What is the problem with spending about 20 seconds or so in the middle of a long muddy mountain bike ride to reapply a bit of lube? My chain, mech and cassette are in much better condition than they used to be using traditional lubes, which have their own issues on wet muddy rides too and wouldn’t last a long muddy ride with good performance either.
I think he just finds it extraordinary that Squirt works well rather than that you re-lube mid-ride?
andylc - or you could use a proper wax designed for much harsher conditions and only relube every few rides?
Relubing mid ride? thats a useless lube
What is the problem with spending about 20 seconds or so in the middle of a long muddy mountain bike ride to reapply a bit of lube?
it's a bit of a faff, I'd rather re-lube once every three or four such rides than in the middle of one. To me, a lube I have to re-apply in the middle of a ride is a lube that isn't good.
it’s a bit of a faff, I’d rather re-lube once every three or four such rides than in the middle of one. To me, a lube I have to re-apply in the middle of a ride is a lube that isn’t good.
But what if the putolines runs out in the middle of your 10th ride? Unless it is also magic enough to only run out after a ride
I also use Molten Speed Wax if you check my post. This lasts ages on a road bike but nowhere near as long on a mountain bike. I don’t find you can use MSW wax alone on a mountain bike unless you’re happy removing and treating every few rides.
But what if the putolines runs out in the middle of your 10th ride? Unless it is also magic enough to only run out after a ride
it doesn't "run out" suddenly - it slowly works its way out of the chain. check before each ride and you can easily tell if it will last another
But what if the putolines runs out in the middle of your 10th ride?
It just gets gradually slightly less smooth so that you think 'mm yeah I'll probably do it before the next one' but it's not crucial. This takes anywhere between say 4 absolutely shitty sodden rides or 6 months, but it's measured in months until it's a gritty mess rather than minutes.
Thing is, even if you splatter the chain with mud it doesn't really get gritty and grindy. Not exactly sure how, I think maybe that there's enough wax all over it to repel the water. It's a strange sensation ploughing through slop with a silent chain, but it's what happens.
Thing is, I've been MTBing for 30 years and in that time I've tried everything to try and get lube to keep working through a wet ride, and not end up with a grinding gritty chain, including oddball techniques and even home-made stuff. Hot waxes are by far and away the most effective, and it's really obvious how. It's soft semi-sticky wax that gets inside your chain - how can that NOT be much more effective than oil?
Of course, you may not want to do the frying thing, and that's fine, it's totally up to you. But no-one who's tried it will say it doesn't last longer and lube better than a light oil.
molgrips - I think that is because there is nowhere for the grit to grind - all the spaces are full of wax so no grit gets into the rollers
Quite possibly yes, good hypothesis.
Putoline a day or so after a muddy ride.
Yup - a bit of external rust - happens if you have peaty soils IMO - a wipe down with an oily rag and it will be fine. I bet there is still plenty in the rollers where the lubrication is actually needed
That is also my experience - it's cosmetic. Chains still last ages despite that.
No issues with a mid-ride lube, but it won't do anything using Squirt as unless you let it dry in a bit, then it will just be flicked off after the next few minutes of riding.
I've been using Squirt for about 10 years or so now and really rate it. A friend has tried it but hasn't changed his method of lubing the chain - which is a liberal application right as we leave his house - by the time we get out the housing estate (about a 500 yard trip) his chain has thrown all the Squirt lube off and his chain is sound very dry after about 2 miles. Whereas, my chain was lubed the night before and doesn't sound awful.
Good news for me is he has given me his supply of Squirt as he doesn't rate it.
TBH for me the big thing about putoline is that it always works. There's no "wet lube or dry lube", no conditions it doesn't like especially, you don't go for a ride in the wrong sort of mud and have it totally fail, and even the absolute worst conditions I ever ride in can't kill it in a day- hideous scottish enduros and the like. There's no other product that comes close to that ime. Maybe other similar waxes- not squirt though.
scotroutes
Full MemberSquirt is a classic example. I’ve seen lots of folk recommend it, I was given a free bottle, tried it, and found that I could piss longer-lasting chain lube. I can only surmise that different riding conditions, soil types and lubing strategies come into play but there is no way I can replicate all of those myself.
I got on great with it, til I didn't, and then it was really bad. Very on/off.
Agree ref letting Squirt dry in an ideal world. However if you dot it carefully on the inner surface of the chain it doesn’t fly off. I just do it half way through a long ride at the same time as stopping for a Mars bar - other chocolate bars are available.
No issues with a mid-ride lube, but it won’t do anything using Squirt as unless you let it dry in a bit, then it will just be flicked off after the next few minutes of riding.
The Zero Friction guy really rates Smoove as a sort of 'like Squirt but better' drip-on lube option, but to get the results he did, you first have to clean the chain as per immersive waxing, then apply it by pre-warming both chain and lube and drying overnight. All of which makes sense, even if it's a faff.
More interestingly, he rates it as a between waxing top-up lube for chains already waxed with MSW or similar. I get that this is obsessive stuff from someone clearly micro-focussed on chain lubrication, but he's gone into a ridiculous level of testing and analysis, which is arguably what you want if you're looking at optimising your chain performance.
I started waxing chains because I go so sick of the endless grinding gritty slurry here in the Peak just destroying drivetrains and the utter uselessness of conventional oil-type lubes round here. So far I'm really liking the whole waxing thing. If your style of maintenance is to hose the bike down and dribble something onto the chain before throwing it in the shed, that's fair enough, but given the cost of cassettes in particular and the sheer pleasantness of having a smooth drive train, I'm a convert.
If your style of maintenance is to hose the bike down and dribble something onto the chain before throwing it in the shed, that’s fair enough
One reason I wax is because I find it far LESS work than wet lube, because it needs doing infrequently. Now I just hose the bike down in seconds and that's it. Clean well lubed bike.
The rusty chain thing is why I could never hand-on-heart say that Putoline is 'less faff' as my routine always involves a quick rinse with the hose after a wet ride to get anything corrosive off the chain (salt/peaty soil/whatever) then the wipe with an oily rag. Is still easy enough to do before you even put the bike away and it's worth it for the performance.
I do very much hand-on-heart swear by the extended life that Putoline (and presumably MSW) offers. I actually attempted to go back to drip lube last winter so stripped the chain back to bare metal (multiple soakings in white spirit etc.) and applied some Juice Lubes Viking Juice instead. I can't comment on the performance of the Viking Juice, as after half a ride I realised how shockingly worn the chain was, to the point that it was trying to chain suck on the equally worn 1x narrow wide chainring! I re-applied the Putoline and all the problems went away and I'm still using the same drivetrain to date with no ill effects.
(and for what it's worth I also like Squirt, I think it needs a couple of applications to properly build up on the chain, and once applied I'll never wash or rinse the chain but just wipe clean before more applications. I don't use it for regular wet or off-road riding though)
I was going to give Smoove a try when my current bottle runs out.
Hot waxing intermittently with added small amounts of wax lube works well imho. Nothing is perfect but my chain, cassette and mechs are in much better condition these days than they used to be with various different wet lubes over the years, not to mention it’s much cleaner to deal with when maintaining the bike.
I don’t think MSW has the durability of Putoline but it’s much cleaner.
I'm a putoline user and my after ride cleaning consists of nothing more than a hose down. I used to get a few rust spots on the chain and cassette but found that a quick run through a dry cloth to take off excess water combined with flicking the chain to get any trapped water out has stopped that.
Re: Squirt / Smoove. Tests shown that it only really gets properly into the rollers if you heat the lube and chain (hair dryer easiest), then apply day before, rotating chain for a long time to work it in (spinning like 3-4mins).
Re: lubing whilst out. Silca have shown that this is actually worse than running a chain with no lube as you just introduce loose shit into the drivetrain into an abrasive paste that saps Watts and destroys your chain. Just don't do it.
The rusty chain thing is why I could never hand-on-heart say that Putoline is ‘less faff’
I find I only get the rusty chain when riding in pretty wet conditions. A hose down of summer mud splatters doesn't do it. I've not touched any chain for a couple of months and I might do it once this summer on each bike.
Comparing wet lube after every ride vs Putoline isn't really like for like though. You aren't keeping a chain lubed with a quick dribble vs a deep fry. The quick dribble is only covering the first half hour or so in wet conditions, or even less depending on where your first really muddy section is, but the deep frying is properly protecting it all ride.
I always love the opinions and debate around all this. It’s difficult to know who is right as we all ride in different conditions, store and clean our bikes in different ways. Putoline has more oil content than most of the cycling based waxes, that’s what gives it a bit of a sticky texture compared to some other waxes. I’ve tested so many different formulas and originally thought a softer wax would be better for off road, it hasn’t worked out that way though as it seems to work out from between pins and rollers/shoulders where it’s needed most. I’ve added an additive to a blend of waxes and I think I’m happy with it. Making it presentable and cost effective is the difficult part. If any of you fancy trying a local small scale enterprise please look it up on instagram and touch base with me, even if it is just to argue! Look up GLF chain wax and apologies for the shameless promotion but it’s a topic I love looking into
I’ve no idea what the fascination on here is with various magical kinds of lubricants and whatever
I didn't get past the cleaning part.
Has anyone found an ultrasonic cleaners that’ll fit an Eagle cassette or similar size item which doesn’t cost the earth?
Allegedly they come up well if you chuck em in the dishwasher - but time that carefully 😀
Allegedly they come up well if you chuck em in the dishwasher – but time that carefully 😀
I tried that once. She was away for the weekend so I didn't incur more than the routine daily level of wrath, but the anodising on my cassette didn't do too well. Pick your tablets wisely, perhaps?
but the anodising on my cassette didn’t do too well. Pick your tablets wisely, perhaps?
Most dishwasher tablets are highly caustic as that's the best thing for breaking up fats, proteins etc. It will also dissolve aluminum (and anodizing is part of the aluminum). The anodizing won't affect it's structural integrity, but I'd be worried about things like where the sprockets are riveted to the carrier, if the tolerances open up slightly then they could start move and creak/wear/fail.
You're probably better just brushing on neat degreaser with a stiff paintbrush and washing it off.
Toothbrush or a nail brush and a bit of white spirits, you only need to do that once if you are switching to wax as they stay very clean after that.
If you are using white spirits as a chain degreaser remember you’ll need a couple of rinses with methylated spirits or IPA afterwards if waxing.
I used a caustic cleaner in an ultrasonic bath on am old aluminium stem. Yeah, that was a bad idea, luckily it was destined for destruction anyway (I was cleaning it to bring out a fatigue failure) but if it was a good stem it would have been an expensive mistake.
Is there any way to remove the excess Putoline wax as possible since it causes more grinding noise on narrow wide chainrings due accumulation of sand. This summer the bike seems to attract sand more than usual despite prolonged rain which in theory should keep more sand particles and dust on the ground.
Might try degreasing the chain and putting small amount of wax on rollers before heating it up with a heat gun.
