Done my first week of ebike commuting so thought I'd have a bit of a brain dump!
The biggest thing is that bloody 15.5mph limit! feels great the first time you ride an ebike but it absolutely unworkable on busy main roads. Forget trying to pedal above it as the bike is that heavy/laggy you'll expend more energy than a normal bike.
I'm 'chipping' mine- don't care that it's illegal, I'm faster on my gravel bike everywhere including most of the climbs and it's downright dangerous not being able to carry speed with traffic
How about big heavy wheels for some flywheel effect?
If you hit someone you'll be taken to the cleaners if they sue. Esp given the post above about knowing it's illegal.
If you don't like the speed it goes at, why not ride a push bike (or ride a moped)?
If you’re “faster on your gravel bike” then why do need electric assist?
Maybe you need to pop it off more gnarly kerbs?
You can't keep up with traffic on a non assisted bike so that's a silly argument. Whether you are doing 15mph or 20mph makes no difference on busy main roads.
This is a thing. I have an ebike for MTB. Commuting would be a pain, as I keep up that kind of speed without any assist, but my commute is only 8 miles. If I was doing 50 miles, the assist might be welcome.
Committed cyclists have the mentality and ability to use up the boost, and try to push on more. Maybe you need to reign in your effort.
It appears sir bought the wrong tool for the job. Commute Ebikes are about getting to work in your normal clothes and not being sweaty at a reasonable speed and flattening hills whilst sitting less head down arse up with a better vision of the world around you. As mentioned above you will be slower that motorised traffic regardless. If you were already faster than the ebike limit what were you hoping to gain?
I commute ten miles each way on an ebike.
I just ride there. No rush. 15.5 is fine.
If you want to go faster than that, why on earth did you buy an ebike?
Was it new information to you that they were limited or something ?
With the op here, I'd consider an e bike for commuting but there's a longish flattish bit on my commute that'd add a fair bit on to the time if I pedalled with the assist or I'd land up at work a sweaty mess anyway
How long is said flatish bit.
Over 10 miles The difference between 15.5mph and 20 is about half of a shower and change of clothes. Or another way --its 8minutes real time
Door to desk over 12 miles I'm much and such the same. Mostly use the e(cargo)bike when I have errands or need to visit clients offices without being a sweaty mess.
Id have bought a moped if my aim was to do it quicker.
I just chill out and have a more relaxed ride in when commuting on ebike. Doesn't matter that much if you get caught by the lights changing, as you've a motor to get you going again.
Chipping sounds good in theory, but good luck if you have to warranty it at any point - the manufacturers are able to detect it, and you'll be up a very expensive creek with no paddle.
Reason I stopped riding my gravel bike and started driving my van daily was because I took on a rescue dog, so 2.5 - 3 hours of dog walking on top of a physical job plus cycle commuting meant I was getting fatigued.
I was hoping an ebike rolling on 35's would be reasonably fast for the flat bits. It isn't by a long way and the speed difference with traffic is marked and a bit disappointing.
I'm looking to change the firmware to US 32kph (20mph)
What bike is it?
Fair point as the wife's rental haibike speeduro was fast without power and above 15.5mph when I rode it. On 32mm slicks with a Bosch motor. Was very light for an ebike though. When you removed the battery it rode like a regular bike.
Our cargo bike doesn't do that if I'm happy to get sweaty it'll do 17 mph with me riding it to work other wise I just let it sit at 15.5 and chill.
One thing to remember is you'll always be slower than traffic even at 20mph. And given the average car minimum speed seems to be 40mph 15.5-20mph won't make a jot of difference to perceived speed differential.
Trek Conduit, rigid flat barred hybrid. Shimano Steps 6000
I've inverted the stem and binned a few spacers to drop the bars a bit but the issue isn't aero - it's just the general laggy/draggy pedal ability of it above 15mph
Bosch mid drive by any chance? They're draggier above the limit due to their small chain ring and internal gearing. If you ride a mid-drive with a normal sized chain ring the drag above the assistance limit is just normal heavy bike drag. Bosch have fixed this in 2020 motors.
*edit* oh Shimano Steps e6000? I'm surprised it feels that bad above the limit then.
Aero isn't going to make much difference when you're trying to push 20kg along.
Either sit at 15mph and get to work nice and refreshed, or tamper with it and risk the implications of this (driving without a licence, insurance etc), as it will be classed as a moped).
It's been converted here many times, a road biased ebike only really gives you an advantage on the climbs, unless you're happy sitting at 15mph.
How did the limit get set at 15mph anyway?
Must have been with primary regard to road bikes, but clearly not with the intention of making ebikes a practical option for utility transport or it would have been 20ish-mph.
Making them slower than normal bikes is quite odd when you think about it.
Making them slower than normal bikes is quite odd when you think about it.
They didn't. People who ride road bikes at 20mph average are outliers to the general populous.
“Aero isn’t going to make much difference when you’re trying to push 20kg along.”
The extra weight of an ebike makes very little difference to rolling resistance on the flat. Downhill it’s marginally beneficial. Uphill it is more of a problem - but as soon as the gradient is steep enough that you couldn’t pedal a normal bike at more than 15.5mph, that’s when the ebike wins.
Cyclists are obsessed with bike weight but it matters far less to speed than they think. It changes feel and perceived speed much more than it changes actual speed.
I generally take the more hilly routes to work because my ebike is quicker like that.
Ribble and orbea road ebikes are 11 - 12kg
Probably because the moped exists - why would anyone go to the trouble of taking a CBT, getting insurance, tax, etc then buying a moped that can do 30mph maximum, when with a little bit of pedalling, an ebike would do 20mph everywhere with no licence, insurance, tax etc.
Also, there's nothing stopping anyone from riding an ebike at 20mph, 25mph, 30mph.
People seem to forget its not a limit, its an assist limit.
I must be a bit dim but I'm sure ebikes don't have a limiter like some cars. You can pedal past 15mph, surely 20mph is easy?
“They didn’t. People who ride road bikes at 20mph average are outliers to the general populous.”
Exactly. I’m commuting on a 150mm full-sus ebike with massive knobbly tyres. I overtake other cyclists all the time and am rarely overtaken (and only on the flat I think...)
Making them slower than normal bikes is quite odd when you think about it.
Hardly anybody rides consistently above 15mph
“I must be a bit dim but I’m sure ebikes don’t have a limiter like some cars. You can pedal past 15mph, surely 20mph is easy?”
When I take the most direct route to work, according to Strava I seem to average 16-17mph and reach over 30mph. And on the way home it’s around 14-15mph and peaking at over 40mph. It’s more downhill on the way in but has one steep climb, hence the numbers.
The extra weight of an ebike makes very little difference to rolling resistance on the flat.
It apparently does to the OP 😉
Forget trying to pedal above it as the bike is that heavy/laggy you’ll expend more energy than a normal bike.
Is probably a combination of the drag above the motors assistant, and the extra weight. I bet on a light 12-13kg ebike it would be much easier to keep up to speed.
Tbh, it sounds like the OP is annoyed that his fancy new ebike hasn't magically made his commute easy.
As for speed, yeah most 'cyclists' won't do much over 15mph on the flat, but anyone with a bit of fitness should be doing more. I've just checked, and on my 9.5kg gravel bike with 47mm tyres (and carrying a 4-5kg rucksack!) I'm sitting at anywhere between 20-30mph on a flat section of my commute. If there's a nice 5-10mph tailwind, sitting 25-30mph doesn't take that much effort.
“It apparently does to the OP 😉”
It’s not the weight, it’s mostly something else. It’s the same with the tyre weight obsession - it’s hysteresis losses that matter, not the weight. A wheel is a flywheel, the mass doesn’t lose energy it just stored and release it.
I’ve just checked, and on my 9.5kg gravel bike with 47mm tyres (and carrying a 4-5kg rucksack!) I’m sitting at anywhere between 20-30mph on a flat section of my commute. If there’s a nice 5-10mph tailwind, sitting 25-30mph doesn’t take that much effort.
Most people on bikes aren't elite level cyclists like yourself.
I regularly get overtaken on the cycle track to work by ebikes, along the section that I normally do about 30km/h, so some eriders can go fast. I'm sure not all are chipped.
Tbh, it sounds like the OP is annoyed that his fancy new ebike hasn’t magically made his commute easy.
I think you're being dismissive here, but it's not an unreasonable expectation is it? That is kind-of the point of them.
The existing limit means they're only good as town bikes or for short commutes that would be fine on a normal bike IMO. Seems there's a big opportunity to get people out of cars for journeys of 20 miles or so with just a little tweak to the rules.
Don’t forget e-bikes are legal on cycle paths. Would you want to be walking on a path while some hero powers past you at 20mph+ on their e-bike?
Normal bikes are also legal on cycle paths and they can easily reach 20mph.
But you have to be an elite level cyclist to be about to do 20mph on the flat on a regular bike 😉
Reffering to the other ebike thread with the pensioners on hired ebikes, I'm not sure I'd want someone lacking basic bike control to be able to do 20mph everywhere, if you've got the fitness to do 20mph on a regular bike you'll likely have a bit of experience on a bike.
And I hate to say, but getting people to switch from cars to bikes for a 20 mile journey will take more than some pedal assistance, even 20mph's worth.
There is nothing stopping people getting an ebike that goes faster than 15.5
So long as it's type approved , insured and mot , you have undertaken a minimum amount of training and wear the correct safety gear .
Your then restricted to the road and places mopeds can go.....no shared use paths (most cycle paths)
But people feel they should have all the above without the training and the safety aspects.
Electric mopeds can be bought for £1500 upwards, need a CBT at £120 every 2 years, tax is £20 a year, then insurance at a few hundred. The only bit of safety kit that is compulsory is a helmet.
Not really any more cost than an ebike, and zero pedalling required.
I was thinking about getting an ebike for my 40mile round trip commute, but doing the maths it's worked out cheaper to just do my CBT and buy a cheap 125cc scooter. I'm going to do the odd few days on my bike, the rest motorised.
The only problem is the cheap moped has got me looking at bigger bikes so I might end up going down yet another 2 wheel rabbit hole/money pit.
"then insurance at a few hundred"
Try knocking your age down. I'm 25 with no CBT, if I got one today insurance is over a grand for a £3k electric scooter. That's the reason I ride an ebike instead.
If insurance truly cost a few hundred, say £300/yr and city centre parking didn't cost £20/day then I'd probably be all over a scooter.
Jeez, don't go for a £3k electric scooter then. That's mental money.
My scooter only cost £550 so I insured it TPO for £120 a year. No real range anxiety either. Ok I'm 36 not 25, but I wouldn't have thought a cheap 125 scooter would be more than double for TP cover for a 25 year old.
Just checked on a "2012 Piaggio Typhoon 125cc" for £800 on ebay. Third Party Only costs £525/yr. If I age up and become 35 it's £293/yr. That's far more reasonable to the point where I'd actually consider it over an ebike. It could probably be cheaper if I had a garage for overnight parking or owned my home so could put in a ground anchor.
So the question then is what does a 28mph ebike have over a scooter or 15mph ebike? I guess they're cheaper overall than a new electric scooter but there are plenty of examples that aren't (looking at you Stromer, Riese and Muller).
chiefgrooveguru
Member
“It apparently does to the OP 😉”It’s not the weight, it’s mostly something else. It’s the same with the tyre weight obsession – it’s hysteresis losses that matter, not the weight. A wheel is a flywheel, the mass doesn’t lose energy it just stored and release it.
Hysteresis loss concerns rolling resistance, NOT acceleration.
Your premise assumes that all energy put into the wheel is recovered as momentum or lost as rolling resistance - it’s not, braking for one will account for lots of loss, especially on a MTB. A light wheel and tyre is faster to accelerate and to maintain speed as less energy is required to keep spinning that mass around/up.
"Your premise assumes that all energy put into the wheel is recovered as momentum or lost as rolling resistance – it’s not, braking for one will account for lots of loss, especially on a MTB. A light wheel and tyre is faster to accelerate and to maintain speed as less energy is required to keep spinning that mass around/up."
A lighter wheel and tyre is faster to accelerate - but the difference is marginal when you have a motor to help out, an ebike accelerates very fast if you have strong legs. Once up to speed the wheel mass is immaterial until you use the brakes. But once you've braked the motor gets you most of the way up to speed again.
Going back to this: "braking for one will account for lots of loss, especially on a MTB"
Braking for one, for sure. So what is two? Or three?
