Erm, that's it really...
Thinking why would I buy an 11 over an 8
Bike Forum
why is alfine 8 better than 11 ( apart from 3 more gears within the same range)
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Posted 7 months ago #
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Not too sure and I've got both on bikes at the mo.
11 has a nicer shifter.Posted 7 months ago # -
Aren't they entirely different!
8 speed is planetary gears. My experience is that they are a bit difficult to tune precisely and slip now and then. Maintenance is not simple by any means, just look at the huge thread on hubstripping.
11 speed is helical gears, just like the (lifetime guaranteed) Rohloff. Srevicing this is like servicing your car: remove plug, drain oil, pour in new oil, replace plug.
Plus the 11 speed is lighter.
But I totally agree on the range of gears. I'd much prefer a much closer set of ratios. The range is ridiculous! With the teeny tiny chainring on the Genesis Day 11 I'll be able to commute to work in 53-11. Yet I'll also be able to twiddle up snowdon. Not necessary!
I like my Alfine 8 a lot, but I'm expecting the 11 to be a different animal.
Posted 7 months ago # -
I like my Alfine 8 a lot, but I'm expecting the 11 to be a different animal.
It's a different animal, but more like a zebra is a different animal to a horse rather than say a slug and an eagle. (This analogy seemed more and more useless as I wrote it, but I couldn't stop)
In reality they both weigh pretty much the same, you pedal, the wheel goes round and that's about it. The 11's a bit more refined, and I think the pick-up might be more immediate, but after a few minutes use they both seem pretty similar. In my limited experience I think the 11 might be more fussy with cable set-up than the 8 for gear slippage, but I haven't put enough miles on the 11 to say that with any confidence.
Posted 7 months ago # -
"after a few minutes use they both seem pretty similar"
What about after a few years?
I like your analogy, even if you don't.
Posted 7 months ago # -
All of the above.....
With my 11-spd on the road I find that bottom is gear is very low and top is way too high - the remainder in the middle are fine, if a little spread. I'm running 44/20, but will prob drop to 42/20 when (IF!) the ring/chain wears out as I'm really only using the 2nd/3rd to 9th gear.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Yeah the few years will be the real test.
The 8 is on my commuter and has done several winters now and I guess is on about 6-8000 miles. I gave it a mini service this summer (first time it's ever been opened, and the internals still looked factory fresh). Hopefully the 11 will be the same, but I doubt it will get the same amount of use as it's on a mountain bike, and doesn't get the same daily use.Posted 7 months ago # -
I ought to have said 'thanks' in my last post Ian. Ta. I'll manage my expectations down a bit.
Respect for servicing the 8. I'm scared of mine. Only ridden it 2 winters so far. I think I'm subconsciously adopting the "don't touch it until something goes wrong" approach, which doesn't work for most stuff.
My 8 is on the commuter and requires a 56 chainring for that job. 11 is going on a crosser, where the huge range will be completely wasted. Still, the poshest bike must have the poshest kit, right? Regardless of suitability. I have been sternly warned not to approach any cross races on the Genesis 11 by my club mates. I hardly think it'll be raceworthy but their objection is one of aesthetics.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Unashamed advertisement:
in case anyone is given to purchase one I have an 11 for sale with all the kit, on a rim.
email me for details.Posted 7 months ago # -
Yup don't touch seems pretty sensible. I was just a bit concerned that it might be rotting inside without my knowledge, but they seem really well sealed, so it's probably fine to leave as is.
As for the cx do it, but maybe at some racks, reflectors and a basket too just for them
Posted 7 months ago # -
Don't be afraid of servicing (at least on the 8 speed) - it's easy once you've had the balls to do it once. My Nexus 8 (pretty much the same as an Alfine 8 ) on my winter commuting bike is on its 5th year, approaching 10,000 miles now. I've stripped it and dipped the internals in ATF (automatic gearbox fluid - way easier than grease) every other year and the internals still looked utterly new when I did it last summer. Not even any sign of water ingress. OK, it's on a road bike, but it's on filthy, wet, hilly moorland roads.
I don't have first-hand experience of the 11, but you do get a bit more range (although for my purposes the 300% of the 8 speed is about right) and it'll cost you a lot more for the privilege. Sometimes a lower gear would be nice when slogging up the hill into a headwind after a bad day at work, but I wouldn't pay a lot more for it. If my Nexus broke I'd probably buy another 8 (maybe Alfine).
Posted 7 months ago # -
crotchrocket, ygm...
Posted 7 months ago # -
I paid for my alfine that was a couple of years old and a few thousands of miles to be dipped in the shimano magic fluid bath. smoother, less drag, better shifting. I think servicing them is well worth doing. The 8 is not quite enough range for me - I spin out down some Edinburgh hills but still use first on the way up
Posted 7 months ago # -
11-spd servicing is dead simple <cough> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/dealing-with-an-lbs - all ended ok, eventually
</cough>
Posted 7 months ago # -
I used ATF too
No way was I going to pay what shimano wanted for therr service oil!
Posted 7 months ago # -
Crotchrocket, YH another M
Posted 7 months ago # -
My learning curve from reading this thread is steepening. Thanks all.
Posted 7 months ago # -
TJ - Where in Edinburgh did you get it serviced. Did they have to remove the hub from the wheel or just dip the whole wheel / hub into the fluid?
Posted 7 months ago # -
If you spin out, stop (or freewheel) and have a think:
Does it really matter? A few s on the commute home? You may need to get laid more.
Posted 7 months ago # -
...the 11 speed is lighter...
sorry, it isn't. I've had both, i've weighed them, they both weigh 1690grams.
Yes, i'm a geek and need to get a life. But i'm a geek with a digital weighing scale**!
the '8 doesn't like shifting under tension, the '11 is a bit better at this.
(**the scale is not calibrated, but it is very repeatable, and i did use the same scale for both hubs)
Posted 7 months ago # -
Martinwilly ..the rohloff speedhub is based on a planetary gear system.
Posted 7 months ago # -
bauchlebastart - Member
leith cyles in abbeyhill. The cluster comes out of the hub and is given an oil bathTJ - Where in Edinburgh did you get it serviced. Did they have to remove the hub from the wheel or just dip the whole wheel / hub into the fluid?
Posted 7 months ago # -
service the cup and cones once a year, that's what has done for the 8 on my mtb, not the gears.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Kaiser. So it is. Just been to Sheldonbrown and hubstripping.
But the Alfine 11 and Rohloff are both oil lubricated, unlike the Alfine 8.
AndyRT's original question starting to look like a much better point than I first thought.
Here's why I went for the Alfine 11: it's what the Genesis Day 11 comes with. Case closed!
Posted 7 months ago # -
Alfine 8 is roughly same range as a 1X9, Alfine 11 is 2X9 & Rohloff 3X9
I did see an Alfine 11 with twin chain rings up front in Germany last year though.
There are some pictures of failed 8's on MTBR.Posted 7 months ago # -
weirdly, I found my 11 shifted worse under load than my 8, despite meticulous setting up of both.
I preffered the 8 despite being dead keen to try the 11.
11 has the best shitfer though, unless you go for a J-Tek unit.I kept niether.
Posted 7 months ago # -
What did you end up with Slimjim?
Quite a bit of cash sunk on the experiment, so you must have been pretty unimpressed to ditch them.
I can never bring myself to shift under load on any bike. I guess I do if I'm desperate.
Posted 7 months ago # -
People seem to have very differing opinions of the Shimano hub gears. Some people say they fall apart in no time (even on the road) and others (like me) have run them for years with no problems. Perhaps the QC is a bit variable and it's just pot luck if you get a good one.
Mine's a bottom-of-the-range Nexus 8 (not even the "premium" version) and it's performed perfectly on my winter (road) commuter with just a quick strip and dip in ATF every other year. The Nexus 8 premium and Alfine 8 have better bearings on the internal gearing AFAIK, so should be even better (or perhaps they're just a bit less draggy but more fragile?). FWIW, mine changes up happily under load, but sometimes won't change down until I back off a bit (but under normal conditions it usually changes at the pedal dead-point 6/12 o'clock)
I thought the main reason people break hub gears on MTBs is by using too small a chain ring to get lower gears and putting too much torque through them. How do they normally fail - cracked hub body or broken internals? I've heard people moaning about the big bearing on the drive side falling apart and trashing the inside of the casing, but so far I've been lucky - mine still looks as-new.
Posted 7 months ago #
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