[Closed] Cyclist / cycle lane / "road rage" video

the rider joined the road in the police car's blind spot

Have you ever ridden much in London? You spend most of your time passing static traffic - passing from blind spot to blind spot...

And to my point above - if the Policeman were properly trained about what is best practice cycling technique (Bikeability) and the way that cyclists will ride to keep themselves safe, then he would have also known that 'cycling furiously' wouldn't have stuck as a charge as all the cyclist was doing was riding along the carriageway, which isn't 'cycling furiously'

As far as I could tell from the video, the cyclist is parallel to the Police car when he chooses to move to the right and into the main road - essentially changing lanes.

Clearly the fat policeman is a clown who reached for the horn instead of the brake, but the cyclist doesn't have the moral high ground here either. The Policeman didn't pull him up for cycling badly (as above, he will have seen plenty of worse cyclist moves that day) he pulled him up for being gobby.

No you're not; you're just you, on your bike. Nothing else.

Yes you are. If you like it or not, your represent cyclist just by being on a bike on the road. How you behave on your bike directly influences how other road users see cyclist. Try not to ride like a nob.

Unless you have access to information the rest of us don't, how do you know this?

Who, the copper?

Is it your video clodhopper?

Car must be in the right here according to you clodhopper.

 

Weve got the best cycle paths between Dorking and Leatherhead, but you still get these weapons riding on the dual carrigeways....boils my piss!

Like a few others I can't let that slide! They're pretty shit. Loads of debris, bad surface, road crossings. Ok Spring/summer, but in winter it's one giant puddle, and in Autumn it's buried in leaves which can be lethal! I'll use the road if I damn well want!

This thread highlights a major downside to cycle lanes. Even some cyclists think you have to use one if it is there. If you want to ride at 20mph then the best place is not a cycle lane, it is on the road.

Most drivers probably think you are breaking the law by cycling on their road but you would hope most cyclists wouldn't...

Not commenting on this video directly, but I had an encounter with a poorly educated copper on Cable Street in East London recently.

on an evening CS3 (cycle lane) was very busy with cyclists riding very fast (too fast considering the width and number of other riders), a good number without lights, some on the wrong side of the dual lane at times or doing dangerous overtakes causing oncoming riders to brake or swerve.

I decided to ride on Cable Street which runs parallel to CS3, as I felt the cycle lane was unsafe.

Coming up to a junction (I am doing 20km/h) a copper yells at me "Oi! Green hat, come here" (I was wearing a green Giro helmet), so I slow down and stop.

Then proceeds to tell me I have no business riding on the road. As a cycle lane has been provided. I politely tell him what the highway code states, that I have considered CS3 dangerous, and I have a right of way to cycle on the highway.

He is having none of this, and continues to press his "case", I ask him why he is not stopping cyclists riding at night without lights (passing right next to him), he says nothing about that. He also fails to stop a motorist who has turned across the cycle path as we are talking...

He gets aggressive, starts calling me "Geez.."

I ask him for his badge number and station address, at that point he asks me to go about my business 😉

I think the problem is that the Police basically do what the daily mail reading, LBC listening idiots tell them to do, even when the thing they are complaining about is perfectly legal.

HH's point is why we should all be taking the PCC elections more seriously. They are potentially a chance to force roads policing higher up police priority list. Idealistic yes..but with UKIP putting up PCC candidates in some areas........

If the roles were reversed and the cop had cut up the bike would we be defending the cop??!

His ridding fell below the standard. He was requested to stop. He ignored it. Went straight in with the attitude and got read his rights.

You're on your bike, you're an ambassador, set the standard.

Is this a troll? I would guess he has never ridden a bicycle, I always swerve to miss potholes, pedestrians you name it, Car drivers have to anticipate this and the highway code makes provision for this by allowing us this room, I do not have the benefit of a rear view mirror on my bike, and am not about to put one on just to appease dumb car drivers.
That copper is what is wrong with the Met police. An ambassador I think was the term fourbanger used.
Does fourbanger refer to a car engine I wonder?

Yes you are. If you like it or not, your represent cyclist just by being on a bike on the road. How you behave on your bike directly influences how other road users see cyclist. Try not to ride like a nob.

No, No thrice no. Every time you go out as a woman how you behave directly influences how other people see women. Are you going to stand by that statement?

http://beyondthekerb.org.uk/2013/10/11/the-most-basic-respect/

Have you never heard a member of the public, colleague, associate, random on YouTube talk about "cyclists"?

You've literally just posted an article supporting my argument. Just because it's not how it should be and you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't the case.

How you behave on your bike directly influences how other road users see cyclist.

TBH if we all rode like saints some car drivers would still hate us

Yes there are bad cyclist but lets not pretend all the hatred is just die to how we cycle. Car driving standards, cannot say for london, are far worse than any cycling I see and FAR more dangerous to other road users.

what do ya want mate?" Straight in with the attitude

With eight million arseholes in one toilet youre gonna get a lot of shit.

Copper's already got a monk on about the first guy then when laddo cuts him up (which he does) that's his excuse to get righteous

gummikuh, not trolling, just wondered if we watched the same video. I saw a cyclist give a copper some attitude, cut him up, fail to stop, then get what was coming. Copper could have handled it better. Cyclist could have avoided it altogether.

I cycled Waterloo to London Bridge yesterday. Managed to do it without jumping any red lights, cutting anyone up or causing any agro, so yeah I cycle.

Does fourbanger refer to a car engine I wonder?

Cougar - Moderator

the rider joined the road in the police car's blind spot

I'm failing to see how this would be a problem to someone who had been a police driver for 30 years and was driving past a good number of cyclists. The cyclist wasn't perfect sure, but not anticipating that is shitty driving.

It wasn't a problem for the police driver, hence why he didn't squash him. But as the officer pointed out to the cyclist, riding like that might end him up under someone elses wheel (the lorry). If you change lanes you should only do so if there is space.

Pulling out to overtake a slower cyclist into the path of an accelerating car (it was also pulling away from the lights) is a stupid move that cyclists in London seem to love doing.

Stand outside Kings cross on a visit to London and every phase of lights is filled with cyclists pulling stupid moves trying to overtake each other by diving out in front of the cars also trying to pull away. Given how much everyone says cabbies in London hate cyclists im amazed there isn't a fight every 5 minutes outside that place.

Yes one can hardly be more disrespectful to a copper than ask them why they stopped you.
Probably amongst the worst ways he has ever been spoken to by anyone.

If you want to pretend that the way he spoke wasn't confrontational that's fine. If I'd just swerved from lane to lane, cutting up a police car, it wouldn't be my opening line. Swerving into the police car's lane was confrontational and how he spoke was confrontational. All the other cyclist managed to hold their lane. He wanted confrontation and he got it.

Fourbanger; I think you are putting 2 and 2 together, and making 5, 6, 7 or whatever suits your own particular argument. Several other people see things differently. And we disagree with you. You are of course entitled to your point of view, as are we to ours.

"Yes you are. If you like it or not, your represent cyclist just by being on a bike on the road. How you behave on your bike directly influences how other road users see cyclist. Try not to ride like a nob."

Again; repeating this doesn't make it any more correct. It's just your own opinion. Personally, I represent nobody but myself, just as one Black/Jewish/Muslim/Gay/whatever person doesn't represent anyone else whatever group you may choose to put them in. A person on a bike is nothing more than an individual human being, and to see them as otherwise is to act with prejudice.

His ridding fell below the standard. He was requested to stop. He ignored it. Went straight in with the attitude and got read his rights.

Did we watch the same video?

The copper didn't "request him to stop," he leant on his horn and shouted some twaddle about cycle lanes, as far as I can tell primarily as a result of [i]someone else[/i] swerving out of the cycle lane. As soon as he fired up the blues and twos the cyclist stopped as soon as was (arguably) safe to do so. Big man in a big car hurling abuse, I'd have ignored him too. I've no time for bullies.

The copper then didn't read him anything, he went on a tirade of whataboutery and tried to intimidate the cyclist with threats about taking his name (which you're not obliged to comply with unless being detained). As soon as the policeman realised the rider wasn't about to bend over he sodded off.

And what "riding standard" exactly constituted him breaking the law?

Yes one can hardly be more disrespectful to a copper than ask them why they stopped you.

Seems a perfectly reasonable request to me, given that the evidence he'd provided to that point was "you're not in the cycle lane" which is pish (and the subsequent explanation was based on clairvoyance).

Don't like the whole "you should be in the cycle lane" attitude, least of all from the police who should know better.

Getting more of this now that some of the cycle lanes in central London are opening, I've already had some 'that's your bit and this is ours' comments while commuting. Some of the cycle traffic lights take ages to change and it's quicker to use the proper road.

As for the copper, some are great and some deserve the pig title, same as any other cross section of society.

PS; telling a traffic cop to 'lose the attitude mate' does not go down well, I know this 😀

Again; repeating this doesn't make it any more correct. It's just your own opinion. Personally, I represent nobody but myself, just as one Black/Jewish/Muslim/Gay/whatever person doesn't represent anyone else whatever group you may choose to put them in. A person on a bike is nothing more than an individual human being, and to see them as otherwise is to act with prejudice.

You make a valid point there. No one in the history of the world has ever been prejudice.... Apart from, to a greater or lesser extent, just about every human to have ever existed.

You may not like the fact that people are prejudice against all sorts of different groups with common traits, but they are.

You may see yourself as an individual who rides a bike, fantastic! Many people will see you as just another cyclist. If you chose to or not, if they meet you, you represent cyclists. This isn't something you get a choice in. This is the real world. How you behave on a bike has an influence on how people view and treat cyclists.

[i]Did we watch the same video?

The copper didn't "request him to stop," he leant on his horn and shouted some twaddle about cycle lanes, as far as I can tell primarily as a result of someone else swerving out of the cycle lane. As soon as he fired up the blues and twos the cyclist stopped as soon as was (arguably) safe to do so. Big man in a big car hurling abuse, I'd have ignored him too. I've no time for bullies.

The copper then didn't read him anything, he went on a tirade of whataboutery and tried to intimidate the cyclist with threats about taking his name (which you're not obliged to comply with unless being detained). As soon as the policeman realised the rider wasn't about to bend over he sodded off.

And what "riding standard" exactly constituted him breaking the law?[/i]

This.

The guy with the camera was in the cycle lane until after the police car sounded his horn. He seemed to move out of his lane as a result of the conversation with the copper. I thought the copper was sounding his horn at the other guy.

Dont call me mate

They are not his mate , thay are going to cost the poor guy points and pounds or crush his car, not the sort of actions a mate would do.

This copper is a ****, beeping his horn , then the two tones as a bike gets near his car , well welcome to London.

As for the ' There is abike lane , you must use it attitude ' get lost , its full of fat knackers on Decathlon hybrids doing 12mph

You may see yourself as an individual who rides a bike, fantastic! Many people will see you as just another cyclist. If you chose to or not, if they meet you, you represent cyclists. This isn't something you get a choice in. This is the real world. How you behave on a bike has an influence on how people view and treat cyclists.

You're right. The real world is full of ill-informed prejudiced people making negative, stereotyped judgements.

But where you wrong is whether we have a choice in this. We can't choose not to be the target of someone else's prejudice but we can choose to fight back and correct that prejudice. You may have noticed that the 20th century and esp the last 10 years or so, the fight back against prejudice has made some great progress: Jews, Blacks, Women, Gays, Disabled - all these communities have fought back and made progress...

So you can roll over and say 'some people judge cyclists, deal with it', or you can fight back. Remembering that at it's worst this prejudice has resulted in people being killed and their killers given no real punishment (read Martin Porter's recent piece about biased juries. It's also stopping a lot of people riding as they're too scared because of the poor quality and aggressiveness of driving...

So on the one hand you're right, cyclists get judged. But where we disagree is on whether we should accept that, or fight for positive change. Given the impact more people riding will have on mental health, pollution and obesity I think it's well worth fighting back. Let alone the fact that I just like riding my bike without being abused by idiots who can't cope with change..

And someone needs to have a word with that cop about reciprocity. If he goes around addressing members of the public so aggressively, he's going to get static back. Perhaps if his opening lines were a bit more adult he might get a better response! The cyclist was hardly some hardened criminal committing the crime of the century...

As a pedestrian, mountain biker & car driver in that order, I though the road rider was riding like a total b@llend weaving around like that.

I never suggested not fighting prejudice. I just said set the standard when it comes to how you use the road. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Neither the cyclist or the policeman came out of that looking good.

The key thing for me, though, is that the policeman was happy to throw the weight of his 'authority' around, then backed off without issuing a fine or a caution, when he realised that he was losing the argument.

(Not helped by his completely unobservant behaviour whilst getting in/out of his own vehicle, and a poor understanding of the law, despite 30 years 'service')

ALL road users need to just wind their necks in - it's getting far to unpleasant out there.

Neither party came out of that well. Cyclist looked to be trying to prove a point to me; his manoeuvre seemed to either deliberately or otherwise take him too close to the police vehicle, which could be interpreted as provocative. Copper displayed typical arrogant copper attitude; they are so used to people either a) sucking up to them, or b) giving them verbal, that they struggle to respond to the middle ground that this was; someone sticking up for himself in a confident but possibly a little too bolshy a way. Neither handled the verbal very well, too much of both parties being convinced of their own correctness, and FAR too little of both parties listening to what the other has got to say. Militant cyclist meets dyed in the wool copper, went probably a little better than could be expected TBH.

1-1

If he cycled out without indicating he deserved to get pulled over. Any other road user would.

If he did, can't see a problem with his riding. Its not how I would personally ride but don't have an issue really with others doing it.

If he cycled out without indicating he deserved to get pulled over. Any other road user would.
If he did, can't see a problem with his riding. Its not how I would personally ride but don't have an issue really with others doing it.

Sort of agree, except the act of indicating is just that; an indication of intentions. It doesn't give the rider/driver an express right to carry out the manoeuvre, just lets other road users know what he/she would like to do.

Fair point as he could have just ridden straight into the path of the copper with or without his arm sticking out.

The only 'attitude' I can see is that of an arsey copper who just wants to throw his weight around for no reason. I do thousands of road miles a year, but commuting by bike in a city like that London just looks so shit that I doubt I'd bother. I'd rather take my chances in the traffic than plod along getting frustrated by all the nodders in the bike lane though.

If he cycled out without indicating he deserved to get pulled over. Any other road user would.

Sarcasm mode on / Oh yes , you see countless BMW's and Audi's getting stopped by the police everyday for not indicating at roundabouts or when lane changing on the motorway // Sarcasm mode off

The only 'attitude' I can see is that of an arsey copper who just wants to throw his weight around for no reason.

Bobby - you cycle like a dick and are going get yourself killed
Cyclist - you think I should be on the cycle path and shouldn't blow your horn at people
Bobby - I sounded my horn as per the Highway Code and have not said you should be on the cycle path, RESPEC' MA AUTHORITAH!
Cyclist - you think I should be on a cycle path and you shouldn't blow your horn at people
Bobby - RESPEC' MA AUTHORITAH!!!

Etc etc.

Both dicks. One more dangerous and should know better than the other, mind you

"I never suggested not fighting prejudice. I just said set the standard when it comes to how you use the road. The two aren't mutually exclusive."

What you actually said was:

"You're on your bike, you're an ambassador, set the standard."

Which is your personal view. One which others don't share. We cannot be held responsible for the attitudes and prejudices of other individuals. If some idiot has got it into their head that 'all cyclists bad', I very much doubt my 'good' riding will change their mind in any way; their mindset is to look for the negative, in order to reinforce their own prejudice. It's down to them to educate themselves and stop being prejudiced pricks, not for me to go out of my way to 'respect' them.

As for that copper; 30 years and still only having a relatively lowly rank, and having to drive around in heavy traffic, breathing in noxious fumes. He can't have been a particularly good police officer.

v8ninety - Member

probably says more about your own internal bias than anything constructive about the video, TBH. I'm sure I'm slave to my own biases, but they both acted like pig headed dicks in my eyes. Neither listened to one another, and both repeated what they wanted to say without accepting or even acknowledging the others perspective.

No, it says more about my view of what the video shows. Without the copper being arsey the bloke just rides home without incident and there's no footage on YouTube. I'd quite rightly be annoyed if a copper stopped me for no bloody reason too, and especially with an attitude like his. And before you imply some kind of negative bias towards HM finest, I lead weekly road rides for my club that include several coppers - none of which give it the 'big I am'. They're riding mates that crack on like everybody else.

I'd quite rightly be annoyed if a copper stopped me for no bloody reason too

And it wasn't for nothing, was it? It was (rightly or wrongly) because the cyclist decided to suddenly change lanes into the same road space as the police car, right after having berated said police car for agressive behaviour. It was a bit like the worst thought out punishment pass ever, really. It was kind of a forgone conclusion; like dodgy gay porn, it was dick on dick action.

I'm glad that we agree.

So in your world anyone that gets annoyed by someone else being arsey is a bit of a dick? The arsey copper stopped the cyclist to give him the 'benefit' of his opinion. The cyclist didn't want to either be stopped unnecessarily or listen to the copper's opinion, neither would I, and neither would most other folk. Coppers are public servants, paid to uphold the law. If the cyclist had done something illegal then the copper could have reasonably decided to do something about it. As the video shows, he backed off because he met his match when trying to throw his weight around.

*edit for autocorrect typo.

It comes down to whether or not you think that the copper had any right to pull the bloke over and talk to him, doesn't it. I reckon, on balance of probabilities, there's a fair chance that he had a point, TBH. (Appreciate others think different). He [i]didnt[/i] tell the cyclist that he should have been in the cycle lane (which is what the cyclist seemed to be hoping) and he did have a point about use of the horn. Swerving into lanes with motor vehicles moving at speed without even doing a shoulder check (which is what the other rider did, and what it seems the copper thinks the cyclist did too) IS a way of getting yourself smeared over the road. Yes, copper handled it badly, but so did the cyclist. He could have at least listened to the coppers point of view, and the copper could have patiently waited until the cyclist ran out of steam, and talked to him in an adult manner, instead of being a patronising grumpy plod. However the cyclist was a bit of a smarmy know it all, looking for a confrontation (is my impression) and obviously wasn't interested in listening. A pair of prize plums.

We need a new collective noun for a group of people caught in camera v car videos - a knob of, a go-pro of, - as both parties are normally at fault.

Cyclist rode like a bit of a tit. Copper acted like a compete tit and despite the cyclist being a knob, good for him for standing up the the copper's attempt to intimidate him.

If the copper is/was so concerned about road safety why did he not stop the VW who pulled out like a **** into the traffic??

The cyclist didn't want to either be stopped unnecessarily or listen to the copper's opinion, neither would I, and neither would most other folk

Most other cyclists wouldn't swerve out in front of a car let alone a cap car either.

If the cyclist had looked over his shoulder and moved out into clear space or waited the whole situation could have been avoided.

It was kind of a forgone conclusion; like dodgy gay porn, it was dick on dick action.

Nail on head.

I agree with Brooess and Cougar and have little to add, however:

"As a pedestrian, mountain biker & car driver in that order, I though the road rider was riding like a total b@llend weaving around like that."
I have gone back to look at the video several times and I just don't see the weaving, if it was filmed from behind you might be able to tell, but as it is. The cyclist did appear to move out of his lane slightly, but was still a good distance away from the police car. I'm a goody two shoes but I wouldn't hesitate to cycle like that (clearly the cycle lane is far too narrow, they should have one full lane for cyclists and another for motorised & faster moving cyclists).
As far as I'm concerned the police officer should be spoken to about abusing his power.

 

they both acted like pig headed dicks in my eyes.

But enough about David Cameron.

He didnt tell the cyclist that he should have been in the cycle lane (which is what the cyclist seemed to be hoping) and he did have a point about use of the horn.

Are you sure? It's hard to tell exactly what he says over the wind noise, but he shouted something about cycle lanes twice (I think) when he was still in the car. He only changed his tune when the rider asked him directly presumably because he'd worked out by then that the cyclist knew full well that he was allowed to be in the road.

As for the horn, sure, he was potentially alerting other road users to his presence the first time he hit it; but I'd suggest that they were then all well aware of his presence before the verbal tirade and the 37 other horn blasts which followed.