[Closed] Even amateurs cheating now, it's all got a bit OTT

Not yet.

Chatted with a few guys after the Tour of Flanders sportive a couple of years ago, proper salt of the earth, beer drinking Belgian cycling fans, who said that it was common knowledge that people juiced up to do the ToF sportive because there was no drug testing.

It's not even a race!

I'd probably have a go at some EPO if I could get hold of it. It sounds good.

Well, some people take their sportives quite seriously.

Druid of this here Parish considers them races. Has he been tested I wonder?

I don't get it really. I can understand pros who do as they need to perform to keep their jobs, but if your doing it for fun it's just a bit sad.

Makes me wonder now how may Strava times are drug assisted? 😐

MAkes me wonder how many Strava times are internal combustion engine assisted.

Does it happen here? In road racing, yes.
Dan Staite was a non-professional rider caught for EPO use a couple of years ago:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roa20100729-Statement--Rider-Suspended-for-Doping-0
http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/dan-staites-epo-positive-27221/
As far as UK sportives go, people seem to be taking these so seriously that I guess it's not impossible that some individuals are using performancing enhancing drugs. I guess that isn't actually cheating or an offence, however, because UK sportives are not races, and are not run within the regulations of any recognised cycling authorities.

The Gran Fondo NY seems to be bit different because it is part of the UCI World Cycling Tour for "amateurs" so it is run under UCI rules (hence the drug testing). One of the UK cycling forums highlighted stuff that was being posted on a US body building forum - Masters cyclists openly discussing juicing up with EPO and goodness knows what else, just to be competitive on their local chain gangs and fish and chipper races. Scary stuff.

Just checked out the Gran Fondo NY entry fee: $195! Crazy stuff.

in europe some of the sportives are like races (in fact they are, as they give out finishing results unlike over here). some of the fastest guys get appearance fees and and semi-pro by all rights. The big ones are used to get spotted for pro contracts - Laurens Ten Dam won the marmotte a few years ago and the top guys on that are grided.

Would an iPod and some ecstasy give an advantage?

I know a moneyed geezer who does no visible training but turns out for the Fred Whitton every year and gets a very creditable time. It crossed my mind that he might be doing something like that!

Not quite Amateurs with $100k in prize money.

There was an (possibly online?) article written by a guy who was taking drugs in order to see what effect they would have on ana average club cyclist riding long distance sportives like Lige-Bastogne-Liege, think he even did one as stoker on a Tandem.

IIRC he found the drugs really hard to come by, no doctor would touch him, including the 'usual suspects'. Think he was doing stuff like injecting testosterone then it was topped up via patches, he was using steroids and EPO too IIRC.

He was quite open about it and pointed out that none of the events entered as part of the experiment had prize money or winners so he wasn't taking something unfairly from another competitor, just doing it to see what the difference was (quite big IIRC).

I don't think it that surprising. Go to pretty much any gym and you will see guys pumped up on various drugs to get bigger muscles, the effects are fairly obvious in that case. I don't think it is a big leap to imagine that some amateur cyclists could see drugs as an easy way of getting faster, personally I would rather spend the money on my bike.

TINAS, I read the same article, it was an interesting read. From what I remember he found EPO gave you the legs to ride a fast 100miles day after day.

Wouldn't it be simpler, cheaper and easier to buy yourself a trophy and get you name engraved on ti?

Here's that article, Outside magazine, a good read if you can get it.

[url= http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html?page=all ]Stuart Stevens, Outside magazine, Drug Test[/url]

doping in amateur ranks is a lot higher than in pro ranks .

when i started mtb in the early 90s in france i used to race with a mid 40s guy with amazing stories . he used to road race in the 70s with a needle in his leg under his shorts . 10 km from the end he would breakaway and inject himself by pushing the needle . he wasnt too sure what was in it but it was effective .

that article is really interesting, i was not surprised that he finished by saying he would continue taking some of the drugs if he could afford it as some of the side benefits, recovery, eyesight etc would be obvious "nice to haves".
well worth a read.

It shouldn't surprise anyone really. Considering how serious/raceface serious some amateurs get at races. Some take it very very seriously don't they? So 'must win' isn't a leap in the slightest.

What a shining example they are to us all, on this Olympic day.

Lets look at it this way. If you were offered a surefire way of taking an illegal supplement that would help you win and it was guaranteed NOT to be detected, would you take it? How many would? I bet the majority of cycling racers would.

Who was it who said "If you're not cheating you're not trying"? Seems to be a fact of life these days - from sports to big business (I'm looking at you Barclays).

Lets look at it this way. If you were offered a surefire way of taking an illegal supplement that would help you win and it was guaranteed NOT to be detected, would you take it? How many would? I bet the majority of cycling racers would.

Some would, many wouldn't, but it comes down to mentality, how many people massage their CVs knowing they won't get caught, how many people drive using mobiles, speed, etc. Some people will cheat in life, some won't.

The question is what do you gain by cheating, and how much does that mean to you.

Just pathetic - what sad lives these people must have, taking drugs to do well in a Sportive???

The question is what do you gain by cheating, and how much does that mean to you.

Therein lies your answer.

Just pathetic - what sad lives these people must have, taking drugs to do well in a Sportive???

There's a fair amount of prestige (within the cycling community, obviously) in doing well in a big Spanish sportive - you'd see your name in the magazines, you'd be the alpha (fe)male in your club, etc. I'm not at all surprised that people do it. I'm guessing it's probably the same in other countries, too.

I'm in two minds as to how "pathetic" it is - on the one hand, why should anyone care what his or her peers think, but at the same time we're social animals, and social status is important to us.

MAkes me wonder how many Strava times are internal combustion engine assisted.

Well the current leader of the [url= http://www.endomondo.com/challenges/3333279 ]Cyclists Of Britain 10mile Distance Challenge on Endomondo[/url] apparently managed 10 miles in 8m:55s

Now I'm not saying he was cheating, but I make that [url= http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10+miles+in+8+minutes+55+seconds ]roughly 67.29mph[/url] 😯

(to be fair, looking at his workout it looks like he had some whacky GPS issue, even a car struggles to cover 1km in less than a second)

Recumbent?
We British used to be respected for fair play over winning at all costs. I hope we bring some of that back in the Olympics.
Winning ugly is still winning, but it's also still ugly.

We British used to be respected for fair play over winning at all costs. I hope we bring some of that back in the Olympics.

Yeah, right - nice rose coloured specs there. The Bodyline series, Simpson dying by the roadside, etc. We're just as bad as the rest of them!

but we feel guilty about it.

Bodyline was in 1932. It was controversial then and it remains controversial now. To me, that says ethics in sport matter to a lot of people. But we should not get hung up on nationalistic grounds, unless we are talking about state sponsored doping programmes such as those used in East Germany. It is these days about personal choice. I understand the desire to be the best and if you're not going to be the best on your own talents or physiology why doping is attractive. But, to my mind it is wrong.

The point of sportives, and any endurance event, is to challenge yourself. Did you conquer that challenge if you had some considerable assistance from outside?

I don't apologise if this sounds sanctimonious. I have no time for cheating.

Bodyline was in 1932. It was controversial then and it remains controversial now.

Definitely, my point was that I don't think the British are particularly respected for fair play, it's more of a self-image thing.

The point of sportives, and any endurance event, is to challenge yourself. Did you conquer that challenge if you had some considerable assistance from outside?

That's your opinion, other people enter them to win. I certainly do my best to beat my mates - not to the point that I'd cheat to do it, but the winning part is as important as the finishing.

Simpson dying by the roadside

Drugs wasn't considered cheating then, was it? In cycling?

And the fact that we consider the bodyline episode something to be ashamed of says a good deal about our collective ideas of fair play, I reckon.

I don't think the British are particularly respected for fair play, it's more of a self-image thing.

Yeah that may well be true, but it's a good self -image to aim for.

mogrim, I think we are agreeing on challenging yourself. There can be multiple challenges within an event; to finish, to beat your mates, to achieve a personal best, not to be last, maybe even to be the first one home (the winner). They certainly bring out the competitive instinct. But if my personal best is slower than someone else's I want to think that it is because they are better than me, not because they cheated.

Yeah that may well be true, but it's a good self -image to aim for.

Definitely!

But if my personal best is slower than someone else's I want to think that it is because they are better than me, not because they cheated.

Not too worried about someone else tbh, as long as I didn't cheat.

In a bizarre coincidence, both the father-in-law and my late dad suffer(ed) from pernicious anaemia, the treatment of which involves EPO injections. Should have raided their medicine supplies...

I suspect that a lot of the older cyclists out there dabble in a bit of low-level doping, mostly because it was part of the culture in their formative cycling years (talking about speed and strong cough medicines and so on).

But injecting EPO seems like a big step up, mostly due to the increased danger - if you don't know what you're doing, there's a really good chance of not waking up one morning after the heart has failed to push overly-thick blood around at night. I can't imagine that it's easy or cheap to get hold of either.

I can't imagine that it's easy or cheap to get hold of either.

Legally it's about £90 a shot (but down to the £7-odd prescription fee on the NHS \o/), my father-in-law's GP and hospital consultant had a heated debate over whose budget it was going to come out of...

Also, keep refrigerated. My mom actually had a shot sitting in her fridge for a bit after my dad died, the chemists couldn't take it back, but she was loathe to throw it away because she knew how expensive it was to the NHS...