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As I understand it the race was held with the promise to leave the trails as they found them.
The race was held on private Forestry Commission land. As Bike Blairadam no longer exists as an intermediary between riders and the Forestry Commission, I'm not sure who to refer the complaint to. The students say they had received advice from someone in authority to hold the race and determine the route. There should therefore be joint liability between the students and their advisor to reinstate the trails to their pre race condition at their own expense, not using funds raised elsewhere for future trail building projects raised by Bike Blairadam.
Don't worry, we'll be going down there. We're going to get ourselves down there as soon as possible and will do all we can to repair them.
The trails will be back to normal by Easter, however I'm not sure how best to fix them. The club will be going down to dig this week.
This is good news. Thanks Munrobiker.
Any chance of some recent pics of the trails now the weather has improved to see how they look now?
nick1962 - Member
Any chance of some recent pics of the trails now the weather has improved to see how they look now?
Maybe this weekend or next. Can you not pop up and take some yourself?
The club will be going down to dig this week.
When are you going to be there? Can pop along to lend a hand if I'm not racing/training/resting that day.
Fortunateson09 - MemberI'm curious to know what repairs you would expect a 'responsible' race organiser to do if trails were left in that condition?
You hold a race, the trail gets a bit chopped up, what do you do about it? Genuine question.
Would a 'responsible' race organiser have left the trails in they state they are?
The thing is, you need to be proactive, like Bike: Blairadam were and take preventative action before your race. You put type 1 down on sensitive areas to ensure they don't get too damaged by the increased traffic. You try to ensure it doesn't happen (or is as limited as possible) in the first place....
As has been touched upon in this thread, you also make some calls on the day on what sections to use and reroute if necessary. Get people riding the course on the day to see what is working, what isn't and what has the potential to turn out badly. If, for example, there's a flat section thats wet or waterlogged after some rain, it may be best to avoid it.
You have to have a Plan B in case your first choice course has issues.
This sort of thing is what the student organiser/permit holder should have perhaps done on the day or in the run up to the event.
Then, immediately (or as close to immediately) post event, you repair where you can and make appropriate repairs where possible. Re-lay type 1, dig out and/or fill in ruts that have appeared and so on. If a section is waterlogged and muddy, try to drain it if possible and get rid of the wettest mud. Hell, if need be, set up reroutes around affected sections to allow them to recover.
Tiberius, do you fancy a spin around Blairadam tomorrow evening or late tomorrow afternoon?
Any body know if the students have done any repairs yet?
mcmoonter - Member
Tiberius, do you fancy a spin around Blairadam tomorrow evening or late tomorrow afternoon?
Sorry, I can't. I'm working tomorrow (and then all weekend. 🙁 )
jamesy01 - Member
Any body know if the students have done any repairs yet?
I went to check their website for any news on this but it seems to be down.
[url= http://staucc.co.uk/ ]http://staucc.co.uk/[/url]
Looks like it's up and running again....for a minute I was thinking they'd done a moonlight flit 😀
So, Munrobiker, did you ever go back?
So, Munrobiker, did you ever go back?
Based on what I saw on my last visit I'd say no, but I'm be happy to be proved wrong. 🙂
The trails will be back to normal by Easter
Easter 2011?
Dougal - Member
There is the option to take this further...Luke and the St Andrews University Cycling Club were organising the event on behalf of Scottish University Sports. I'm sure they'd be interested to hear about the poor legacy that has been left at the event location. http://www.susport.org.uk/
The St Andrews Sports Union might also like to hear about how one of their member clubs is bringing their name into disrepute. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/sport/au/
I'll just leave those there.
Time to draft some e-mails?
jamesy01 - Member
Looks like it's up and running again....for a minute I was thinking they'd done a moonlight flit
Maybe they have.
The "UH OH - the STW massive are on yer backs..." thread on their website has been removed too. ❓
imo a lot of the photos you have taken of the trails look fairly pathetic and what i would call i woodland trail anyway, some muddy areas in a pine forest after some rain? flippin heck i would never have guessed!
I agree there seems to be some post race work needing to be done it sounds like your being a bit pathetic and just looking to have a go at some students because they are students!
Time to draft some e-mails?
Should we make collective complaint to the two bodies above or complain individually? How about a ride up there to discuss it?
anus - Member
imo a lot of the photos you have taken of the trails look fairly pathetic and what i would call i woodland trail anyway, some muddy areas in a pine forest after some rain? flippin heck i would never have guessed!
I'm sorry that you've not been able to read the thread properly (were you busy congratulating yourself on such a well thought out and humourous ID?) or visit the forest to see the damage yourself. I'm assuming that you're familiar with the forest, yes?
Maybe you could try to do one or both of these before commenting again?
I agree there seems to be some post race work needing to be done it sounds like your being a bit pathetic and just looking to have a go at some students because they are students!
So you agree, but just want to hurl childish insults and contradict yourself? That's great. thanks for your contribution.
Maybe the sponsors would be interested?
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geoffj - Member
Maybe the sponsors would be interested?
I hadn't thought of that.
mcmoonter - MemberTime to draft some e-mails?
Should we make collective complaint to the two bodies above or complain individually? How about a ride up there to discuss it?
I'd say individually, but that's just my opinion.
i read the whole thread through and the more i read the more it seemed you were all over reacting, the photos that you have provided people who do not know the forest personally suggest a trail that is not to distant from a usual forest trail, hence your rants and complaints seem over the top and seemingly pathetic. I agree there needs to be some work done, but nothing to the extent you are all winging about. it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are [b]always [/b]in the wrong.
It's exam time/end of year deadlines/start of summer projects (at least at Edinburgh Uni), therefore I would give them a little slack until the end of the month.
While I can understand your frustration that nothing has been done yet, nothing will be achieved by putting pressure on them at the moment, and I think contacting sponsors etc. at a time when students simply do not have the time to do anything about it, is not fair (regardless of their perceived attitudes to-date). The Edinburgh Uni club have stopped regular club rides at the moment due to exams, and I imagine St. Andrews will be the same. Wait until June before hassling them again.
Anus
it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are always in the wrong. it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are always in the wrong.
The complaint would be the same if the event had been run by the WI.
Kit, the repairs should have been undertaken immediatly after the event. Students have exams then go off home or elsewhere for the summer. I was a student once too.
From the responses on here and elsewhere, neither the students nor their 'Blairadam' contact has taken any meaningful steps to repair the trails to their pre event condition.
I'm drafting a letter as we speak, and I would urge other Blairadam users to consider doing this too. Its a great forest, with challenging trails that is well used by its local community of riders, many of whom have had hand in buildng and maintaining the trails on a voluntary basis.
The event damage was bad enough, but a seasons rain has compounded the initial damage and made it a whole lot worse.
Kit, the repairs should have been undertaken immediatly after the event.
I agree! And action to-date appears to be piss poor. But any correspondence to the student body at this time will simply be ignored as they have more pressing (yes, can you believe it!) matters.
And to correspond with sponsors at a time when the students are not able to actually do anything strikes me as a wee bit underhand.
Considering that as far as I can tell no one has emailed the club officially to ask them to fix it its not surprising that nothings been done. Complaining to SUS and the sponsors seems very silly when like Kit mentions this time of year there's no chance of anything getting done and when (afaik) no one has contacted them other than through this forum?
According to someone on mtbfife the trails really arnt all that bad either?
"Yes, the trails were muddy (it's not Blairadam without mud, after all), but under the surface mud the base of the trail was pretty solid. I came off after a couple of hours with a big grin on my face; I'll be back very soon."
'It's pointless complaining becuase I can't do anything about it [b]right this minute[/b]'.
What a load of crock. I must try it at work sometime, just for the giggles.
I think the fact peeps havn't heard anything, means they're hoping the issue will go away of its own accord. Get it back on the radar for after exams, and get some real committment to fixing stuff up.
Or they could grow some, repeat that they had permission to race there and they don't think the damage is that bad, if that is what they think. Offer to lend a hand as a gesture of goodwill. That is what I'd probably do, TBH.
With the time you have spent moaning on here, you could have fixed the trails yourselves. Fact.
McMoonter - I know the chap in real life. I know he has been doing exams and stuff but I suspect you will need to put pressure on both him and the university. email me if you need more details but try to get to him thru the uni first.
I think contacting sponsors etc. at a time when students simply do not have the time to do anything about it, is not fair (regardless of their perceived attitudes to-date).
Perhaps, but just perhaps one of the sponsors (maybe a bike shop with a branch in St Andrews) may have enough influence to get something going.
And let's face it, they may have exams coming up, but they are still likely to be putting in fewer hours than folk with work and family commitments.
And if they are doing finals the only hold the uni might have is to stop them qualifying until the damage is repaired
Just got a text from him; says he has read the thread on STW and is fleeing to Chile.
If you rush to Edinburgh airport, you just might catch him.
Perhaps, but just perhaps one of the sponsors (maybe a bike shop with a branch in St Andrews) may have enough influence to get something going.And let's face it, they may have exams coming up, but they are still likely to be putting in fewer hours than folk with work and family commitments.
Can I ask what the whole contacting sponsors will achieve?
I'd also argue that at the moment most of my uni friends are working 8-11pm (don't know how they do it) Although I've just handed my dissertation in and haven't slept for 38 hours fun times!
I hope this thread continues for a while it's becoming a study in over-reaction.
Its hardly over reaction. Check the date of the beginning of the thread The St Andrews mtb club held an event on public land and (poorly advised) made a mess of it. They promised to repair it months ago but have so far done nothing.
If I was a Blairadam regular I would have already made formal compliant to the university. I think the people whose work was trashed have been fairly relaxed
Presumably this race was run under a standard, formal permission from FC? That permission would tell you whether there was any requirement in there to carry out work to repair trails to conditions prior to the event.
FC should be able to supply that permission on request.
TandemJeremy - MemberI think the people whose work was trashed have been fairly relaxed
Agreed. Two of the people behind Bike: Blairadam have appeared on the thread but mainly to answer questions about the group, not get involved with the debate..
In fact, contrary to what was stated on here, the five core people are still working together.... I ride with some of them.
mcmoonter - Member
I got the impression the organisation behind BikeBlairadam imploded at a critical point after the Blast when the clear felling took place.
Imploded? I'd love to know who gave you that impression, what with it being completely untrue.
Imploded? I'd love to know who gave you that impression, what with it being completely untrue.
Tiberius, the implosion was just an observation from a distance. I doubt the departure of one committee member before the Blast would have had much of a detrimental impact.
My point was that the dissolution was at a critical point when there was some momentum behind the trail building day enthusiasm and that there was cash (generated from the Blast) in the bank to build some more. The clear felling could have been seen as a positive opportunity to reopen or reroute some trails and construct more.
Can't believe this is still running. IMO it's not really about the 'damaged' trails anymore is it** it's more about a 'not on my patch' point of view taken up by the regular Blairadam users. A bit peeved that some outsiders have come and made use of their patch of public land (irony?). How dare they...
Sorry, but there just seem to be some mega contradictions in this. I'm hearing talk of damage to fragile trail structures on one hand but on another hand talking about laying down tonnes of type 1 hardcore !!!??
And the question has been raised but not answered as far as I can see -how do you return a natural forest to 'how you left it' after you've ridden there? While Im sure we all try to minimise our interference with the natural surroundings there is not one of us can be so sanctimonuous as to say we return it to how it was. Because to do that 'literally' would mean going back over all your tyre tracks and smoothing them in. WTF? Or alternatively only riding when bone dry. Which would preculde riding Blairadam for 95% of the year in my experience.
** The damage wasn't so bad was it? I made a comment on the first page of this thread suggesting the reaction was a bit over-egged. I saw nothing in the trail damage when riding the forest thereafter to make me change that point of view. It just looked heavily used, commensurate with the weather conditions at the time. Nothing that wouldn't simply dry out.
You could rename this thread 'the regular riders of blairadam wouldn't like other people and outsiders coming using the trails when it's wet, thankyou'...and that would be closer to home. And maybe there's nothing wrong with that but at least it's closer to the mark?
mcmoonter - Memberthe implosion was just an observation from a distance. I doubt the departure of one committee member before the Blast would have had much of a detrimental impact
A very incorrect observation for one. Also, none of the committee left before the blast.
I do wonder where you're getting all this incorrect info from.
Nearllyman - the race organisers admit to the trail damage and promised to repair it. They have not done so.
Tandem Jeremy (I'll resist the temptation not to modify your username as you did mine lol) - the question remains repair it how? Hardcore? How about a 1:4 sand cement mix trowelled over or even better just tarmac over the tyre ruts.
As I said. This isn't about the damage. It's about people feeling their back yard has been shown a lack of respect and it would be better if they just cut to the chase rather than making it into something it isn't.
And the damage probably can't be repaired without causing more consequent damage because it's a SOAKING WET FOREST at the best of times. And it's also now months old and been over-ridden a 100 times since.
Anyway I suspect you don't ride Blairadam much and haven't seen what's being discussed. Why you choose to get involved is beyond me. Any crusade eh!? 🙂
Neallyman - you've missed the point of this whole tread.
I for one welcome, and have guided new riders around the trails at Blairadam. There is a difference between going out for a ride with your mates and organising a mass prticipation event. The responsibilities are completely different.
The issue is about responsibility and accountability.
Blairadam is not in one of the leafier quarters of the Kingdom. Its one of the few places local riders can get out and ride from nearby Kelty etc. What type of example does it set when students from an affluent University town come, trash their trails and bugger off?
Blairadam is not in one of the leafier quarters of the Kingdom. Its one of the few places local riders can get out and ride from nearby Kelty etc. What type of example does it set when students from an affluent University town come, trash their trails and bugger off?
Broad generalisation and stereotype re St Andrews isn't it? Where does affluence come into the context of damaged trails...
Again I think we're getting closer to the heart of the real issue here. In saying what you are saying re affluence etc you're just backing up the message I'm trying to get across. The actual trail damage isn't what this is about. It's about the local riders feeling like they've been shown a lack of respect by 'student toffs' and so it's rubbing them up the wrong way.
For what it's worth if I saw Blairadam as my patch I'd probably feel the same way!
And I have no allegance to the students in anyway, I just don't like that the real 'beef' here (a perceived lack of respect)is being wrapped up in a thinly veiled complaint about ground being damaged.
Im a 31year old son a miner of a miner of a miner from Oakley by the way. So if I ride the trails at Blairadam are the tyre tracks I leave behind more worthy? 😉
I find it interesting that this thread re-started following rain in Fife. A little searching and you will find that almost every review of Blairadam will say its muddy regardless of when (time of year or date) the review was written.
And when did mud hurt a mountain biker anyway?