[Closed] Are we going to see a 3" tyre craze (that requires new frame, fork and wheels)?

I don't get why you would want high profile tyres on a full suspension bike like that specialized when you have masses of controlled/damped suspension travel - tyres are undamped. All you are doing is increasing tyre roll in corners.

Where as something like procore will give you better grip at lower weights with less tyre roll and better suspension performance because of the progressive nature of the spring rate in the tyre.

Especially on muddy english trails? Why the hell would you want something that floats on mud, whenever we rode muddy tracks at UK DH races we swapped to thin swampies etc to cut through the mud.

Fat bikes have a very narrow defined use and they are great for that - bringing fat bike style tyres over to normal mtb bikes smacks of pure marketing BS.

We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.

[quote=Tom_W1987 ]I don't get why you would want high profile tyres on a full suspension bike like that specialized when you have masses of controlled/damped suspension travel - tyres are undamped. All you are doing is increasing tyre roll in corners.
Where as something like procore will give you better grip at lower weights with less tyre roll and better suspension performance because of the progressive nature of the spring rate in the tyre.
Especially on muddy english trails? Why the hell would you want something that floats on mud, whenever we rode muddy tracks at UK DH races we swapped to thin swampies etc to cut through the mud.
Fat bikes have a very narrow defined use and they are great for that - bringing fat bike style tyres over to normal mtb bikes smacks of pure marketing BS.
We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.
Sounds perfect to me. When can I buy them?

I've got a 2.7 highroller somewhere- I quite like it, because it's a 2.5 and I'd got annoyed about buying 2.5 highrollers and discovering they were 2.35s (and doubly annoyed that the 2.35 failed to be 2.1, continuing the trend)

The semi-skimmed Ragley on here a few days ago looked mint, quite fancy trying that.

Jesus we did this back in 01-03'ish with Nokian and Intense too? It was shit then. Peeps bought them prob to look more motocrosslite. Sensible progression? Jesus sweet child of Nazareth.

Stop. Riders and non-riders will point and laugh at you and say 'can't afford a MX or ride one'?

We used to be able to get 2.6/2.7? DH tyres back in the day (can't remember what they were) and no one ever bothered running them - 2.5 was more than enough. Big tyres didn't give you better times, they just allowed newbies that needed to learn how to ride to get down the track without coming off.

I can remember back in the day when 1.8 was normal and 2.1 was big. Marketing obviously ruined bikes before you even started.

And again if you are worried about people pointing and laughing you probably shouldn't be a 40something beardy chubby Lycra wearer on a bicycle.

You've just described all Hebden Bridge riders (and the males)

Hora is right about the Nokian era of '01-'03....2.6-3.0 tyres were tried and were crap, too heavy and draggy and people moved back to 2.5 or less.

When the DH World Cup guys can do amazing things on tyres that are 2.3-2.5 i'm struggling to think exactly what a larger tyre will offer me?

I dont live in the Alps...or book an uplift every weekend, i live in the fairly flat South-East and need my tyres to be easy to pedal....grinding round on a fat tyre fashion statement does not appeal, i like my bikes to be agile and as effortless to pedal as possible, like a lot of people i run a narrower rear for this very reason...fat, semi-skimmed, 650b+ or whatever guff its being called this week is a great example of style over substance.

deviant - Member

When the DH World Cup guys can do amazing things on tyres that are 2.3-2.5 i'm struggling to think exactly what a larger tyre will offer me?

Maybe something different that isn't for dh world cup? There's tons of stuff we use that they don't, if I ever become a dh world cup racer I'll worry about that, in the same way as I don't worry about what tyres Lewis Hamilton uses when I need something for my family estate car.

While I can't see me ever going full fat, for many of the trails I ride in the highlands of Scotland a lightweight tyre that has a bigger footprint and therefore reduces trail erosion and (visible) impact of bikes on fragile and/or heavily used environments, while improving traction and the ability to traverse deep boggy ground, sounds like a great idea.

Not everyone rides DH, nor are you going to be forced to buy fatter tyres. I wouldn't use them on a DH track either (or trail centre for that matter) but for the right purpose they sound ideal.

Not all change is bad (although, for the record, I think 650b is marketing bollocks).

Nasher,

Can I get a shot of the chainstay clearance on that Enduro.

And maybe a profile shot of the bike too?

Fat, semi-skimmed, 650b+ or whatever guff its being called this week is a great example of style over substance.

Or, depending on your views on such things, it's fantastic that our chosen pastime is so diverse, and we are willing to try different technologies available to us. Thank god for choices.

Edit - apologies, I shouldn't really have read past this bit -

Hora is right

I think that looks interesting Nasher. Reminds me of when 24" conversions were being tried on 26" DH bikes but with much higher profile tyres to make up the size difference.

And look at all those 24 inch wheeled fat tyred bikes we see around at the mom....oh wait.

Just a few months ago the anti 650b brigade were saying that 26 to 27.5 was a pointless move because by putting a large tyre on a 26 you could get roughly to the size of a 650b anyway....this was then shouted down by people who quite rightly said that having a fat tyre on a 26 was less desirable than a lower profile on a 650b because the fat tyre is effectively undamped suspension and the tyre deflects too much providing an unstable platform.

Now the industry would have you believe that actually this is a good thing!

....if you're thinking of trying 650b+ just by a 29er.

The overall wheel/tyre diameters will i'm sure be roughly the same and you'll actually have a tyre that fits, doesnt bounce off everything or deform horribly at low pressures etc etc

It won't really take off until there are plenty of decent tyres available. So hopefully soon!

....if you're thinking of trying 650b+ just by a 29er.

The overall wheel/tyre diameters will i'm sure be roughly the same and you'll actually have a tyre that fits, doesnt bounce off everything or deform horribly at low pressures etc etc

Theory and practice rarely align really well. For some stuff Plus size tyres might be great, they will be rubbish for others. I doubt you'll see B+ winning high level Enduros but there's a lot of people buying bikes who DGAS about who does what in racing or what tech is good this season.

+1 futon river crossing

3 years in to 29+ we don't exactly have a mind boggling selection of 29"x3" tyres & 40mm+ rims to choose from. 😐

There's a lot of angry angry people on here...

Went riding on Xmas day in Thetford forest (was lovely) and a chap passed me riding a fatty. He looked to be having a lot of fun and it did leave cool tyre tracks, which is always awesome.

I'd like to have a go on one. I'd like to have a go on 29er+ and 650b+ just to see what they're like too. You don't have to buy them, and they're not going to take over the world.

I quite like the idea of lots of different wheel sizes and tyre widths. Choice innit. Bottom Bracket standards on the other hand....

Some of us tried it before. Its not anger its amusement.

I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.

Absolutely loving my Stooge right now. Currently has a 3" upfront with a 2.4" rear both on 45mm rims.
Thinking about a 650b+ in the back but I'm pretty sure it's upfront where the benefits are dealt.

Some of us tried it before. Its not anger its amusement.

You didn't though, did you - you had 26inch nokian which was utterly terrible, in the league of a Tioga DH and IRC missile. Heavy, stiff casings with monster truck type tread. Awful.

You also didn't have tubeless which makes a huge difference on these larger casings.

And from what I've heard Hora, you couldn't ride out of sight on a dark night so I'll base my opinions on having actually ridden these before writing them off as 'wannabe Motocross' or whatever nonsense you spouted up there...

EDIT:

For reference, a Nokian Gazzaloddi in a 3 inch flavour weighs in at just shy of 1.7kgs. Each. Thats nearly 4lbs. Per. Tyre. And then you have to add in the crazy heavy DH inner tube, which is around 500g each end.

Tbh ..the more choice of bikes the better ....nobody has to actually buy into it unless they want to

except you didn't.
the 2.6 and 3.0 gazzaloddi weigh 1460g and 1697g respectively
[url= http://www.mtbtires.com/specs/nokian.html ]sauce[/url]
the dirt wizards are 850g and 1050g for folding and wire bead respectively. sorry, i only have claimed weights as they don't appear on mtbtires.com yet. [url= http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/surly-dirt-wizard-26-tyre-instigator-26275-4476-p.asp ]saucey charlie[/url]
so at double the weight of a regular tyre the gazzas are certainly going to make their presence felt. the dirt wizards aren't significantly heavier than a regular tyre.
be interested to know what rims the gazzas were being run on too?
you can bag a trials rim with 47mm ID for ~50 quid. so for ~ 120 quid you can go semi skimmed up front on a regular HT...

"the more choice of bikes (wheelsizes ,standards, whatsoever) the better"
totally agree...
as long as we have the choice!

And from what I've heard Hora, you couldn't ride out of sight on a dark night so I'll base my opinions on having actually ridden these before writing them off as 'wannabe Motocross' or whatever nonsense you spouted up there...

Pwned

bugger! should have refreshed the thread before doing all that ^. more than made up for by Flange's post though. LOL!

I'm sensing a strong anti-innovation vibe around here lately. If someone wants to try and break away from what we consider normal and have a crack at launching a new product or idea then go them!

Sure, there are plenty of reasons why fat tyres don't make sense performance wise... but they sure look like a lot of fun.

As for references to tapered head tubes, different wheel sizes, axle standards etc. I personally think these are great steps forward in the advancement of our bikes.

...or maybe I've been completely brain washed by the marketing men.

Morning Del 😉

Now he's ridden with me on my Krampus - doesn't slow me down too much, but apparently looks amusing from behind when I go over rooty sections.
I wouldn't expect 3" tyres to replace normal width tyres, why should they? But, more options is good right? I suppose some people just like moaning without actually trying out things.
For me, on the terrain I ride, and the speeds I ride at, they work.
Right I'm going to go out for a ride 😀

Are we going to see a 3" tyre craze (that requires new frame, fork and wheels)?

Yes - I'll be riding one this year so by definition it will be the best thing since sliced white.

:FACT:

I have not felt the need to get any of the current fashion standard tyre size so can't imagine I'd be interested in getting a new frame to fit even more pointless tyres. If you're weird enough to want a fat bike then mtfu and just get one.

I can't see the point of paying a decent amount to get a light weight wheel set only to stick some unnecessarily heavy/wide rubber on them. I'll stick to lighter wheels with decent front and rear suss. 😉

I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.

What would those negative effects be?

Sure, there are plenty of reasons why fat tyres don't make sense performance wise... but they sure look like a lot of fun.

Fat bike tyres are great for all terrain style bikes, those used for traversing bogs, sand or snow.

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft. Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort. Aside from all the other advantages of procore, it allows you to dial in the grip that you need by simply altering the PSI from a normal range right down to below 20 psi - without having to change your tyre.

Fat bike tyres are great for all terrain style bikes, those used for traversing bogs, sand or snow.

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft.

Well that's cleared that up then. I'll make sure to mention that to anyone I see on a fatbike having fun.

Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort. Aside from all the other advantages of procore, it allows you to dial in the grip that you need by simply altering the PSI from a normal range right down to below 20 psi - without having to change your tyre.

Do you use Procore yourself? Are you a fan because it has 'Pro' and 'Core' in the name?

I've seen 29+ and fatbikes ridden in the snow, down DH tracks, across beaches, at trail centres and on normal natural trails. And you know what? Every one of them had a massive grin plastered over their faces.

So if nothing else they seem to provide pleasure, regardless of their intended use or what some po-faced forum dweller who wants their opinions enforced on the rest of the world imagines to be the truth.

Call it free will, democracy, having a choice or not giving a monkey's pissflaps what someone else thinks of you. If they want to do it and someone will sell it to them then what exactly is the problem? I can't see how it will affect you (unless people enjoying themselves on bikes you don't approve of makes you realise what a mirthless and hollow experience your own rides must be 😉 ).

It is all riding bikes for fun, why does it need to get so serious and prescriptive? Don't want to ride fat tyres on your colour coded Enduro gnarpoon dandyhorse or DH 'rig'? Simple - don't buy them and then don't fit them to your bike.

Didn't get to go for a ride in the end, but been promised I can tomorrow - baby takes priority apparently 🙄

Re: suspension forks...

What would those negative effects be?

Cost, weight, servicing, seals, leaks, you know the usual.

Ok I'll bite...

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft. Honestly for normal riding, procore is the way to go if you want more grip and comfort.

Have you actually ridden a large footprint tyre? At speed? Probably not I guess, because, guess what....the grip is great. Have you ridden procore, or just basing you opinion on what you have read on the interweb?

Tom_W1987 - Member
I tried it and am completely sold on it.
Makes a rigid bike more comfortable without the negative effects of a suspension fork.
What would those negative effects be?

Well brake dive, and the way your body positioning/weight distribution has a drastic effect on the performance of the suspension.
IME after riding suspension for a long time you only notice the positives but take it away and the negatives become apparent.

deviant - Member

Just a few months ago the anti 650b brigade were saying that 26 to 27.5 was a pointless move because by putting a large tyre on a 26 you could get roughly to the size of a 650b anyway....this was then shouted down by people who quite rightly said that having a fat tyre on a 26 was less desirable than a lower profile on a 650b because the fat tyre is effectively undamped suspension and the tyre deflects too much providing an unstable platform.

If you can't see why the two are different you must be daft tbh. 650b is being sold as entirely as a performance improvement at the expense of withdrawing 26 entirely- small benefits, massive costs and downsides. Plus sizes and fatbikes are mostly being pitched as something fun and different you can do with bikes, and more importantly- not at the expense of anything else.

Not everything on a bike has to be better- worse can be fun, different can be fun. Sometimes, better is [i]less[/i] fun. Same thing as building a modern rigid, or similiar. And when there's absolutely no downside to you if someone else does it and likes it, what's the issue? (these things are always more offensive when someone else is having more fun than you)

Have you ridden procore, or just basing you opinion on what you have read on the interweb?

I'd say its very much the latter - keyboard warrior springs to mind...

They aren't great for grip/speed at trail centers/enduro races/downhill races. To pretend otherwise is daft.

Cornering grip is immense, you'll be washing out on your skinny tyres long before a fatty loses grip. But your rolling resistance will be much lower, like a maclaren v red bull kinda thing 😆

Still, I expect you've extensively ridden both all types of tyres & know this already

Have you actually ridden a large footprint tyre? At speed? Probably not I guess, because, guess what....the grip is great.

On my dirt bike the grip from a fat tyre is great, the bike has an engine and drags said tyres around effortlessly, the 100+kg weight of the bike makes big tyres a must, the speeds i ride at on that far exceed the speeds i get out of my own legs and i'm grateful for the extra grip....but sticking tyres like that on a MTB marks you out as a cockend, sorry but it has to be said....its a case of 'look at me'....'i'm different'...the hipster phenomenon on two wheels if you will.
I've never found myself running out of grip on 2.3-2.5 tacky compound rubber...when i've crashed its been down to my own incompetence, loss of concentration and lack of technique...not due to lacking an extra 1/2 inch of rubber up front

The defence of 'you cant be having fun on your own bike if you hate fat bikes' line is weak, having fun on my own bike doesnt stop me from wetting myself laughing at the achingly trendy wagon wheelers being posted on here.

Where do you lot on silly bikes ride because i've still yet to see one in the wild?!...everyone where i've ridden rides normal bikes, by that i mean a nice balance between weight and durability, a balance between outright grip and agility.

The defence of 'you cant be having fun on your own bike if you hate fat bikes' line is weak, having fun on my own bike doesnt stop me from wetting myself laughing at the achingly trendy wagon wheelers being posted on here.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't have fun unless you're on a fat bike. I've not ridden one so I can't comment, but they 'look' like fun. I struggle to understand the full sus fatties but again, I've not ridden one so I can't really comment. And I'm pretty certain no one rides them to look trendy.

Different strokes for different folks.

deviant - Member

The defence of 'you cant be having fun on your own bike if you hate fat bikes' line is weak

Who's said that?

OTOH, the truth is that if you resent other people having fun and doing what they want, or find it laughable, it's not them that has a problem.

@ deviant - I wasn't implying that the grip from 2.3 tyres was lacking. I've lost grip on all width tyres from CX to 29er+ This has been down to me pushing the bike/tyre beyond it's limit. My point was 3" tyres have plenty of grip, in all circumstances - I'm not sure why you seem to think that trail centres/enduro/DH have a different type of earth that has different properties to normal dirt.
However, you seem to be stuck in your little bubble, and calling anyone who decides to ride something a teensy bit different a 'cockend' marks you out as exactly that.
I bet your the kind of joyless twunt who shouts at people to get out of the way whilst attempting a strava run at a trail centre. It should be about fun, but you seem to be convinced it's about speed.

Where do you lot on silly bikes ride because i've still yet to see one in the wild?!

It should be about fun, but you seem to be convinced it's about speed.

Nope, i just like things to be proven as being better than what we have already, thats how products get better and racing is relevant to this...heard the old expression 'racing improves the breed'...?

If a decent level Enduro or DH team take on the 650b+/29+/semi-fat concept and makes it work, betters their previous results, beats existing standard tyres etc then i'll be first in line to hand over my money as i'll know the concept has been proven and its not just beardy men wobbling around the woods on rigids shouting 'fun' at the tops of their voices....or using the now cliched phrase that he was riding a fatbike "with a smile plastered across his face"....

to be fair, Tom should have both his tools and the ( seemingly endless ) collection of contraptions that might loosely be described as bicycles taken off him, just so the rest of us don't die laughing.
the problem is the ba5tard is quick, up and down. it's really irritating to see his big, daft, gurning face at the bottom of the same descent you've just nailed it down with the aid of 150mm fork to the best of your ability, when you're feeling like a shadow of your former self, and he looks fresh as a daisy, having done it all on those daft wagon wheels, as quick, if not quicker. then you reflect on the fact that he'll be chatting away to you on the next lung buster of a climb too.
i'm only thankful that now there's a baby is in life his opportunity to practice and train is massively reduced. gives the rest of us a chance.
happy holidays mate. 😉

I doubt you'll see B+ winning high level Enduros

From what I've been told lately it'll be the exact opposite.

deviant.
Just beardy men wobbling around the woods on rigids shouting 'fun' at the tops of their voices

Who says this is the demographic? Mine has hit the trail center blacks and keeping up with 160mm fs no problem I also use it to ride to work 50/50 road /off road and general local XC rides... Very versatile bike . Just watch someone doesn't show you up on one soon beard or no beard...

If a decent level Enduro or DH team take on the 650b+/29+/semi-fat concept and makes it work, betters their previous results, beats existing standard tyres etc then i'll be first in line to hand over my money as i'll know the concept has been proven and its not just beardy men wobbling around the woods on rigids shouting 'fun' at the tops of their voices....or using the now cliched phrase that he was riding a fatbike "with a smile plastered across his face"....

I do find myself sort of agreeing with the above. I'm in no way criticising peoples choice of bike, but we seem to be in a cycle of "inventing" the next new and better bike. And if it's not better what's the point. All this wheel size stuff just seems to be a different way of doing the same thing. For the life of me I can't see how riding one type of bike is more "fun than any other nice well sorted bike being ridden for its intended use.