The 'perfect bike' thread made me think about great bike designs. Not bikes that you like the most personally or enjoy from a riding perspective, but groundbreaking, influential or timeless designs that were genre-builders, significant or inventive steps forward in engineering, or changed the direction of future designs.
So if there was to be a list, what would you put forward and why?
A few that spring to mind -
[b]The 1885 Rover and Swift safety bicycles[/b] - the first 'conventional' bikes.
[b]The 'unknown Klunker'[/b] - since there were many, ie a Schwinn or similar with motorbike bars and coaster brake. The spiritual birth of MTB from the late 70s.
[b]The Pace RC100[/b] - The first MTB of the 'second wave' to have so many ideas in pursuit of refining off-road riding. The headset / steerer / forks, the looks, the frame.. maybe not an all-time great but certainly a stand-out bike from a high point of MTBs boom-years.
[b]The Cervelo Soloist[/b] - great design thinking based on real research and escaping the weight-weenieness of road bikes. From the frame shape to the geometry / fit theories, Cervelo showed real design aptitude with this bike.
[b]The Colnago Master X lite[/b] - Brand heritage, design detail, different geometry to most road bikes (albeit only slightly, but enough) and stunning looks - 'the' classic road bike in my mind.
[b]The Jones Ti Spaceframe[/b] - Design for purpose against all prior thinking and fashion / dogma. A bike that has more range than, and improved ergonomics and ride feel over most bikes. Not easy to do when a design has been evolving for 100yrs plus, especially when some of the ideas in the bike are almost that old, simply applied and adjusted for a different use.
[b]The first Willits Nanoraptor-equipped '28"' bike[/b] - He was too far ahead of his time but he was open minded and eccentric enough to apply the big-wheel benefits to a particular type of bike before most.
[b]Geoff Apps's experiments in the early 80s[/b] - Aesthetics and commercial success may have side-stepped most of his designs, but like the Jones, it's an example of unique thinking and single-minded design for purpose. Perhaps just a purpose that less people related to, but still a worthy inclusion. The Highpath Cleland looks more important now than it did then, but even back then it looked interesting.
[b]The Honda RN-01[/b] - Simply for being the only motorsport-in-cycling project I can recall that worked. A stunning looking and inspiring bike.
[b]The Planet X Compo[/b] - the first experiment in long travel hardtails that showed the way forward, an oddball that had a good idea behind it when many struggled with designing for sus forks of any kind. Whether you like long forks on a hardtail or not, they've added a lot of fun to a lot of rides. Maybe not an all-time great, but worth remembering.
[b]The Moulton[/b] - A simply brilliant chassis design.. A space frame and small wheels for stiffness and efficiency, simple suspension to cope with the only real drawback of the small wheels. Different for good reason and a real design classic.
[b]The DMR Trailstar[/b] - A steel jump / play bike for ragging round the woods that changed how many of us rode in the late 90s. BMX Trails came to meet MTB trails head-on. Simple, strong and cheap, and highly influential I think.
Of all the bikes listed above, I think maybe only 2 or 3 would make a credible all-time greats list. Others are just examples of what counts as a great bike to me.
Interested in what else gets posted up..
San Andreas Full bouncer...can't recall the name of it but it was pretty ground breaking a the time
Original Marin Mount Vision - pretty ground breaking when it first came out as it made full bounce 'affordable' to the masses and also offered it to every kind of rider not just for the downhillers.
Moulton - yes, I agree
Pace - yes, I agree
The original Specialized Stumpjumper (and probably from the same 'mould' - the original Muddy Fox Courier)
Scott Genius and Ransom (new to the scene but pretty ground breaking offering so much travel and variety in such a light package - but not cheap!)
dmr trailstar all the way, perfection
demo9
+1 Mountain Cycles San Andreas, Mount Vision and to a point, the mid-80s Stumpjumper too.
San Andreas Full bouncer
That'll be Mountain Cycle's San Andreas
didn't Kona start the long top tube\short stem idea?
Chopper - useless as a bike. But I can't remember a bike before or since that [i]every[/i] kid in the land wanted...
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dmr trailstar all the way, perfection
+1 🙂
Why the Demo9 Jedi? (I think it's and interesting application of the 4-bar Horst design and I love the HR Giger looks of the all-black version.)
I'd have put the spooky metalhead instead of the DMR and maybe a proflex in there as well as they were the first light weight racey full boinger
agree with geoff apps although he always said his bikes were for all terrain rather than mountain bikes as he was from a more trialsy background. If memory serves me didn't his bikes have massively high bb's?
not sure about jones either, different but not really top 10
Get that chopper of the thread quick!! : ) awful in every way.
The DMR Trailstar - A steel jump / play bike for ragging round the woods that changed how many of us rode in the late 90s. BMX Trails came to meet MTB trails head-on. Simple, strong and cheap, and highly influential I think.
Awesome shout.
Muddy Fox Courier, i remember loads of them around Edinburgh as well as Stumpjumpers, i ride an early courier i got cheap this year and its still ace! 🙂
Geoff Apps's experiments in the early 80s - Aesthetics and commercial success may have side-stepped most of his designs, but like the Jones, it's an example of unique thinking and single-minded design for purpose. Perhaps just a purpose that less people related to, but still a worthy inclusion. The Highpath Cleland looks more important now than it did then, but even back then it looked interesting.
Going riding with him in a couple of weeks and looking forward to meeting him and riding his Aventura, a legend and fore father of our pastime, i will do a blog post and link it on STW
I will have to say whyte Preston
curly hetchin
Pedersen
I'd have put the spooky metalhead instead of the DMR
Maybe, there were a few bikes around that time that were similar. The spooky was too expensive though so never really "took off"
The DMR was perfect, plus it was steel and cheap.
the cold forging, the lower c of g etcc.. great bike
Have to agree 100% on the Moulton. A wonderful concept, great design, so often misunderstood.
I'd also like to chip in with the Mountain Cycle San Andreas and the Marin Mount Vision. Both seemed to move the game on a bit I think.
awful in every way.
Completely agree!!!
The Planet X Compo - the first experiment in long travel hardtails that showed the way forward, an oddball that had a good idea behind it when many struggled with designing for sus forks of any kind. Whether you like long forks on a hardtail or not, they've added a lot of fun to a lot of rides. Maybe not an all-time great, but worth remembering.
thanks. But I basically copied Russell Burton's early Cove Stiffee import and made it more rad.
I think you missed the Planet X Jack Flash, which was the first mass production Taiwanese Dirt Jump frame, which was evolved from the Spooky Metalhead (though tweaked by the Tallifeur brothers).
GT LTS
Kona Cindercone, original steel ones excellent trailbikes.
Tazzy, the Metalhead was in mind, but the DMR was the one that everyone had, although the Metalhead was first I think? Maybe that trumps the DMR then.
I think Geoff apps made bikes that inspired due to how he customised and refined the bikes, rather than the bikes themselves or how they rode.
The Jones spaceframe's a class design in my book, it'd make a final 10 due to being simply a very good [i]bike[/i], for many uses, not just a good MTB.
Proflex, agreed - Bob Girvin got the now-classic single pivot point figured out before anyone else afaik.
But I basically copied Russell Burton's early Cove Stiffee import and made it more rad
I remember reading about the bike and seeing a very steep seat angle / short top tube on a 110mm Bomber-equipped easton RAD-esque alu frame - assumed the idea was the 'weight forward for long fork' thing and that's where I saw it first.
If so, I'll continue to blame you for all that )
Jameso metalhead was the first but the DMR was the plebeians choice
Not a single BMX?
I's go for a GT Pro Performer, or a Haro, one of if not the first freestyle bmx frames. And say something early like a Mongoose I, bringing all the elements together to make a quality 20 inch bmx affordable to the masses, to do what kids were already doing on other bikes. Or the Grifter, in a uk centric way, for sort of bringing "tough" off road style bikes to kids before BMX properly hit.
The Raleigh Arena - no particular reason, except every teenager in the 70's wanted one, and so introduced even non cyclists, to a smart looking bike.
The early Marin full sus frame - Pine FRS with Manitou rear seat stays. When Manitou were good!
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Wacky, but inspired.
By the way, this thread, although still young, makes such a nice change from all the spoilt whingy cockbaggery about substandard doilies in trail centre cafes or 'what butler' threads.
Sometimes easy to forget there are other bikers on here.
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Klein Adroit with fuselage stem/bars.
Not the best image but was just an out and out fast race bike, could never go fast enough to justify owning mine though.
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There is a local girl who I often see on an old blue klein with a child seat on the back very cool bike
I'd add one of Frank the welders sinister bikes creations like the splinter mx, the first adjustable ride height, head angle, seat angle hardcore bike with simple redneck engineering
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and foes for his monster shocks that hoover small cars without any fuss
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changed my mind about jeff, as a complete design package, frames fork, bars it works fantastically
"Not a single BMX?"
Only as my list was a starter for 10 minutes of posting, I'd be there all night writing a post if I listed everything I could think of ) Plus I know little about BMX, had 3 and that's enough to know I can't ride them well!
I always wanted a Curtis freestyler BITD.
BMXs definately deserve a spot for getting so many kids into bikes.
Maybe the 'original' Doug Bradbury Manitou version of that Marin (but they were awful tbh) 😉
Having watched Klunkerz earlier this year, I'd have to nominate Charlie Cunningham's early mountain bikes.
Seems he quietly came up with loads of the features that ended up on mass market MTBs for years after.
what about that brooklyn machine works bike that josh "crazy-man" bender jumped 50 ft drops on :-)EDIT also the original gt zaskar (was the first mtb to be successful at cross country/downhill and trials (obviously a certain mr rey had something to do with it also 😉
Realman, I think something like that -or that bike itself- is a very good call. Possibly changed cycling in the UK more than any other individual bike in recent years? And it's not a bad ride either for what it is, I'd say from a brief semi-drunken spin that it was a good design.
I will have to say whyte Preston
biased
compositepro - Member
I will have to say whyte Preston
biased
POSTED 27 SECONDS AGO # REPORT-POST
You are right but I still think it's a great concept shame it wasn't further developed , be great in carbon
Ooh dunno, I mean a lot of the bikes mentioned on here are simply tweaks of existing designs, but I'd go for stuff such as the Grifter, which preceded BMX here in the UK, early MTBs like the original Spesh Stumpy, Geoff Apps' designs, Sarcin Conkwest, Muddy Fox Courier etc which were the first 'all terrain bikes' we saw here, later to be followed by stuffs like the Orange Clockwork and that.
Then you've got yer big fat aluminium stuffs from Cannondale and Klein, which redefined how a mountain bike should look.
Full suss? Well, There was stuff like the Gary Fisher RS-1, Cannondale EST, GT LTS/RTS, then yer amp Research designs, followed by the Spesh FS and Trek's Y-frame designs. The San Andreas and Sintessi Bazooka were the hardcore downhill machines. and of course Jon Whyte's Marin FS bikes.
Difficult, in't it? I mean, yer jumpy types would say something like a Spooky Metalhead, but that was a very expensive 'niche' machine, and I think really it's the more widely available bikes which have had greater influence on what people buy really. How many people owned a Spooky, compared to say a Spesh Hardrock?
And what about the influence of stuff like Mert Lawwill's Yeti FS bikes, what were used for downhill speed record attempts?
The answer's not always what people might think it to be. If someone talks about a 'great' bike design, I'm inclined to think of something that actually had an impact on the way more people ride and use bikes. See RealBoy's perfect example of such, above....
I will have to say whyte Preston
curly hetchin
Pedersen
I'd agree with all of those. The Pederson is a wonderful bike to ride. The Hetchins is a classic. The PRST1 and Mt Vision were designs to be proud of too.
I was looking up some stuff about FW Evans' bikes a while ago, he was using oval tubes for the same reasons as the Baines Flying Gate and the curly Hetchins designs at that time, but it had a simpler look that didn't appeal as much then.
Intense M1?...the best downhill bike of its generation.....by a country mile.
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what about that brooklyn machine works bike that josh "crazy-man" bender jumped 50 ft drops on :-)EDIT also the original gt zaskar (was the first mtb to be successful at cross country/downhill and trials (obviously a certain mr rey had something to do wit
Josh Bender used a Karpiel
The Zaskar is a classic though.
small (14 & 16") Zaskars were commonly built as jump bikes before either came along and quite a few cheap little jump frames were in production by the time DMR and Spooky launched theirs.Maybe, there were a few bikes around that time that were similar. The spooky was too expensive though so never really "took off"The DMR was perfect, plus it was steel and cheap.
trailstars always felt too long for me back then.
Metalheads felt quite a bit shorter.
ah apologies 😳
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and Vouilloz won a WC DH on a Zaskar
