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You respond that the car tax doesn't pay for roads, not even close even if it was hypothecated...
Not to mention that statistically, a cyclist is more likely to own a car than a non-cyclist so they will almost certainly be paying car tax anyway.
the road tax argument will only be good until 2017 🙁
Find out something he is keen on - golf, crown green bowls, whatever, and come up with some bizarre irrational reason for hating participants in those pastimes. Argue loudly.
Maybe the answer to that would be:
"I do pay road tax, commensurate with the pollution I cause"
Since VED or "road tax" is based on that.
Unfortunately they will probably move on to "you aren't insured" or similar
Since VED or "road tax" is based on that.
As above, unfortunately that will be changing...
On the insurance, the answer is that most people have it on their home insurance. A little weak since not everyone has that but it's there and typically they won't accept that the facts back up that damage caused by cyclists is tiny in comparison to that caused by cars.
the road tax argument will only be good until 2017
[s]it's still not road tax.
there is an infinite number of imaginary taxes that i don't pay, 'road tax' is up there with 'pavement tax', or 'toenail tax'.[/s]
hang on, what?!?!?!
(i knew they were pissing about with the boundaries, but blimey...)
yep... It will be road tax. OK, actually 'some road tax' but road tax nonetheless.
@nemesis The Road tax will only apply to vehicles registered from 2017 onwards.
Looking around and according to the Daily Fail (sorry I'll flog myself at dinner time for visiting their site) currently around 25% of vehicles are exempt from VED/road tax which as a figure really surprised me.
Didn't know about the registered after 2017 bit but regardless, it'll still be used against us, especially as more cars are included over the years.
If you have a car though then the argument is still moot as you will be paying just as much tax as him.
If they put the 'road tax' on fuel then it would be true that cyclists weren't paying as much.
Agreed - and there the 86% of cyclists own a car argument comes to the fore...
And as long as zero emission cars are covered then so is a cyclist...
If you have a car though then the argument is still moot as you will be paying just as much tax as him.
Its not about you paying the same tho (in their argument), its that they have had to pay to be on the road vs a bicycle hasnt. The best/correct response (as someone said above) is that you pay commensurate to your pollution, just like current low pollution cars (and electric only post 2017). Whining on about 'road tax dosnt exist' just identifies you havnt really understood the practicalities of the situation.
Also, if you argue 'your right' to be on the road by also owning a car, where does that leave me and the other 14% of cyclists who dont, do you guys want us to f*** off too? talk about cyclist solidarity 😆
That's probably a fair point 😉
I came across a rant about "not paying road tax" that was great. It went along the lines of:
"No I don't pay road tax. Neither do electric vehicles; those of the armed forces; the queen; ...<long list> Which leaves, umm, just you and given the state of the roads round here you obviously aren't paying enough" 🙂
Tongue most definitely firmly in cheek.
do you guys want us to f*** off too?
yes...
Or you should have to pay an appropriate amount based on the amount of your rubber on the road, your vehicle weight, and how much pollution you make, compared to a car...
Would 10p be OK ?
wind him up every now and again
give him a set of these and tell him his wife will love them
[img] 
?w=600[/img]
let his car tyres down then fill the valves with superglue
superglue his wiper blades to the screen
wee/poo in his shoes
if that fails...introduce him to these bad boys:
[img] 
[/img]
The best/correct response (as someone said above) is that you pay commensurate to your pollution, just like current low pollution cars (and electric only post 2017).
The best answer is "if it bothers you so much, buy a bike."
[i]Probably the same as me wishing to kill all motorists because a driver ran a red light one time. [/i]
Not really, when I'm cycling to work I see lots of cyclists jumping red lights, can't remember the last time I saw a car roll up to a red light, check the junction is clear, then go through.
When people come up with the 'I hate cyclists because they jump red lights' argument its difficult to rebuff as in my experience the majority of people on bikes jump red lights on a regular basis.
It's still not a valid reason to hate people who do a certain activity though.
i saw a guy on a motorbike jump a red last night...turning right he then decided to ride over the pedestrian traffic island too...utter bell-end!!
Not really, when I'm cycling to work I see lots of cyclists jumping red lights, can't remember the last time I saw a car roll up to a red light, check the junction is clear, then go through.
Maybe not, but I see plenty of drivers who see the lights go to amber and accelerate hard, shooting through the red.
I think the red light jumping is very variable depending on where you live. There seems to be a definite problem in London but on my commute which has 14 sets of lights I've seen 2 instances in the two years I've been at this job. Of course a minute behind me there could be a cyclist jumping every red light.
I think the red light jumping is very variable depending on where you live. There seems to be a definite problem in London
Last time I was down there I actually thought the opposite. Didn't see much RLJ at all, considering the numbers of cyclists.
When people come up with the 'I hate cyclists because they jump red lights' argument its difficult to rebuff as in my experience the majority of people on bikes jump red lights on a regular basis.
There's [i]way[/i] more important things to dislike in life.. Their minds must be overflowing with poisonous negativity if hate can be attached to a simple action like that.
I bet they break urban 30 limits all the time too, most drivers do ; ) I could dislike drivers for that, if I hadn't also done a share of daft driving in the past.
can't remember the last time I saw a car roll up to a red light, check the junction is clear, then go through
Two issues
1. all this means is they jump red lights in a different way as I have yet to see a cyclist sprint to go through 2 seconds after it went red [ or amber].
2. Given a cyclist can filter to the front to RLJ they get more chance Many cars might do it it is just they cannot get to the point to do it.
FWIW i never see a cyclist breaking the 40 mph speed limit have only ever once seen one texting whilst riding Neither group is perfect but as everyone drives [ and does most of the law breaking at some point] they just ignore the car version and moan about the bike version
[i]I think the red light jumping is very variable depending on where you live. There seems to be a definite problem in London [/i]
I work in Glasgow, there's a lot of traffic lights going through Shawlands/giffnock and I see at least a couple of rlj's on every trip.
I hate car drivers (including myself, of course) because many of them break speed limits.
Not really, when I'm cycling to work I see lots of cyclists jumping red lights, can't remember the last time I saw a car roll up to a red light, check the junction is clear, then go through.
Yes really. Many motorists routinely break the law, whether it's RLJing, speeding or using the phone isn't the issue: hating all motorists as a result would be dumb.
I think you're getting a bit confused there ransos.
My 'not really', was in response to [i]'Probably the same as me wishing to kill all motorists because a driver ran a red light one time.[/i].
I didn't say motorists don't routinely break the law, I'm a driver and I break the law but, in my experience, far more people on bikes jump red lights than people driving cars do.
I'm a driver and I break the law but, in my experience, far more people on bikes jump red lights than people driving cars do.
However, in my experience, far more people speed in cars than RLJ on bikes...
My 'not really', was in response to 'Probably the same as me wishing to kill all motorists because a driver ran a red light one time..
I think you're confused: the point is that hating all motorists because of a specific instance of law breaking would be dumb.
Cyclists jumping red lights is at least in part because so many junctions are badly designed.
How come in America they can go right on a red, yet we seem unable to do so?
How come in America they can go right on a red, yet we seem unable to do so?
Don't know, has it got anything to do with guns?
If they do it in America, it's unlikely to be a good idea.
Anyone starting the nobody pays Road tax has lost the argument already by being a pedant.
Not really, if it is a larger part of a persons hatred towards cyclists being on the road. It needs to be explained that they are not avoiding a tax and have the same rights on the road as drivers. Paying a tax does not give a right.
Anyway, you won't win an argument with someone like the person mention here. It is like arguing with a racist - there belief/hatred has cannot be explained.
How come in America they can go right on a red, yet we seem unable to do so?
Have you ever been there? All traffic can turn right on red unless it says not to. The reason is that many junctions are huge, wide open, unobstructed by buildings and you can see all around. Plus they were planned for cars. So it makes sense for that to be the default. It's also common to see 'no turn on red' though so for junctions where you can't see - so it's not universal.
Most of our junctions were never planned, they evolved. And where they have been planned, you often get filters, which is our equivalent of a junction without a 'no turn on red' sign. It's just not the default.
I didn't say motorists don't routinely break the law, I'm a driver and I break the law but, in my experience, far more people on bikes jump red lights than people driving cars do.
The key expression here being 'in my experience'. Anecdote is not representative of the behaviour of a whole group and is not data - anecdotes are usually told to justify existing prejudice and reflect confirmation bias. We've learnt that just because a local drug dealer was a black man that not all black men are drug dealers but a significant proportion of UK population seem unable to grasp simple facts about bias when it comes to cyclists... almost like evolution's gone into reverse!
More importantly, any UK driver who justifies their hate towards people riding bikes on the basis 'they break the law' is a rank hypocrite and needs to grow up and fix their own behaviour first if they really care about road safety...
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11566026/How-is-your-driving-Half-of-drivers-admit-breaking-traffic-laws.html ]50% of UK drivers admit to breaking the speed limit[/url]
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10780690/Almost-half-of-motorists-admit-to-talking-on-phone-while-driving.html ]50% of UK drivers admit to using their mobile[/url]
There was a piece on last night's Look North (the Yorkshire one) where it was claimed that over 50% of all drivers had defective vision. The data came from ASDA opticians, I don't know how many they had tested.
I remember from some years ago, Devon & Cornwall police had an eyesight test stand at a county show and got a figure of around 35% defective vision sufficiently bad to nullify insurance and that they shouldn't drive.
How come in America they can go right on a red, yet we seem unable to do so?
Good answers above but also they drive on the right. If anything we would want to go left on a red, not right which would take you across the traffic.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/27/27000-uninsured-cars-seized-by-police-this-year ]27,000 uninsured cars seized by Police this year[/url]
Another stat for the OP to email to his idiot colleague... who no doubt will continue to insist that a few people on bikes running red lights are the biggest problem in UK road safety...
Await the moment he falls asleep drunk at the office party...then take a dump in his mouth...
me again. I already replied on page one or something and my recommendation is still to ignore him if he's being pleasant and hasn't raised it with you.
However another approach you can use which I sometimes use with people who bandy around lazy stereotypes about cyclists is to throw stereotypes back against them e.g.
- to the bloke in the German car who makes some comment to me during my commute "I'm surprised that a BMW/Audi/Mercedes car driver even saw a cyclist"
- to the girl at work who accuses all cyclists of jumping red lights "yeah well all you drivers/pedestrians are on there mobile phones anyway"
- to anyone telling me I'm not insured "looking at all the police roadblocks around London it looks like none of the car drivers are insured either"
- to the miserable dog walkers who moan about me being off-road " Well at least i don't leave dog sh*t all over the place/where's your black bag, you weren't going to leave it on the ground were you? or my latest one "where's your dog licence?" (yes I know they no longer exist, that's kinda the point)
Oh and there's always
- to the taxi driver as we both watch a cyclist jump a light who says to me 'that's why people hate cyclists";
"just cos we both ride bikes doesn't mean he's my friend"
and on and on. Depends how argumentative I'm feeling.
Start a vegan diet - stand next to his desk - fart loud and proud then walk away.
A reason why people are more inclined to jump a red light on a bike is the punishment (or lack of) versus doing the same in a car.
Combined with the low potential for any serious impact in doing so.
And only guessing but a lot of red light jumping is at pedestrian crossings rather than crossroads so you can see it is all clear so pretty safe to go across (as it is in a car but back to the first point for that)
don't forget London rules apply to drivers for lights:
- Green means Go
- Amber means Go
- Red means 'oh go on then, just five more cars'
(thanks and royalties go to Jo Brand for that one)
[url=
n's take on traffic lights[/url]
I remind this college that cyclists are human beings and hatred of other people for a lifestyle choice is akin to racism and deeply frowned upon in the workplace. Behaviour of an employee on the way to work and home again is often taken by employers quite seriously. That's a polite reminder from him to respect you on the road.