a small part of it's features is never going to be easier.
Creating a custom route for a long ride is something you do at home, not whilst on the trail, IMO.
Yeah, agreed, and to be honest Garmin's routing has always been a bit dodgy. Though I hope the new popularity routing goes a long way to improving that.
But for those times when you need it, at least you can make a detour and then be navigated back onto the your planned route at the touch of a button, even when you're out of phone coverage.
And will still have uploaded to strava by the time I’ve walked up the drive.
It doesn't rely on Strava running on your phone though? I mean in the sense that it's actively running during the entire ride and rinsing your battery. If it connects briefly at the end of the ride, that's fine, but too much reliance on phone apps maintaining constant connections would be a deal breaker for me.
Speaking of which though, are there any messaging capabilities on the Wahoos. Receiving texts would be useful. I know the Garmins do this... however, since this is the age of IoT and no one uses SMS any more, I'm really interested in something capable of communicating with WhatsApp, Messenger, etc. I get the impression such a thing doesn't exist yet, but it would be very cool if it did.
It doesn’t rely on Strava running on your phone though? I mean in the sense that it’s actively running during the entire ride and rinsing your battery. If it connects briefly at the end of the ride, that’s fine, but too much reliance on phone apps maintaining constant connections would be a deal breaker for me.
Speaking of which though, are there any messaging capabilities on the Wahoos. Receiving texts would be useful. I know the Garmins do this… however, since this is the age of IoT and no one uses SMS any more, I’m really interested in something capable of communicating with WhatsApp, Messenger, etc. I get the impression such a thing doesn’t exist yet, but it would be very cool if it did.
Nope, it doesn't ever connect to your phone for strava uploads. You set up your home/work wifi and when you complete a ride, the second it connects to wifi it uploads directly to strava. Unless you're changing settings, or need to navigate somewhere you never need to connect to your phone. Unless, of course...
You want to receive texts/phone call notifications. Then it needs to be connected to your phone constantly during the ride. Also if you want to share a live tracking link that also needs a constant phone connection. It also doesn't do whapsapp messages etc, just SMS, but then it's not a smar****ch so that functionality is basic.
Even syncing routes from ridewithgps etc doesn't need a phone connection, it does this over wifi.
As an alternative, I bought a Wahoo Element Bolt that I use on my road bike, and… Flippin’ heck, it’s amazing.
Except we kept getting lost when you tried to navigate with it the other day..
The main problem with that device seems to be that you cannot pan around the map to view ahead on the route. Is that the case? That would be a major pain for me, as I don't always want to stick exactly to what I"ve planned, and I like knowing where I am rather than simply following a line.
Does the Bolt definitely just do SMS? I ask because I've set mine up tonight (sub 24hr delivery!) and it says Notifications, which would normally mean anything that goes through the Android Notification system. No big deal for me, but it would be useful if they expanded this to allow you to bring any notifications through from the Android API rather than the App, then you could block apps and contacts on the phone while connected. I'd basically like to get whatsapps from the Wife, but nothing else. It would be good to have music control too, but again no biggy.
I have a bit of a niche question now mine is setup and working; my Trek Madone has an ANT+ combined cadence and speed sensor built into the frame, it connects perfectly with the Wahoo and is outputting Cadence, but I have no magnet on the wheel as I've always used GPS speed. There's nowhere in the settings to turn off the speed sensor though. Will it take the GPS speed if there's nothing coming through from the speed sensor or do I need to fit a magnet?
Overall, it looks like a great bit of kit, was so easy to setup (once I'd copied all the fields I wanted into a spreadsheet and arranged them!). The layout isn't perfecton the display, it would be great if once you've zoomed it out to 9 you could then scroll down to more metrics, would save me having a second page for stuff I'll rarely use. And more control over the single metric on the top row, there are lots of metrics where it would make more sense to put two metrics on the top row and when you zoom from 2 metrics in to 1 often it'll just remove the second metric without making the first larger, needs a bit of refinement.
Impressed that it automatically copied across my Strava routes and starred segments, but quick question on the Segment display; can I set it up to compare my times with my personal bests rather than the whole leaderboard?
First ride tomorrow, got a hilly route around Weardale planned.
Oh, despite having a million different metrics to choose from, it doesn't have Sunset and Sunrise times. I found having sunset on my Garmin quite useful when I was riding regularly in the evening as I'd remember from a few days ago what time I needed to be back and whether I'd need lights.
Regarding the above comments on using the phone to upload to Strava, I thought it would use the Bluetooth connection and the phone if it was available rather than waiting to get WiFi? Surely if I go away for a week it's not going to wait for me to get home before uploading. You can control that by turning bluetooth off on your phone, but I'm sure it will try to use the phone connection if you let it.
It is right that you can't pan the map, I can see that would be a problem for some people, though I don't think it would be a particular issue for me.
Regarding the above comments on using the phone to upload to Strava, I thought it would use the Bluetooth connection and the phone if it was available rather than waiting to get WiFi? Surely if I go away for a week it’s not going to wait for me to get home before uploading. You can control that by turning bluetooth off on your phone, but I’m sure it will try to use the phone connection if you let it.
Just tested this and yes - if there's no wifi it'll use the phone's data connection once it's connected via bluetooth, either immediately after stopping the ride if the phone is connected whilst riding, or as soon as you connect bluetooth.
I'm 99% sure it's just SMS, all other notifications don't show - in the app under Alerts it's just messages and phone calls.
Got my Bolt too, just been setting up.
Couple of minor issues..... connecting to RWGPS, it has uploaded my routes but I also have a club account where we load the club run routes, and I can't upload from there to the Bolt, I had to copy the route into My Routes on the RWGPS site first. Anyone know how to export directly from the club routes page? The help pages on Wahoo talk about pinning routes but i don't seem to have that option?
And second - the settings screen says there's an update available but it doesn't seem to actually update despite getting the screen saying it is - the version keeps coming back as the same as it was?
I believe it updates when you turn it off.
have tried off and on-ing a few times, but not so far. Will leave overnight and see.
What version are other people running, for info?
Mine is on firmware WB09-1929 which according to here is the latest version.
https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000410550-ELEMNT-BOLT-Firmware-Updates
Anyone tried the trail forks app on the Garmin yet? Interested if you can just fire it up. See where a trail is, see where you are on the map and just navigate there by the map (i.e. no route as such, just map read.
Ive been sold on the Wahoo bit this could be useful .
Mine is on firmware WB09-1929 which according to here is the latest version.
Mines on WB09-1337 which looks like the original, and on my phone App it creates a Pop up saying Version WB42-1929 is available.
There isn't a WB42-1929 on that list but on the Elemnt update equivalent there is a WF42-1929, but that's for the Elemnt, not the Bolt.
https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Firmware-Updates
I'm pretty sure it knows it's a Bolt, not an Elemnt but why's it trying to load an update that doesn't belong to it? And how do I get it out of that mindset.
Less impressed than i was now 😉
Can I upload custom workouts to the Bolt?
Use these a lot on my 520, usually either through Connect or Training Peaks.
Read something about needing a Today’s Plan subscription but I really don’t want to pay another £10 a month or whatever just to upload my own workout to my device.
jesus christ.
Been off and on most of the day trying to get connection to a wireless network. Have now reset my router using specific channels and the like and seem to have a connection that holds and doesn't drop and the app is now 'Updating' - the free space on the settings screen is dropping (about 14MB so far) so while I am several updates overdue, beginning to wonder if it should take this long........
Distinctly unimpressed with the help pages / documentation, most of the fixes I've tried have been googled........
Except we kept getting lost when you tried to navigate with it the other day..
The device can not be blamed for user error. 😉
Seriously, though, it wasn't the mapping; if I overshot a small lane, it was obvious in retrospect that I had just read it incorrectly.
and..........
computer says no. Still on the same version.
The device can not be blamed for user error. 😉
Seriously, though, it wasn’t the mapping; if I overshot a small lane, it was obvious in retrospect that I had just read it incorrectly.
I disagree: the device can be blamed for what you think is user error. For several reasons, Wahoo's navigation is simply not as good at giving guidance at turns and through junctions as Garmin's is, so more errors will result. This is one of its key weaknesses in terms of navigation.
Mines on WB09-1337 which looks like the original, and on my phone App it creates a Pop up saying Version WB42-1929 is available.
There isn’t a WB42-1929 on that list but on the Elemnt update equivalent there is a WF42-1929, but that’s for the Elemnt, not the Bolt.
https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Firmware-Updates
/a>I’m pretty sure it knows it’s a Bolt, not an Elemnt but why’s it trying to load an update that doesn’t belong to it? And how do I get it out of that mindset.
Less impressed than i was now
Have you checked for updates on the device itself? ignore the app, go to system info under the power button menu, then there's a check for updates option. That should get the latest update and install it when you turn it off.
yep, no joy with that either......
Next try is to see if it works on a different wireless network, so will try at the office on Monday.
Factory reset? Other than that, not sure. Mine has 'just worked' out the box. Oh and the battery life is amazing, mine is on 84% with a good 1.5 hours or riding/recording time today.
3rd factory reset done today........
I'm not impressed yet.
That isn't normal, mine updated as soon as I turn it on and hooked it to WiFi, no drama at all. I'd try another network, then send it back for a replacement if that doesn't work.
First ride with mine yesterday, all worked great. There are a few minor changes I'd like to be introduced, eg I'd like to be able to scroll backwards between screens as I have two that I flick between and end up having to cycle through several occasional screens to go from one to the other. It would be good if you could add more fields than the device can display, when you're fully zoomed out it could then scroll downwards.
I could do with a net climbing stat, I tend to start low, head high and drop back down again, so it's useful to know how much free altitude I've got to finish with.
When following a course it knows the height of the climb I'm on, so can I have a countdown for how much climbing is left, or a percentage completed? Let me specify minimum lengths and altitude gains for the climbs then have it automatically switch to my climbing screen for the climbs.
Estimate the time of arrival home based on the distance and profile remaining and my average speed so far. I spent far too much time trying to workout how late I was going to be and whether I should go up to Bollihope or not yesterday.
Programmable priorities would be good, for example when I start a ride I'm more interested in altitude gain, distance, when I'm over the last big climb I want to see distance remaining. I know I can setup a screen for this, I probably will, but it's another one to scroll through!
I added the VAM metric to see what that was like, can't decide how useful it is. Does it correlate well to effort, or is it too dependent on the gradient? I was thinking over time I'd know if I was going over xxxx metres an hour I would probably blow up, but I was pulling about 900m/hr on 8-10% gradients, maybe 1,200m/hr on steeper stuff and the steeper climbs were 2-3,000m/hr for bursts. I already know I can't sustain those speeds on the really steep stuff because I've run out of gears.
The heart rate zones graph was useless based on the zones it calculates from max heart rate. The LEDs stayed on the same one pretty much the whole ride, the graph shows I was in the top zone for 90+% of the ride. The zones need to be modified to narrow the working range. I compared with Strava, which has different zones, that was a more sensible distribution. There's partly an issue here that I'm hideously unfit and 15kg over-weight, my heart rate is staying elevated when I'm not working hard while my body gets used to riding, so it should fall and widen the zones over time. I hope.
Secondly on that, never used Sufferscore before, but it was pleasing to see that Strava rated my ride yesterday as "MASSIVE"! Higher scores than any of the whippets that were riding in Weardale yesterday. Again it's because my heart rate is staying high, I was riding quite reserved yesterday because there were lots of climbs. I guess my background means I can happily sit at a high heart rate and ride slowly for 2-3 hours. Hopefully the scores will correlate quite well with how I feel I've ridden, it's neat to have a single metric measure of how hard a ride was.
I bloody hate computers.
I was leading one of my club's road rides today, so despite reservations given the above and knowing I knew the route well enough, I committed to the Bolt. The route I'd planned on RWGPS seemed to upload OK via wireless (which makes the update firmware issue even more bizarre) and was absolutely flawless in its turn by turn notifications. Very impressed with that bit.
I then cursed when it lost one of my sensors - stopped measuring cadence about 3 hours in, which was IIRC one of the glitches in early firmware? But apart from that it behaved pretty well. Agree with the page change in one direction only being a PITA, but some screens don't have a 'spare' button so I'll live with it.
Got back in, it connected to wireless, downloaded the stats to Strava ........ and then informed me it needed a firmware update!!! Which it has now done and applied exactly as others describe above.
Very odd.
So that's just the cadence sensor drop out - which despite my cursing, turns out I've lost the little magnet from the back of the pedal axle, so can't blame the Bolt for that even!
Anyone know a good source for replacement magnets 😉
Ha, glad you got sorted!! 🙂
Tempted. But still no lap on position means it’s a no.
Meanwhile son of Edge 500 is out now, and I’m struggling to see wh not. With the exception of normalised power, it looks like all I need.
An IQ app might add that functionality back
I can retire the 500 to nephew and the 810 to whatever. The 200 is always in my race day spares box. And I like the breadcrumb routing more than the risible 810 maps, which it seems incapable of following my own routes!
Anyone used the 520 plus? Can’t decide between that and the element.