I am a cyclist, and am very aware of the high profile being given to the cyclist vs motorist issues at the current time. This is further accentuated by the recently reported accidents resulting in injury and more tragically death.
In most cases I staunchly support the plight of the people trying to enjoy their bikes amidst the hoards of mad motorists ! However, recently and most notably today,I have been witness to situations and events that make me feel embarrassed to be associated with cycling.
I live and regularly drive around the Box Hill area, as all know this is very popular for road and mountain bikes of all abilities. Today the roads were damp and the weather was quite foggy severely reducing visibility. As I drove through the lanes in my van I was staggered at the amount of people on the road with no lights whatsoever. I was rounding corners to find (and I don't mean once or even twice) people on road bikes on my side of the road either a few abreast or taking a line through a corner riding fast. Now they were really difficult to see and were not in general riding to suit the conditions...... Scary stuff. I did at one point when I had to come to a complete stop politely suggest the the guy involved, who looked a bit shaken, invest in some lights to assist him being visible. His response to this invaluable advice? F### Off ! The people riding with good lights were giving themselves quite a lot of time and distance advantage, they amounted to about 10% though.
I am amazed how few seem to bother !!
Sorry rant over !
New Year newbies. Resolutions to loose a stone, etc. Loads out my way today, 5 or more times usual numbers and one group of 30 odd.
Won't last long, don't worry.
Perhaps you should have slowed down once you realised how busy it was and knowing how popular it is?
Oh and extra points for getting in the two abreast bit as well
To be fair to the fella there was alot of fresh lycra on the roads today..... Made obvious by the roads they were riding just paralel to great quiet riding roads ---- on the busy roads - you only need to cross the main roads , no need to ride along em youd have to be a bit mental to choose to do it.
Out today off road in the new forest...
Crossing a road, heavy fog, 6 roadies, no lights.... nutters!
Troll
Oh, another one of these threads. It makes you wonder what changed so significantly since you last drove. Perhaps the approach of 2013 has sent 90% of cyclists mental.
Must admit I should have had a rear light on today, a bit foolish and felt slightly vunerable on my way to local trails. Left the house after not really looking at the weather, got further into country roads and it was pretty foggy. Sometimes its just a mistake, but no need for his comment.
Ti pin : 🙄
Lols
I must agree with the OP. Just because its the middle of the day, it doesnt mean visibility is good!
I have a couple of sets of those little LED lights. They stay on my bike near enough all year round.
Some people are just ****ing stupid.
Just trying to get people to consider raising their visibility when on the road that's all ! Excuse me for voicing an opinion on a relevant cycling issue on a cycling forum !!!
Those that think its trolling or nonsense... Get back to your 'what tyres for?' Threads 🙁
Had my lights on most of the Day between the trails, been a Pea Souper round here.
Saw a stupid number of riders without lights in the thick fog when I did a loop around and over Winter Hill earlier. I just presumed that they all had a death wish. Idiots.
I only saw one road cyclist out today and he had lights.
Saw a couple of mountain bikers near nibthwaite and I dont think they had lights though (its not something you usually think of using if you go mtbing though!)
If it was foggy, damp, etc, were you driving significantly slower?
I drove my van round that area too today, had no problem seeing roadies.
Eye test maybe?
I ploughed into a bunch of cyclists today because I was travelling too fast to see them. they were ok about it, at least the ones who survived were, as I pointed out they didn't have any lights on! doh! Never mind, eh. we live and learn.
I really can't be bothered to pull up the chair and watch the debate yet again between cyclists and drivers. Nothing changes, cars continue to kill cyclist and eek cars might get slightly scratched. Yes we should all be more considerate for our lives and the lives of others but its been debated on here so very many times its getting tiring. Yes we sjould make sure we're more visible on foggy days to aboid death, but i dont believe any laws are broken and if they have theres no enforcement. no of which makes it any more sensibke not to be visible. yada yada yada. the usual conclusion is theres Knobs on bikes and knobs in cars. Nuff said.
Edit: love predictive text 😉
New Year newbies. Resolutions to loose a stone, etc. Loads out my way today, 5 or more times usual numbers and one group of 30 odd.Won't last long, don't worry.
I'm guessing that the time trialists who use the A38 in all weathers are a bit more than New Year newbies. Some have bright coloured tops which, unfortunately, are hidden from upcoming motorists by the fact they're bent over the bars. A pair of yellow shorts or a flashing LED on the seatpost (very little weight penalty) might make them a bit more visible in the fog or half light.
I've see several soberly dresses cyclists out on the misty Devon roads this weekend who could've improved their visibility to more lethal traffic by not wearing black or having some sort of lights.
I've got a couple of road riding friends who like to camouflage themselves in trendy black or grey cycling apparel (with a trendy logo & a little pink band on the sleeve). People can't be told though. Roadies* in denial 🙄 They'd rather polarise the motorist/cyclist debate than take any personal responsibility for making them selves more obvious out on the tarmac.
Cheers,
yer man in the fluoro tabard,
Rich.
*(and many other kinds of cyclist)
Just trying to get people to consider raising their visibility when on the road that's all ! Excuse me for voicing an opinion on a relevant cycling issue on a cycling forum !!!
Having an opinion, you know an opinion, like your opinion, an opinion which is yours is illegal on here.
Saw loads today on the way to racing, thick fog and no lights, and shorts SHORTS!
Bet they never had pumps either.
mleh.
What TPM said.
Unless there's a legal duty on cyclists to use lights in fog then the duty is on drivers to drive according to the conditions.
'legal duty' v's 'common sense'.
It is every road users responsibility to make them self's visible.
Drivers need to drive to the conditions, but we as cyclist should have the ounce to have some lights if we are going to go out in fog low visibility.
I was out on the Ped today and saw a cyclist, cutting a blind corner in very thick fog. even if the car was doing 2mph he wouldnt have seen the cyclist, and in the opinion of people like cynic-al he would be in the right.
Every road user should take responsibility for themselfs and others.
slugwash, lots of testers use powerful LEDs, which is nice.
They're so cheap, powerful and light that just about every rider I know or see has one on at all times. See motorists might not be that fond of cyclists, but they love pretty lights.
I think this Sunday was 'special Sunday'.
I did 40miles solo on the roadbike this morning over the Surrey Hills and up on the tops the visability was very poor at times. Everyone - cyclists and car drivers - should have had lights on. I did and was very glad.
Unless there's a legal duty on cyclists to use lights in fog then the duty is on drivers to drive according to the conditions.
Doesn't really matter if you're right or wrong when you're dead though, does it.
I also think that some of the poeple on here should read this
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82/overview-59-to-71
Rscott - MemberI was out on the Ped today and saw a cyclist, cutting a blind corner in very thick fog. even if the car was doing 2mph he wouldnt have seen the cyclist, and in the opinion of people like cynic-al he would be in the right.
The cyclist was on the wrong side of the road? Where did I condone that?
svalgis - Member
Doesn't really matter if you're right or wrong when you're dead though, does it.
Indeed but the law as I understand it does not require cyclists to use lights, and I for one don't want to create a culture where the blamne is shifted from drivers to cyclists (see helmet use).
Also as I understand it there is no duty on cyclists to wear bright clothing, as regards contributory negligence, in RTCs - from caselaw, and in spite of the HC link above.
My mate and I were out around the surrey lanes today.
Both keep rear lights on the road bike all the time. My mates was out of battery, should have checked before we set out but then it wasn't obviously foggy at my place. I wished id had a front light on tbh.
I guess my point is that I guess a lot of the riders without lights probably wished they did have them
Sure.. sorry, flippant 1st reply from me. As for hi-viz and day-lights and making yourself more obvious, it's up to the rider if they feel safer that way but it's a slippery-slope topic )I'm guessing that the time trialists who use the A38 in all weathers are a bit more than New Year newbies.
There's common sense and reasonable precautions as a road user, and there's blame-shifting.
cynic-al I appologise you didn't condone that at all. But your post does seem to suggest that it isn't a cyclist responsibility to make them self's visable
lol! cynic-al! Really? Are you more concerned about legalities than your own safety? It wont mean jack sh*te when you are in hospital, whos fault it was! Riding m/bikes everyday and you'll realise that you should do whatever it takes to avoid having an accident - I dont care who's bl**dy fault an accident is!
The highway code advises all road users to wear hi-vis or reflective clothing in poor visibility, that applies to walkers, horse riders, cyclists....and cars should have lights on too.
If somebody is out in crappy weather and dressed in dark clothing when hit by another road user then i have very little sympathy, you cant help people who wont help themselves.
Unless I missed this the OP wasn't complaining about the cyclists being selfish or holding them but was commenting on how stupid it is not to make yourself visible in poor conditions.
cynic-al - Member
What TPM said.Unless there's a legal duty on cyclists to use lights in fog then the duty is on drivers to drive according to the conditions.
What's legal and what's sensible / safe are completely different things.
As always all road users need to be considerate and sensible.
Written as a mountain biker, roadie, and driver.
When I woke up at 8 it was misty, then cleared by 10am when I finally left the house.
My intention was to stay off road but due to the quagmire went back on road, needless to say the conditions were misty 6 miles from home and I only had my rear light.
In hindsight should have taken my front light 'just in case'
Cumbrianmonkey makes a very valid point.
@OP and while we're at it what's with them riding down the A24 in Leatherhead direction instead of using the cycle path alongside. Bloody idiots! And how much fun can that be, on a busy dual carriageway with traffic buzzing past continuously.
I don't get it at all. Like you say, deathwish.
(Aside: I drove the same area today, as the OP says it was a salutary lesson in how lights and/or bright clothing help raise the odds of rider survival. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way, but it is).
I saw loads more riders than usual out this morning and like others have said very few had any form of lights on or bright clothing. I know I am slightly paranoid about riding with lights on in iffy conditions (and I always keep a rear light on at all times) but why would anyone think it a good idea to set off in the early morning when it's foggy and drizzly and not put lights on. As some have said, we expect drivers to be aware of the condiitons and conduct themsleves accordingly but in the same way as I expect drivers to see and be seen shouldn't we as cyclists do the same?
We drove 90 miles today, all of the journey in various thicknesses of fog, and all bar one of the cyclists we saw had no lights.
Most of the roads we were on were 50 speed limit too.
Mentalists.
Where did I say I cared more abot legalities than safety?
cumbrian I think you need to chill out a bit.
In any event the point about fog is that it reduces visibility. A driver could come across pedestrians, stopped traffic etc, if he's not driving safely according to the conditions then he's putting all other roud users at risk. It's like that RTC where the driver got off killing a cyclist because the sun was in his eyes.
I'm happy for folk to dress like Xmas trees when they ride their bikes, and I have reflective stuff and lights, I just don't think there should be a duty in these circumstances.
Could not agree more with the OP
It was so dark and damp this morning almost every car had its lights on, most with dipped ... where as, almost every cyclist had no lights and worse still the vast majority were wearing black as well !!
We here alot about using our presents on the road to help keep us safe... riding two abreast or in the middle of the road where needs be and I of course agree with this.... But you've got naff all presents if you can't be seen
PLUG YOURSELVES IN
and BRIGHTEN UP.
I was planning to ride my road bike this mlorning, which I already fitted with front and rear lights, but chickened out due to the visibility and went off-road instead. Had a flashing front light, but rear flashy didn't work. Felt vulnerable, and a bit of a tit on the mile or so road section home, and glad it wasn't any longer. Think I agree with the sentiments of the OP.
OP and factor, good points, well made. Ignore the lazy trolling accusing you of the same.
I was out for a latish ride yesterday and bit off a little too much. Result was I took short cut home on roads just after 16:00. No lights and wearing all black. 😳 No more than a mile and a half, but frankly it was me being slightly stupid (although i would have walked if it was really dark) and I would not have been able to duck the blame if a motorist had not seen me. As others have said WE all have responsibilities on the road. I failed mine briefly yesterday and sounds as if the roadies were doing the same around Box Hill today. IMO of course!
Did anyone drive into the back of any of these people?
If not, do you think that just down to luck, or some other reason?
