[Closed] Future of UK Gravity Enduro?

If you go unseeded, you don't need to worry as much as you might think about the fast boys- this aggregates itself out naturally, the quickest and keenest people want to be on the stages earlier than the slower people (and if they can't pull that off, well, that's part of the format, it's not all about descending).

Whereas with seeding, an unlucky moment or mechanical in the seeding run could leave Affy immediately behind you anyway, with no option to avoid it. (or, the organisers could stuff it up, I remember someone fuming about elites being sent out first after the woman's field at one event)

So it's not as though either is a perfect answer but only one of them can lead to total chaos on race day, whereas the potential issues with the other are more in control of the riders.

Anyway- so it seems to me, when you've got a complex system that doesn't work reliably then KISS is even better advice than normal.

For timings, ParkRun use some kind of fancy stopwatch whereby everyone shares a start time and then each person through the finish line is clicked in. You're given a barcode when you're clicked through the finish, which denotes your finish position (and thus your finish time) and then you get your personal barcode and position barcode scanned, which ties you to your position and thus your time. Some variant of that would work fine - scan your barcode when you start a stage, scan it when you finish a stage.

That sounds like a more complication version of the dibber setup. For dibbers you press your dibber against a box at the start, the again at the end of each stage. Repeat n times, hand over dibber get an instant print out of your results.

Personally I'd prefer the events to be one day, not two day - finding a whole free weekend, especially enough whole weekends for the entire series, is not logistically easy!

Given the level of riding/trails at the UK rounds (well the Inners round anyway + the Innerliethen MTB Racing series) having practice is a very sensible idea

Whereas with seeding, an unlucky moment or mechanical in the seeding run could leave Affy immediately behind you anyway, with no option to avoid it.

You would hope (and it's pushing it in MTB racing) that common sense would prevail and stick someone like that in a more appropriate starting position (the SDA have always been very good that way)

Future of UK Gravity Enduro?

hopefully: long and succesfull.

hopenotfully: even less accessible for useless mincers like me...

That sounds like a more complication version of the dibber setup. For dibbers you press your dibber against a box at the start, the again at the end of each stage. Repeat n times, hand over dibber get an instant print out of your results.

This sounds like BY FAR the best system to use. I've enjoyed the two Enduro1 races I've done but I've been frustrated by the poor timings and results - even if my times are right, what's the point if others' times aren't? And how hard is it to add up the teams' times? And then a special stage where the points were discarded for some reason... One has a degree of tolerance on the first race, but things should get better, not worse, as the series progresses.

The ParkRun results system works for having thousands of runners, across the country, with dozens of races on every Saturday, where the runners can turn up (or not) at any of those UK wide events. The events are free and all the results are usually up within hours.

Main downsides of the dibbers is that you can have multiple riders arrive at the end of a stage at the same time (or damn fools dib out at the end of the stage then get in the way). And you can get a wee difference in timing just due to how fast you can dib in or out.

Also occasionally people can't find them- I saw one poor sod somehow miss the dibber at a race, then get confused, and fall off his bike... (the Tweedlove enduro had massive yellow boards with start and finish on and the dibber in the middle- very good idea!)

But that's all minor compared to the alternatives...

Hmmmmm. Just saw on the Gravity Enduro (ie Si's series) is planning mandatory full face helmets, and also mandatory helmet wearing at all times including climbs. (so, 2-helmet time probably, like some euro enduro)

So, hopefully they're planning some very challenging courses because if not, they must be nuts.

Could the dibbers not be sensed automatically as they cross the finish line so you're not looking for the post and faffing about trying to slow down etc.? Seems perfectly doable to me.

Dib to start, cross line to finish.

I noticed that too Northwind. Seems a bit OTT. I think if I had to climb Dyfi with my full face I would have passed out shortly after leaving the 1st segment.

That's in effect what the UK Gravity system was supposed to do - it didn't work (well it did, but not reliably).

Yeah, takes you back to the basic problems of the existing noncontact systems, ie, they don't really work.

Hmmmmm. Just saw on the Gravity Enduro (ie Si's series) is planning mandatory full face helmets, and also mandatory helmet wearing at all times including climbs. (so, 2-helmet time probably, like some euro enduro)

That would massively put me off entering. Doing any significant climbing in a full face helmet is just horrible. 😕

In reality I'm not sure they would be able to police the helmet wearing at all times very well.

Depending on whether the UCI (and in turn BC) put enduros into the XC or DH category, full facers might become mandatory at all (sanctioned) enduro events

I'm re-imagining the Tweedlove enduro with mandatory full faces in the timed stages... Climb up Janet's Brae under the clock? My full face is pretty well ventilated, but still, no. And I'd like to say common sense will apply, but this is BC, so what are the odds?

I have very politely expressed dissatisfaction to BC, an organisation that is supposed to speak for cycling but instead speaks down to us. They've not bothered themselves with enduro til now and it's thrived without them, due to the hard work of organisers and the passion of the riders. Their duty is to respect that, not to arrive late and try to take over. If anyone feels similiarly, I'd hope they'll do the same.

having done some of 2011's races.

1)Keep seeding. - Any Cat with low turnout gets reversed.
2)Keep start times but lock them down.
3)Make the transitions challenging.
4)GET A PROPER TIMING SOLUTION
If it needs a full set of laser timings for each stage then thats what it needs
5)Sort out who you want - A mix of trail that rewards fitness, technical ability and stamina.

4) fixes everything

As for BC they seem to be a waste of time in some areas. Look at their facebook/twitter while there is a DH WC going on they are prattling on about commuting etc. If it's not olymipic or TDF who cares.

Mandatory lids is normal for any racing these days.
Mandatory full face is a bit annoying though as said would probably end up with a light xc lid in on the bag.

It seems that the BGES are going to announce their series Woo. And open entry's on Jan 1st. Not knowing the background I'm slightly confused as to why the two organisers already seem to be bitter rivals.

I might do one of each next year just to see how they compare. Some fans seem strangely loyal to UKGES and are badmouthing BGES9, I don't get it.

The 2 guys used to work together and now don't.

Mandatory full face lids would piss me off. There's little to no reason for them as Europe don't have that rule as far as I'm aware?

As for these people asking for an unbelievably tech track, that's not what its about. It's meant to be a mixture of fitness AND skill. Timings between stages this year were a joke, you could have walked between them easily and these need to be tightened up, however there needs to be a robust way of dealing with people who are late, and I suspect there will be a lot of them 🙄

Simple Neil

YOu have a start time and the clock starts then, you are late you can slot in at a 15s interval between other racers.

Did the first 2 last year and it was an utter joke, as you say bike optional for the transitions.

There definitely needs to be a way of making sure riders follow the full course, not taking short cuts on linking stages. I only did Rd 2, so can only comment on that but saw several top riders, including one that finished on the podium taking a big short cut, completely missing a big climb.

YOu have a start time and the clock starts then, you are late you can slot in at a 15s interval between other racers.

Exactly. That was the rule at the Avalanche Enduros that ran in the UK a few years ago, miss your stage start time and the clock starts ticking anyway.
The rules at the UK Gravity Enduros seemed to change from round to round....

There definitely needs to be a way of making sure riders follow the full course, not taking short cuts on linking stages.

At the first one people were encouraged to take whatever route they wanted by the organiser. Which included pushing up the trail people were about to race on.

Some nice order from the start would be good. Nobody seemed to try the idea of a test event to try any of this out before having a go at running a series.

Perhaps the avalanche guys should be invited to come and play.

Perhaps the avalanche guys should be invited to come and play.

Sensible idea surely?

Perhaps the avalanche guys should be invited to come and play.

They have held some races in the UK Kielder and I think Glentress.

YOu have a start time and the clock starts then, you are late you can slot in at a 15s interval between other racers.

So you then up late and get slotted in between two riders that are faster than you? With only a 15s gap behind you, potentially messing up their day too?

This is one of the biggest headaches Steve had, very difficult to safely slot people back in - especially when it's actually only 20s gaps!

Perhaps the avalanche guys should be invited to come and play.

I did the Kielder one a few years ago and I seem to remember there were a few issues. Sounds like possibly not as many as this series.

I think the seeding needs to stay. It works well and adds a nice extra dimension to the race.

It's good to be racing amongst people of roughly the same level and the UK GE races attract some seriously fast riders - who wouldn't want to be held up by the likes of me.

The transitions are about right IMO. Proved by the fact that nobody was racing a DH bike at the rounds I did. Only did Inners and Eastridge this year though.

As Mike said, it's really just the timing. And maybe getting the marshalls better drilled too. Riders had to organise themselves at one stage in Eastridge where one poor guy on his own had lost the plot.

For people missing their slot - wait them until end of their cat where there's a gap of a few mins - then send them down with a 10s penalty or whatever.

Seeding should stay, but if like me you pull a good seeding time out of the bag, only to get someone who's time was blatantly wrong and held me up on every stage, pretty annoying.

For people missing their slot - wait them until end of their cat where there's a gap of a few mins - then send them down with a 10s penalty or whatever.

That's what Steve was doing the last couple of rounds as there was a 3 min gap Btw Cats to enable this, however he didn't actually add any penalty time on, since he's such a nice guy 😆

Also I also agree and disagree with seeding, yes it's sorts out the fast DH riders into order, problem is it doesn't sort them into the correct order on the pedally bits! I caught the rider in front on the various pedally bits at Dyfi and then was held up on the subsequent DH runs in to the finish, since TBH, it was just too fast/dangerous to try and overtake.

i missed my slot on the last stage at dyfi, i was dropped in at the end of the cat with a couple of other guys we were told we get a penalty 20s?* which seemed fair to me!

*but not enirely sure i did??

100mph+ i let a guy overtake on the dh stuff when he shouted to get past me seems only fair

Also I also agree and disagree with seeding, yes it's sorts out the fast DH riders into order, problem is it doesn't sort them into the correct order on the pedally bits!

Sort of goes with the seeding being DH focused - make seeding representative of the whole course easy.

Would go with the idea of not making the event a mini DH

mikewsmith-did you actually race the first stop at Inners? I did and not only did I not encounter anyone pushing up any of the timed descents but I'm not sure exactly where this could have been done. Judging by your comments on this I'd have to assume that you are for some reason anti Steve Parr and almost certainly full of shit

mikewsmith-did you actually race the first stop at Inners? I did and not only did I not encounter anyone pushing up any of the timed descents but I'm not sure exactly where this could have been done. Judging by your comments on this I'd have to assume that you are for some reason anti Steve Parr and almost certainly full of s***

1st race as in last year at Ae Had people pushing up while I was racing Having been told were not checking what route you take. Not anti Steve as much as not impressed with the attitude then. I had heard better things about the series and worse like the short cuts ambiguity Over rules and poor timing systems still.

The format has something to offer hitting the middle ground between xc and dh and I wish it well. However patience will probably expire if the timing goes wrong again. I'm now in oz so can't have another go. I would probably wait until I see what timing was proposed before parting with cash.

Oh and no swearing in here.

Read the comments with some interest, including the 1 "about having my ego massaged" well James, i presume your Mr Coulson? Tally could not do 2012, so I had no partner to run series, thats a nonstarter, needs at least 2 to run the series, Adrian Bradley bravely stepped up to fill Tallys shoes.
The UK Gravity Enduro series is the National series 2013, no one elses, lets just clear that up right now!
We will not be using dibbers, it may be reliable, but its no where near accurate enough for what we are trying to achieve here, oh and we will have a new timing company on site for 2013 😉
Full face helmets, as in Europe, will be compulsary on stages, waiting to clarify with BC about XC lids on transitions, but expect this will be the case.
This is for your safety, not to increase helmet sales etc... i've been watching you guys race all year and seen you getting faster and faster, when you hit 40mph + on stages, its time to have full face lids.
Title sponsor/sponsors will be announced very shortly as will the PR guy's.
There are numerous new rules being imposed on us by BC affiliating Enduro as a discipline, we will keep you updated on these.
Hope this helps, but if you need further info please get in touch via website of facebook page
Steve Parr

Shame about the helmet rule. Surely it should be rider choice?
I only did the CyB round, but I felt quite happy in a XC lid.

Think I'll say the same thing as I told Si- if you're going to make us wear full face helmets, you'd better give us tracks that make me feel like I should be wearing a full face helmet 😉

Really would appreciate if you would push BC over the transition stage helmet rule, full face is at least justifiable but mandatory helmets on the transitions is another thing entirely. If the descents are risky enough that we should be wearing fullfacers then they're risky enough that attaching extra crap to our spines isn't that sharp. At very best it's hassle without benefit.

Oh God BC (bumbling cockmeisters) are involved. That's that buggered then :o(
Also means having a BC license (£50 for silver) or paying an extra £10 for a day one.On top of whatever levy they impose which will have to be passed on the competitor. It's not exactly cheap to begin with.

Will a BC licence be required though? I just entered an SDA race via BC that didn't require a licence. The extra BC booking fee was IIRC 60p.

I was thinking of giving an Enduro a go at some point next year..

The 'hitting 40+ mph' bit has convinced me otherwise. Are there any events out there for bimblers...?

Full face helmets, as in Europe, will be compulsary on stages, waiting to clarify with BC about XC lids on transitions, but expect this will be the case.

How about no helmets on transitions? CBA carrying around two helmets really. Does anyone really need a helmet to slowly grind up a fire road?

The 'hitting 40+ mph' bit has convinced me otherwise. Are there any events out there for bimblers...?

Enduro1? It's the southern series and a bit XC. I considered it but they were holding a round a cesars camp and described it as a hill, the first time I rode there someone had to point out to me that it was the hill after we'd rode over it, and I hate climbing!

How about no helmets on transitions? CBA carrying around two helmets really. Does anyone really need a helmet to slowly grind up a fire road?

Seems a bit harsh but I guess the insurance says you need one at all times whilst raceing, and it's easier for the insurers to say that than to come out and inspect every corner on the fire road for loose gravel. Roadies have to wear them after all, and they're not even on fire road.

A bit like loads of people have to wear hard hats for work, even when walking down the road between plots (which is odd as I can walk to work through the site, but to get from the office to anywhere I have to wear a lid?).

I was thinking of giving an Enduro a go at some point next year..

The 'hitting 40+ mph' bit has convinced me otherwise. Are there any events out there for bimblers...?

The Exmoor Enduro I've just done this weekend. Steve's series seems to be heading the way of being a bit more "serious business", which is awesome for Enduro as a sport, but there seem to be more and more little independent events popping up that're more about racing your mates and having a laugh.

oh and we will have a new timing company on site for 2013

Could I be so bold as to suggest a tester event before the season proper starts?

Oh. Calling dibbers inaccurate is a bit off I reckon, they're open to rider error but that's a level playing field. The system itself is an awful lot better than the alternatives we've seen so far.

Don't want to be saying "told you so" in a year. I quite like saying "told you so" once but 3 years in a row would get dull

The full face thing is a bit of a pita but after riding the last round even though i was in no danger of hitting 40mph i chose to wear a full face. Stages 3 and 4 and that guys crash in qualifying that had everyone saying 'oooofff' when he went down convinced me.

and it certainly seems to work ok from what ive seen of the european ones...[img] [/img]

as for timing....personally i dont see why it causes so much of a problem, when ive ridden the Rough Ride weve used that system (admittedly not multistage) and it worked just fine

and yeah the enduro1 series is definately more accessible for a first time event, as was the frostbite 40 both of which were really good but a bit less gnarly

Think I'll say the same thing as I told Si- if you're going to make us wear full face helmets, you'd better give us tracks that make me feel like I should be wearing a full face helmet

Really would appreciate if you would push BC...

Is that the 'royal we'?
Wind yer neck in, you don't even ride these ffs,!!!!!! ([url= http://http://www.rootsandrain.com/rider8281/andrew-cunningham/results/ ]Internet know-it-all[/url])

Ooh, a stalker... Things didn't really go to plan for me this year, and I managed to miss the only round I could have attended as I was too slow, it sold out- genius that I am. But I've raced (and marshalled, and built trails for) other enduro races so I know the script, and this stuff isn't just going to affect Steve's series.

But thanks for rubbing it in 😉