[Closed] Cotic Soul, now with tapered HT and 31.9 Seat tube - hooray !!!

Maybe its because big people shouldn't ride and its actually a conspiracy

The Soul is available in sizes all the way down to XS, and the Solaris is available in sizes all the way up to XL. Isn't that everyone covered?

Custard yellow is the proper colour for a soul, orange is just a "johny come lately" and a usurper.

The Soul is available in sizes all the way down to XS, and the Solaris is available in sizes all the way up to XL. Isn't that everyone covered?

obviously not, 🙄

why can't they sell x10 XL's world wide then?

perhaps they can but have concluded the people who would buy them might be inveterate whiners

Know nothing about these dropper posts, but giving it some thought, seems like a good edition. I'm continually have to stop raise/lower my seat. Perhaps is because i'm right on the limit of a small frame size wise or perhaps its my lack of skill, but unlike other bikes i've ridden the soul does nto respond half as well on anything remotely downhill with my seat in its `xc postion'.

I'm still in the "dropper is another piece of kit to go wrong camp", but several people whose opinions I respect love them.

It's probably only a matter of time ...

I tried a dropper recently and fell in love with it so much that I ordered one straight away

hmmm I do feel a dropper coming on if you'll pardon the expression.

... does that mean I need a Soul with a bigger seat tube?!

... and does that mean I then need new headset cups for my inch and eighth forks? and won't they look pants sticking out of a wide tapered headtube?

back where we started I think

mattjg - Member
perhaps they can but have concluded the people who would buy them might be inveterate whiners

I'm not whining, I'm asking / making a valid point.

The Solaris tubeset is far more suitable for an XL frame with its longer tubes.
I don't see why anyone big enough to ride one would want to opt for a Soul instead.

Plus XL Solarii look fantastic, the XL Soul, in my opinion, didn't look as good as you'd expect for a Cotic hardtail.

Making an XL Soul now, or an XS Solaris for that matter, would be daft, wouldn't it?

Tim for reasons we can only guess and Cotic probably won't disclose, it seems they don't want to make what you want. Perhaps they feel their time and energy is more usefully invested elsewhere, but that's just conjecture. Right or wrong, that's their privilege.

Also, speaking as a lower-medium height person, who's too small to make the best of a 29er IMO, I think Kelvin's point is valid. If a 26er fits me nice, surely someone your height would be better on a 29er.

But if you know what you want, go get a frame builder to make it for you. In essence, it's a bunch of metal tubes welded together, it's not magic. You can do what you want really, (other then use someone else's trademarks, so you can't call it a Cotic).

Genuine question

What does Cy ride normally, being 6'3" an all (from what I remember)

Would be interested in an XL soul as I'm just over the recommended height (6'4") for a L soul and not certain that I want to buy new wheels / forks and ride round on a clown bike having been quite happy with 26" wheels for the last 20 years or so.

I do accept that most of my bikes look faintly ridiculous with v long seatposts sticking out of a large inbred and a large trance

Just thought it would be interesting to know whether the owner / designer of cotic rides a soul or a solaris (and accept that the answer is likely to be "it depends...")

My mate wanted an XL Soul aswell - ended up getting a Sanderson.

bugger look wot u done. yesterday I was happy & content with my bike, now I want a droppy post and a frame to match it.

bugger look wot u done. yesterday I was happy & content with my

Vortex,

How much for your 16" frame?

kelvin - Member
I don't see why anyone big enough to ride one would want to opt for a Soul instead.

Here is one of many answers...

tinytim - Member
Would be interested in an XL soul as I'm just over the recommended height (6'4") for a L soul and not certain that I want to buy new wheels / forks and ride round on a clown bike having been quite happy with 26" wheels for the last 20 years or so.

Kevin you have this strange approach of telling the customer what they want & dismissing their requests.

The 'old' Soul looked perfect IMO. I understand the changes but I just don't like the look of the new one as much.

mattjg - Member

Tim for reasons we can only guess and Cotic probably won't disclose, it seems they don't want to make what you want. Perhaps they feel their time and energy is more usefully invested elsewhere, but that's just conjecture. Right or wrong, that's their privilege.

Also, speaking as a lower-medium height person, who's too small to make the best of a 29er IMO, I think Kelvin's point is valid. If a 26er fits me nice, surely someone your height would be better on a 29er.

But if you know what you want, go get a frame builder to make it for you. In essence, it's a bunch of metal tubes welded together, it's not magic. You can do what you want really, (other then use someone else's trademarks, so you can't call it a Cotic).

I want a new frame, not a new bike.

I'll just buy another great steel hardtail like a Genesis Latitude.

Hey other Tim, calm down!

I asked Cy, not Kelvin (def not Kevin!) and he probably has better things to do

I just wanted to know what the rather tall owner of the company choses to ride as if he's happy on a L soul that may explain the reluctance to go (x) large

Turns out he's riding a rocket for the weekender...

I'll just buy another great steel hardtail like a Genesis Latitude.

The biggest one of those has a top tube 5mm longer than an L Soul. Is that enough biggerer for you?

Tinytim, Cy does indeed ride a Large. Both Soul and Solaris.

Vortex,

How much for your 16" frame?

£300 posted with Hope QR collar
£330 with Hope headset
£360 with Hope headset and Hope Stainless BB

Mike_D - Member
The biggest one of those has a top tube 5mm longer than an L Soul. Is that enough biggerer for you?

yes i'm aware of that & the added height of seat tube for my longs legs does have an effect.

Ive had a large soul & it just didnt feel quite big enough

tinytim - Member

Hey other Tim, calm down!

I am calm 8)

I am calm

god help us if he gets angry then!

Ive had a large soul & it just didnt feel quite big enough

how is it set up?

I'm bang on the cusp between small and med, Cotic advised me to get a small and I did, not totally convinced.

I started with 660mm bars on a 90mm stem and it felt just wrongly sized, I was convinced I should have got a medium.

Then I messed about a bit and tried 725mm bars on a 70mm stem, it's bang on and there is no way I would want a longer tt (and hence stem shorter or bars narrower).

Cotic actually recommend a short/wide setup somewhere, turns out they were right!

Perhaps you could try that.

I was also advised to go for the small, and to start with was not convinced. Shorter stem and wider bars and all's good.

Surely the XL Soul/Solaris argument shouldn't be based on height? I thought the 26er vs 29er argument was always based around the wheel size and how it rode rather than big wheels are naturally better suited to tall people?

Not that I really give a damn as I'm a small/medium rider. Loved my old Soul but was pushing the boundaries of what I thought it might have been capable of. Wouldn't mind a new BFe though - they look very, very nice...

I think if you consider the reverse of these ponderings you can see the benefit of 29ers if you're tall:

"...we got a couple of 16" [Solaris] frames with top tubes 10mm shorter than the medium (it's the shortest we could go whilst maintaining fork adjuster clearance). Paul was our test rider as he's 5ft 8in and runs a small Soul.

The most surprising thing was that with flat bars we were able to replicate Paul's Soul position pretty easily even with the much longer top tube. However, this was using an inline seatpost rather than layback, and a 60mm stem as opposed to 65mm on the Soul. Paul's done a good few rides on the bike now. Basically it's extremely fast rolling and secure - as you'd expect - but Paul can't really move the bike around. Due to the low BB, larger BB/head tube distance and longer back end, he hasn't got long enough arms and legs to throw his weight outside the wheels. This is compounded by the 29er having a much lower BB relative to the axles than a 26" bike. Seeing him ride, he's almost trapped between the wheels. We've went down to a 50mm stem to push him back a bit on the bike to try and counter this and it helped a bit, but it also made the steering too light and quick.

It's interesting, because Paul's a really talented and able rider, with a trials background, so he can and does move a bike around a lot when riding. He just can't with the 29er, so he doesn't like it. It's not as much fun as the 26" bike. The interesting thing is that once people are this kind of height, the 29" almost seem to define the use of the bike as something quite different to a 26" bike. If Paul wanted a light, comfortable, efficient thing for crossing a map, then the 29er would be good. For having fun and generally enjoying riding bikes, you won't be that surprised to hear he's back on his Soul. This is in total contrast to Cy, who at 6ft 3in didn't feel he needed to adapt much at all to the 29er, but he has long enough levers to get his weight moving outside the wheels."

A larger wheel will roll and grip better offroad but if it's too large compared to the rider then you'll struggle to make it handle direction changes well. The bigger the rider, the more leverage and mass you have available to control the bike so you can take advantage of bigger wheels. FWIW I'm 5'10.5" and am perfectly happy on a Soul, I'm no 29er fanatic.

Also, according to a cursory look on t'interweb, less than 1% of the male population are 6'4" or taller - even amongst MTBing age people it's not a large number! It may also be the case that XL sized riders change bike less frequently because they have fewer opportunities to try different bikes as demo/mates' bikes are usually too small.

yes i'm aware of that & the added height of seat tube for my longs legs does have an effect.

Those are effective top tube measurements. Seat tube is irrelevant. If an L Soul isn't big enough, I'd be surprised if a 20.5 Latitude is -- it's simply not that much bigger a bike.

[b]chiefgrooveguru[/b]:

At 5' 10.5" what size Soul do you ride??

I'm the same size as Cotic Paul and rode a buddy's 29er and felt the same: I'd say Cotic have it bang on in that quote.

26 is right for me, for what I do. My taller riding buddies ride 29ers very well. We both ride what's in proportion and it looks/feels right.

Mike_D - Member
Those are effective top tube measurements. Seat tube is irrelevant. If an L Soul isn't big enough, I'd be surprised if a 20.5 Latitude is -- it's simply not that much bigger a bike.

But i dont want that much bigger a bike & Cy's dimensions for a XL soul arnt much different again. Effective Top Tube is one thing, but that Measurement stays the same no matter what height your saddle is, hense you can read as much or little into it as you like.

When ive been on the (was only once) it felt a better fit, if i dont get on with it, i'll get rid of it, its that simple.

mattjg - Member
god help us if he gets angry then!

a difference of opinion doesnt mean i'm angry, if i was angry I say something like, climb back on your cotic bandwagon & send Cy some love letters you arse lick 😆

Tim - I get the impression from speaking to Cy that every time there's a thread like this, a few people pop up saying they'd 'definitely be interested' in an XL soul. But whenever he makes one, they all vanish.

Ps. You do seem a tad angry... 😉

I'm too short to reach Cy's arse. I thought we had established that.

Brown - Member

Tim - I get the impression from speaking to Cy that every time there's a thread like this, a few people pop up saying they'd 'definitely be interested' in an XL soul. But whenever he makes one, they all vanish.

Ps. You do seem a tad angry.

Im sure he has only made one batch of XL souls & that was in mid 2000's, ie ages ago & surely when the company wasnt as big. I actually get the impression they want you to buy a 29er instead.

If he was to make an XL batch of these new Soul's im pretty sure he would sell enough to make his money back. sure he said it was only x10.

I may seem angry, but I'm fine, poor compunication skills i guess 😉

mattjg - Member

I'm too short to reach Cy's arse. I thought we had established that.

Im sure he kneel's at some point

At 5' 10.5" what size Soul do you ride??

Medium with a 50mm stem and straight post (just like this, before it went 1x10):

[img] [/img]

My sole MTB so it gets used for everything from XC to gravity enduro races and mini DH.

I LOVE MY SOUL

I LOVE MY SOUL

Now that, that is good marketing.

Angry Tim take note.

50mm stem - twitchy surely? Tried a small frame?

Hahahahahahaha.

50mm stem - twitchy surely? Tried a small frame?

Twitchy?! 140mm forks run pretty firm and 28" bars - fashionably rad gnarr! A Soul as if Dirt magazine had built it... 😉