[Closed] Frame crack - ebay dispute advice

Looks like a scratch? Odd place to crack.

I can clearly feel a crack in the laquer.

From that pic, that's all I think it is, to be fair. 🙂

Looks like a scratch to me, rather than a crack.

T-cut will take it out. Use clear nail varnish to fill if needed.

Mt carbon Anthem has them from use. Nowt to worry about

doesn't look like a crack. hard to tell from a photo however.

get a second opinion (in person) if you are unsure.

X-ray to be sure 😉

I'm pretty sure it's some kind of crack in that it doesn't clean off and I can feel it with my finger nail, I guess I'm just curious as to whether it warrants an ebay dispute or whether it's just the kind of wear and tear to expect on a 12 month old carbon frame?

If only I had portable x-ray equipment to hand 🙄

As slowpace says.
T-Cut should clean it up + reveal the truth - does look like a strange place for a crack - but stranger things etc.

Fair enough... I'll give it a go and see what it looks like. Thanks.

if it is cracked, good luck getting it resolved. I bought a kona dr dew (in mint condition, supposedly) turned up with two cracks in the weld around the head tube and a stuffed front mech. ebay did NOTHING! and the guy who sold it me dissapeard and even sold his phone, so when i eventually got through it was someone who had just bought the phone from free ads. I just have to comfort myself that Karma will make the seller die alone of syphilis!

I doubt it is a crak in the frame - more a crack in the paint no?

It does look like a scratch, but if it is a crack in the paint it could be indicative of where the tube has been buckled/stressed even if only slightly.

It's hard to see but it looks like it is on the top tube, just infront of the top of the seat tube, i.e. infront of the seat collar. If that is where it is, then it could well be a result of running too much post out and putting a greater load on the top tube/seat tube juncture.

Wait to hear from the seller and see what they say but I'd be wary of letting it go.

its unliely to be cracked there, pleanty of scratches and chips on my frame that are far worse. but get a second opinion in person.

Personally I wouldn't have given that a second look. Just looks like a scratch to the lacquer to me. You should see the lacquer on my carbon seatpost...well, you can't really as there is barely any left 😀

Scratch.

V speculative there GT, any crack would be central, any buckling would be visible...IMO 😛

Cynic-al in user name contravention scandal!

You're probably right Cynic, on reflection.

I see little reason to think that is a crack. It's shape, and position doesn't really make sense.

I do know that some carbon frames can exhibit cracks in the lacquer due to the paint/lacquer layer having a different stiffness to the carbon layer and the way that carbon frames' stiffness is tailored for specific regions. I have seen this on a friends Carbon Rush, although this is more of a 'crazing' effect rather than an idividual line.

However, I would still be tempted to get it checked out if you want to be 100% certain. If you decided to keep the frame, and wanted to monitor it, just mark the ends with a permanent marker.

Or send it back if you'd rather not risk it.

Seller is being quite helpful, so I'm not going to have to rely on syphilis! Says he doesn't think it's a crack so didn't mention it. I'm going to clean it up and see what it looks like, in all likelihood it will turn out to be superficial.

TBH if it was me I probably wouldn't have even noticed it and I'm sure you would scratch it worse with just one proper off.

This carbon stuff is stronger than people think it is.

YOU WILL DIE IF YOU RIDE THAT BIKE WITH A DEATH-BRINGING CRACK LIKE THAT

I think it is a scratch from the pic.
Get a magnifying glass and have a close look at area.
Can you see fibres? No = scratch.
if yes, are the fibres cut, frayed or damaged? if yes a very deep sctach or crack.
x ray or ultra sound be the best way to know for sure. maybe find a local NDT company if you really need to know.

ChrisS - I wouldn't worry about it too much. I discovered what appeared to be a crack in one of my Zaskar Carbons.

I rang a company called Carbon Frame Repairs (01530 451664) and they told me that, 99% of the time, "cracks" appear because the carbon flexes (naturally), and the laquer/paint does not. This is especially true with frames that have aluminium lugs at the end of the carbon tubes, and people will quite often notice a hairline, dead straight crack in the paint, and think it's a crack in the frame itself. The guy I spoke to couldn't understand why bike companies spray/lacquer over an area of the frame that is more subject to stress/flex (as in my case), as it just leads to an increase in warrantly claims when, in fact, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the frame.

I did exactly what monkeyp above has suggested (and what the guy at the carbon frame repairers said), and I marked each end of the crack with a marker. It hasn't spread. In my case the "crack" was in a relatively high-stress area (where the seatstay meets the dropout) and it hasn't budged. I'm 100% confident that it's the paint and not the frame.

ive had very similar looking marks on a frame in the past and it was just a paint crack/scratch. really dont think youve got anything to worry about there mate

Thanks!

Also just noticed this on the down tube:

[img] ?ver=12772062090001[/img]

Can't work out whether the underlying carbon is damaged or not 🙁

First one just looks like a crack in the paint. Second is a nice scrape, but nowt serious.

The moral of the tale? Don't buy carbon frames off ebay if your a bit fussy 😉

LOL.

Tap the area of both with a coin - it it rings true then probably fine, if it sounds dull/dead then it might be worth further investigation.

Personally I'd just touch them up with some nail lacquer and enjoy riding it

The second photo looks much worst than the first one how come you didn't see and ask about that one first?
Both look like paint / laquer damage to me

that second pic doesntlook good. was it not mentioned in the sale?

My Mojo has damage like that - i'm not at all fussed.

Well it's kind of reached a stalemate with the original seller (waves in case he's reading). His description was:

This bike is over 12 months and shows signs of general use i.e cable wear, small scratches and chips. However there is no serious damage, cracks, deep scratches etc.

None of his photos showed either of these two areas of the frame.

So my motivation for posting this thread was to get some second opinions as to whether either of these two marks were serious enough to worry about and therefore whether or not they were contrary to his original description.

The seller is sticking to his guns and refuses to admit there was anything incorrect in his advert. So now I'm stuck 🙁

You're not stuck. You've got a great bike that isn't going to break.

i think he's out of order there mate, that second pic definately should have been shown. send it back to him recorded delivery and open up a paypal dispute.

i'd be seriously pi55ed off, may not be that deep or owt but it definately should have been shown

Personally I don't think either of them are anything to worry about.

Stick a bit of resin or nail lacquer in the mark on the downtube and it'll be fine.

*EDIT - I agree with the comment above though. The damage should really have been shown when it was listed. Perhaps you should send him a few good, detailed pics of it and request a few quid back. I don't think you need to go down the full refund route.

None of his photos showed either of these two areas of the frame.

Thats the crux for me. Same when I bought a set of forks off of here. ALOT of photos but strangely none on where the scratches on the stanchions were.

Daffy- thats an accident you had and know how/the details of how it happened. That downtube scrape is MAJOR. NO ****ing way would I accept that as
"small scratches and chips."

"However there is no serious damage, cracks, deep scratches etc."

So what would you describe that on the downtube? I'd describe it as 'there is a section of carbon/coating missing with various small damage around it- in the pics you can see this'.

Open a paypal dispute unless you bought outside of Ebay/not at auction end?

(Waves back)

exactly. if you'd been shown, then fair enough - but to me the seller has decieved you on purpouse

mdr75

Noted not to buy anything from you.

I did open an ebay dispute in the end just to try and get this resolved, is a paypal dispute different then?

To be quite honest the whole thing is actually a bit more complicated because I had already started servicing the bike and swapping a few bits around before I noticed that second bit of damage. So technically the bike is no longer in the condition it was when I bought it....

Ho hum.

Hora - stop pratting about. I really don't want to get into a whole mud-slinging, name and shame, load of crap on here. My original intent was merely to try to find out whether the damage was significant enough to worry about. Although I think the argument that the frame is not as described does hold a lot of weight.

chris - just take the bits off the frame. if youve chaged bearings/bushings then its money lost i suppose, but it shouldnt matter when it comes to getting some/all your money back...

You've absolutely no way of knowing how bad or deep that damage goes. Really you can only take your word on how it was caused and with someones vested-interest in this they could be highly-subjective on the answer they give you.

The fact you've actually started building it up etc means you dont have much grounds IMO.

[b]How is it mud-slinging?[/b] If that really was there before you bought the frame its misdescribed.

The buyer never once asked to view the bike or ask any questions about any previous history.
Had the buyer asked for more info on the general wear marks, i would have happily sent pictures detailing the areas.
In my opinion the overall strength of the carbon has not been compromised at all by the cosmetic damage and had i not had 2 prolasped discs in my back recently i would still be riding it..
Since taking delivery of the bike, the buyer has serviced the rear shock, front forks foam seals and replaced front chainrings whilst also removing the headset bearings in anticipation of new ones arriving.
This work was all carried without my prior knowledge.
I just thought i would add this for everyone's benefit.
Whilst it may be argued he has now enhanced the bike, any work he has carried out will be neither warrant'd nor guaranteed and should not really have been carried out if he never intended to keep the bike.

Sorry Chris but could not just sit back and be tainted as a bad seller.

I'm confused. If I'd just bought a 2nd hand bike or frame, the first thing I'd do would be to make sure it was "as described" and I'd be giving it a good once over before I started any work on it. I wouldn't expect to just discover something like that 2nd mark much later on.

Was that cracked/missing-surface on the downtube there when you sent it off?

"However there is no serious damage, cracks, deep scratches etc."

So you wouldnt class that as none of the above?

A very good point:

'm confused. If I'd just bought a 2nd hand bike or frame, the first thing I'd do would be to make sure it was "as described" and I'd be giving it a good once over before I started any work on it. I wouldn't expect to just discover something like that 2nd mark much later on.

Someone either didnt check (although you sound competent to build a frame?) or....someone isnt being totally honest and it might not be the Sellers fault?

As the dispute is ongoing i won't be commenting on the matter any further until it is resolved.

Fair enough, I should have examined the frame more closely when it first arrived, my mistake - I just started sorting it out in a fit of enthusiasm. This is a mistake I won't make again.

My intention with this thread was NOT slag off the seller, nor to identify him in public, nor to go through all of the various issues raised in my dispute with him. All I wanted to do was to try to establish whether the damage was significant (and thus by inference whether or not it met the sellers original description).

To be fair the consensus on here [i]appears[/i] to be that whilst the damage doesn't tally with the description, it [i]probably[/i] isn't structural enough to worry about.

ChrisS - can I suggest you take it to a connondale dealer for a full inspection - just so you get peace of mind, if nothing else.

Good idea, might try that - thanks.

I think that all that can be learn't from this is check stuff over when it arrives. In my opinion as soon as you change parts etc the bikes yours.

I was in a similar situation where i sold a bike and two months after getting positive feedback the buyer tried to claim £60 out of me because the rear brake started to leak, Its all about reasonable time. Had it been like that when i sold the box would have brake fluid on it and it would have been noticed straight away.

The damage near cannondale logo could have been done in transport or even when sat in you garage.

I've alot of experience working with carbon frames and seen alot of warrenty claims. Your frame doesn't LOOK like it would be any sort of problem the mark on the top tube is more than likely a scratch. the other damage to the paint and possibly the top layer of carbon. But thats all anyone can say from a picture on a forum, as said above take it to a Cannondale dealer and let them have a look.

I don't really think the seller has done anything wrong in this case, you could have helped him by inspecting the bike straight away which would give him the opportunity to resolve the issue fairly. So I think its an unfair representation of him as a seller.

Biggest problem at the moment is finding replacement headset bearings. The oem headset is a weird reducer (1.5 to 1 1/8) with very short insertion depth, it takes Tange Seiki 4T5-5 cartridge bearings (41mm od, both chamfers 45 degrees). Nobody seems to sell these or list them as existing. New Cane creek headset would be best part of £90. Standard 36/45 degree ones don't fit, campy 45/45 are too larger diameter <sigh> 🙁

Have you tried a local bearing supplier? if you take your existing bearings in sure they would find you a replacement

Chris you sound like an utter tit I'm afraid. 🙄

You should've checked it over first and if you weren't happy with the bike you should've voiced your concerns before fiddling and faffing with the bike.

It'll be fine, just ride it. Both ares are just part of the deal.

weird reducer (1.5 to 1 1/8)

weird reducer (1.5 to 1 1/8)

Weird in that it uses unusual 45/45 degree bearings and a very short cup insertion length, not just a bog standard step down headset. Apparently the version used in cannondale alloy frames won't work for this reason.

Chris you sound like an utter **** I'm afraid.

Thanks for that, does it make you feel a bigger man insulting people from behind the safety of your computer screen?

If you actually bothered to read the whole thread, some people clearly agree with me, others don't. Hardly clear cut enough to warrant this kind of abuse. 🙄 Maybe you should stick to the classifieds, which judging from your posting history, seems to be your only real interest in this site.