140 travel not too slack bike search - help?

What is the head angle / reach on your Spectral?

Orbea occam is nicely balanced with 66⁰ HA and 76⁰ SA. They come in 140 or 150 flavours. Excellent climber too.

Although I'm guessing you'd get a much better spec on a canyon neuron which has similar geo.

Sounds like you need to demo a few bikes, see what feels right to you.

2,000eur for a full bike? Bit limiting but there are certainly some deals about at the mo.

This is under budget and middle-of-the-road geometry, but you've probably heard the parent company may be about to go bust...
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/vitus-escarpe-290-cr-mountain-bike

YT Jeffsy Core 2 if you can get one.

Otherwise an alloy Stumpjumper from a sale.

I’d say the latest Canyon Neuron (2023 model) or best spec Stumpy (2021 model onwards) you can get. Merida just bought out a new 120 model which confusingly has 130mm travel which might be worth a look too. 

https://flic.kr/p/2mhCLFy

My Revel Rascal is 140/130. 66 deg head angle I think. Certainly felt a lot more agile than my V1 RipMo and certainly my Giga (which is very slack). Brilliant climbing bike as well. Does have quite a lot of pivots but less of an issue where you live in terms of mud etc.

Not 2k list, but I do have that one for sale 🙂 #notverystealthad

Basic geometry on the Spectral is pretty much industry standard these days, HA 64, SA 76.5, reaches is 460 for M and 485 for L. I think you'd struggle to find bikes that aren't shaped like that these days. But also causation/correlation, are you sure your crash was the bike? might be just coincidence?

Devil's advocate: The Spectral doesn't sound especially slack on paper by today's standards - and LLS does take a fair bit of getting used to if you're coming from 26.

The difference in body positioning is huge -- shoving your weight over the front of a 29 LLS feels very alien if you've been used to an old-school 26in bike, but you have to get used to it or it's front wheel washout party time.

Bikeradar review of the Spectral is fairly insightful, talks about how sensitive the Spectral is to rear sag - 25% compromises on the rough stuff but feels peppy and lively, 30% works better on the lumpy stuff but makes the steering feel lazy. Might be something to take from that - or possibly you've faffed endlessly and reached the same conclusion...

Could it be worth checking that you've got everything dialled in? Front/rear sag, bar width/roll, stem length etc?

yeah I'd agree with the "persevere" comment. if you want to play with the head angle to see if it'd actually help you could fit a slackset into it (backwards) if one is compatible.

Otherwise the canyon neuron is their 140mm bike with more "traditional" geo. 66 head angle. I don't think it'll be the fix you're after though

New or second hand? If s/h then maybe last gen giant trance?

Basic geometry on the Spectral is pretty much industry standard these days, HA 64, SA 76.5, reaches is 460 for M and 485 for L. I think you’d struggle to find bikes that aren’t shaped like that these days.

64deg HA is still pretty unusual for a 125mm bike, unfortunately.

OP says the bike wasn't to blame, he/she's just not liking it.

I think the Spectral 125 looks like a mint bike. It's a shame to punt it on without really sussing it out. Breaking your ribs would take the shine off it I'm sure but I bet you could learn to love it.

OP, what size is the bike and how tall are you? 

If you liked your coctic, what About a full Sus from them?

Can you mullet it?

I found 29ers took a while to get used to but after a while it becomes normal. Personally I’m looking 275 and mullet bikes at the moment (although still own a 29er).  I prefer the increase in manoeuvrability they off over the straight line speed of a 29er. <br />I also was coming from a 26er that I’d set up perfectly over about 8 years. <br />Modern (LLS) geo bikes need a different technique to older style bikes as you don’t really hang off the back as much. 

If you liked your coctic, what About a full Sus from them?

I was about to say that. Jeht maybe, or FlareMax if you want something a little tighter? Utterly biased as a very happy FlareMax owner 🙂

well I was right, people do like these kind of questions! thanks everyone. 

so in no particular order, definitely pilot error breaking my ribs, although I would love to place the blame somewhere else... 

I'm aware of the change in riding style, probably that which caused me to lose the front. 

1.72m and a size small bike. (Cotic and Canyon)

I've had this thing for a couple of months, so how long does perseverance take? 

I have spent a while messing around with the sag at the start, but i confess to being more of an adapt to the bike sort of rider once it's close to dialed. 

I'm thinking a little tour around the local shops and maybe a demo ride or two once my ribs have solidified. call it another couple of weeks.

thanks for the advice and suggestions.

so how long does perseverance take?

I guess it depends if you're enjoying the experience, which it sounds like you're not particularly!

Although I 'd still say that coming form an older 26" HT to a modern designed FS with 29er wheels and a slacker head angle is going to take some changes to your riding style, and that's going to be true of many of the newer bikes you test regardless of 1 or 2 degs of change in HA between them.

The 2023 Canyon Neuron will suit you very well.

The Spectral 125 is super slack, it’s not a ‘Trail’ bike in the sense that it’s just too slack! All day pedals on a mixture of trails will be hard work on that geo setup imho

I’m aware of the change in riding style, probably that which caused me to lose the front.

1.72m and a size small bike. (Cotic and Canyon)

I think you're on the right track. You have to shift your weight a bit further forward with the new bikes and trust your forks and front tyre a bit more than might have been the case in the past. The Hardtail Party chap did a video that is well worth a look if you haven't already seen it (sounds like you might've): 

I'm shorter than you (165ish) and very happy on a Medium these days. Udderlet 1 is currently on a 16" Orange 5 with 26" wheels, which is what I used to ride, and it feels really off - short, squirrelly and not very stable while also being a bit of a chore to steer.

looking at Canyon's pages, you are on the cusp of Small and Medium - see below.

I'd consider trying out a size M of the same bike if you can. Although I also think sticking a bit longer with your existing choice (which is a nice bike, BTW) could well be worth it. Tinker with the shock pressure - try less sag and more spacers to see f it perks up the bike a little.

Nukeproof reactor 

172 seems tall for a small.

172 seems tall for a small.

^^^ This. I'm 173mm, firmly in the M/ML camp.

I'd second an Occam - because I have one, and lT.   My playground is tight and twisty forest trails and it really is excellent, and as above an excellent climber also.  sigma Sports have them with around 40% off currently.

how about a canyon neuron?

steeper than the spectral and lighter, too. sounds like it would fit your needs a bit better.

I'd echo a Cotic FlareMAX.

Recently test rode a Jeht and a FlareMAX. The Jeht was too much bike - felt very much geared for "bigger and steeper". The FlareMAX felt like a full suss Cotic Soul (which I have). I'd be looking at one myself but then, the Spectral I sold I'm now buying back, so I've removed the itch to look elsewhere.

There was an offer on them - still probably out of budget but I'd also look 2nd hand.

The thing is, Canyon's web site seems to suggest 172cm is the top of the height range for a size Small. If you're coming from an old school 26" wheeled bike, that might work. But nowadays it's more in the Medium size than Small. I'm shorter than OP and ride exclusively size M frames these days. One of the risks of buying direct without being able to test ride - but it's also about coming to newer designs and geos from older kit, which it sounds like OP is already factoring in.

I'd put an angleset in backwards and see if that changes the geometry the way you want. Otherwise I'd try to demo some bikes.

That bike sounds a touch on the small side to me. I’m 175cm on a medium Sentinel and I was on the cusp of medium / large according to Transition (reach is 451mm on medium and 475mm on the large).

Old bikes which were quite short you had to hang off the back on some stuff to avoid going over the bars. On new bikes with longer reach and wheelbase you have to retrain yourself - on steep stuff keeping low in the middle of the bike (which is possibly because of dropper posts) and keeping your elbows with a bit of a bend in keeps more weight on the front wheel. Which means you’re less likely to wash out the front tyre.

Personally the Spectral sounds like an ace bike - but then my Sentinel has a 63.5 ish degree head angle. I don’t see any downside to the slack headangle personally. My bike turns well but is confidence inspiring on steep stuff for me.

If you really want to go steeper then I’d suggest you don’t go steeper than 66 degree headangle. Especially if you ride steep / slow tech. <br /><br />For your budget you’re probably looking at Canyon Neuron / YT Jeffsey / Radon Slide Trail. 

I had been riding the same Cotic as a winter bike and changed to the Spectral 125 in the Spring

I now don't enjoy the Cotic due to the small wheels and geometry

If yours is the one with Fox 36 Rhythms - mine had lots of grease in the airshaft and I found it a lot better after reducing the amount and playing with the sag.

However it is a slog to ride uphill on a big ride - trying to get it to track straight gives a much bigger upper body workout than previous bikes I have had.  However most of my riding isn't like that so its a nice compromise for me.

A friend has the new Neuron - that is probably the bike you are looking for (if sticking with Canyon).  All feel very different to your Soul though.

I guess one option is for you to pickup a frame and swap your Canyon parts over?

I'm the same height as OP and came straight from 26 to LLS 29 two years ago. Also lost the front of one during a demo, fortunately not hurt.

I ride a medium Bird Aether 9 which has a 461mm reach and 65deg head angle. The 436mm reach of your Spectral would feel tiny, and wouldn't give me the required room to ride with my weight over the front.

I'd read about the new way of riding and watched videos, but the best thing I did for my riding enjoyment and safety was do an intermediate level skills course.

If there's a video on YouTube of the sort of trails you ride, you could post it here so we can validate suggestions or make better ones.

Agree on the sizing   I'm 172cm and ride mediums now.  Smalls feel tiny.  I have a 2023 Canyon Neuron in med and it's probably closer to what you want

Blister review of spectral 125  is pretty  comprehensive and echoes OP's impression.

Cheapest solution - angleset  to steepen the head angle?

Otherwise, maybe better off with smaller wheels if you wat something more nimble? i don't always like the 29er tendency to plow forwards. Nukeproof Reactor 275 will likely be easy to pick up at good value in the near future.

okay, thanks again everyone. I think I'm going to try and get hold of an angleset and see what that does. The bike's been discounted again so selling it will definitely result in losing more cash than I would like to! I also like the colour...

if it's not too far in the distant future I'll let you all know how that works out...

@svensvenson - just a thought but before you buy a slack set to make the wheelbase shorter (when it’s probably quite a short bike for your size already) why don’t you invest in a coaching session instead. I’ve found it’s amazing the changes that can be made to even the basics in a 3 hour session. Just making a few changes after looking at videos riding differently over the same section can change your body position on the bike.

I’ve had 2 x 121 sessions since 2018 and each one has brought a step change in my ability / skills. Due another soon really to see if I can push on a bit further on rooty / steppy sections + jumps