Quick question, Who in the UK can ream Titanium frames with regard to head tubes to the correct size to accept a 1 1/8th Hope headset?,. I’ve got a replacement Hummer frame as my previous Hummer frame was not reamed and it seems that this replacement is not reamed either (arghhhhh) as i found out when i went to press in the lower cup, the head tube on the frame is sized as 33.65mm according to the digital vernier gauge when it should be 33.9mm give or take .05mm, i also noticed there is visible burs on the inside of the rear brake mount so that’s not been faced.

And yeah, i should send it back yada-yada-yada but i’ve bought all the various new components to fit to the frame ( for my previous frame that was sent back), and sized for it specifically eg – 30mm seatpost, seatpost QR, Pauls front chain device, normal steerer talas fork etc…etc , it’s all been sitting here for the past month waiting to build it up into a bike to ride otherwise i’d be tempted to to look at something else but that would mean extra expense on my part (sell a kidney and buy a jones?) and seeing as i’ve spent the best part of £4k+ so far on this bike i just want to get out and ride, not f-cuk about any longer.

It’s a waste of time sending it back for another replacement as there is obviously a f-kin idiot in charge of quality control somewhere along the line so who in the UK can deal with titanium reaming to a high standard and i’ll charge the shop or importers as necessary.

Cheers,

Enigma?

Just read post properly, and edited!.

I know a man who can help with this, based in Essex.

Not a bike specialist but an Aston Martin tuner. Makes very expensive bits out of various metals including Ti for outrageously expensive and very fast playthings. He’s spun up several bike parts for mates that would disgrace anything you see in the bike world.

Pretty confident he could help – my email address is on my profile, send me some pics and I can put you in touch.

🙂

The above post from andyrm is a reminder why STW is **** awesome sometimes. Kudos mate.

Might be worth having a chat with 18 Bikes, they seem to be able to do everything else frame wise. Top service too.

Cheers for the replies peeps, I’ll look into them in more detail t’morn at work after i call the importers or original shop where i’ve purchased both frames to see if they will cover the costs involved. As an aside I’ve recently started work in a bike shop myself (next level bikes castle douglas) but we don’t have a head tube reamer and as far as i can tell there isn’t a shop within driving distance who do, so i guess i’ll be sending it off to someone else. I was going to do it myself at my fathers workplace as they are an engineering works dealing in stainless and titanium fabrication/welding for various industries such as gas,pharmaceutical,nuclear etc but they deal in very specific tubing sizes/specifications and don’t have the correct sized reamer readily available.

andyrm – I may be in touch t’morn at some point, many thanks for your post – appreciated!.

sambob – I was actually looking at the 18bikes website earlier, i may give them a call t’morn.

Cheers for the replies folks, 5 weeks to the day since i received my original unreamed frame and i’m still not riding…….. I should”ve bought a f-kin cotic soul.

Wouldnt it be easier to turn down a Hope bottom cup to fit ?

And facing brake mounts…
People actually do this ?
Just stick the brake on & shim it if needed.

Are you sure you’re getting a good reading on your calipers? Got a ring gauge to calibrate them?

Aside from that anyone with a reamer, Ti is like cheese.

takisawa2 : You’d think a £1600 TItanium hardtail frame would come fully prepped for intended use but unfortunately not, perhaps i’ve been spoilt with having custom steel frames in the past but i expect something this expensive to be fit for purpose at the point of sale.

As for turning down a Hope lower headset cup?, yeah i guess i could do this as i have access and experience on a lathe but why even consider this option?, anyway…it’s the head tube that needs reamed and faced top and bottom – quite why this was not done or noticed during quality control astounds me, perhaps i just expect too much these days.

dirk – Even by eyesight alone you can tell that there is no way to force the headset cup into the frame, unless i have been extremely unlucky in purchasing two oversized Hope 1 1/8th headsets which with Hope’s quality control is very unlikely.

Is your hummer made by lynskye by chance

My ti hardtail is and hope bottom cup was so tight I filed it down to fit as I was in a proper hurry to ride
Not ideal but that was 3 years ago and all is still working just fine

No way is a vernier up to this job, no matter how many digits on the readout.

Use a micrometer, then get back to us.

I’ve never needed a special reamer for ti – just the usual one with plenty of cutting fluid as usual.

Top marks to orangeboy, got it in one.

al – Just for you i dug out my internal dial bore callipers, I calibrated them using a single point calibration at 30mm using my trusty 25mm-50mm LS Starrett Micrometer which i know is accurate, i trust this will satisfy you for this purpose in hand, After careful consideration i decided not to take ambient temps or humidity into consideration but as it took a bit of rooting about in the shed to find the above items i may have caused quite a mess so if you wouldn’t mind could you possibly pop round and tidy it up for me? – there’s a good chap, terribly decent of you to offer and it’ll give you something to do.

Oh…btw, the internal dia of the head tube is 33.64 in the lower cup seat and 33.72 in the upper cup seat, obviously i have to take into account the error rate induced by my imbibing a significant quantity of Vouvray wine earlier in the evening but i am confidant my readings will stand up to scrutiny.

Get a Park reamer and a bottle of Park fluid in it!

Cheers ben, that’s good to know coming from someone with knowledge and know-how.

Have a look at this for a laugh. His rule is a thing of beauty :O)

‘take a rubber mallet like that.. and pound it in a little bit’

I’m not traveling all the way up to Aviemore to get you to do it martin, although the idea of a riding holiday in the area has recently crossed my mind as i haven’t been up that way since i ripped the headtube from my soulcraft back in 07, I think Rik up at Drumlanrig may have a reamer so i’ll give him a call t’morn – if he doesn’t i’m sure he knows someone who does.

I’m not in Aviemore these days. I got a job at (2nd edit,hah): Lynskey in the headtube Dept. Kidding ;O)

Hey,give me a clue on who you are?! I am thinking …friend of Richard P?

…or Kenny.

I borrowed your rigid pace RC100 on the morning after i borked my Soulcraft in the centre of Aviemore a few days after sswc2007, i hit an unfinished bench whilst sprinting at full speed that workmen forgot to fence off outside the train station and ripped the head tube off my Soulcraft…sob….sob…and face planted the ground – still got the frame on my wall, still with my original blood on the down tube, i guess i should see if there’s any frame builders in this country who could repair it as sending it back to Sean in California would be cost prohibitive.

That’s my borked frame below, and below that ….the horror….the horror….remember me now as i walked in the door of your shop the next morning, got out of hospital at Raigmore bout 9am and popped in to see if you had any hire bikes as i didn’t want to miss out on that mornings ride – you gave me your rigid pace which rattled my head n’ bones something stupid, i couldn’t wear my helmet coz my head was too swollen but i did ride out wi everyone else, for a while at least till the swelling closed my eyes and it got too tricky to see or navigate so i returned to the chalet to drink whisky and feel sorry for myself.

Jools had the good sense to take a pic 15mins after i crashed, sensible girl or perhaps just fascinated by blood, ain’t i a beauty?.

Jools had the good sense to take a pic 15mins after i crashed, sensible girl or perhaps just fascinated by blood, ain’t i a beauty?.

2 days after the crash and you’d hardly notice 😀

Kenny btw, ( yeah – guessed right)

I recognise you……….

Im sure your responsible for my balvenie addiction 🙂

Poor soulcraft 🙁

Pro-bikes at Hucknall Notts did mine some time ago: if you’re anywhere near give him a ring.

But is it a crack or is it a sticker?

Who can ream/face titanium frames in the UK?

kaesae/airborne10101 ???

Can Merlin not do it?

Sorry if I upset you fella, it’s been a while since my machining days but I was always taught that verniers weren’t up to this job. YMMV!

It’s not a vernier unless it has a vernier scale! tsk

Ouch that looks nasty. Did the carbon forks survive?

Reamed out an Airborne seat tube today – normal cutters no problem. Also cut down a ti seat post for it, standard hacksaw did the job…

Ti on Ti? I thought that was a no no? no?

I just do the jobs people bring me 🙂

I did suggest plenty of ti prep…

Right folks this may get a tad confusing but keep with it – the outcome may just be be worth it.

Merlin didn’t want to send me a replacement frame due to the issue i mentioned in this thread regarding the seatpost shim so they refunded me my original purchase price, here’s the email below i received from them on Tuesday 25th September,

Hi Kenny,

I have heard back from Silverfish regarding the frame. They have credited us due to the headset fault.
As we have no more stock of the frame in the size ordered and due to your concerns over the seatpost shim (Any other frame in stock would have the same shim and longer ones are not available from Silverfish) we have refunded the cost back to your card used to pay for the order.
The money (£961.15 frame and headset) should show back in your account shortly.
Apologies for the inconvenience.

Kind Regards
Mike
Returns Dept

Right – I was peeved as i had bought and sized all the components but as they said they had no more frames in stock of my preferred size 17″ i had to accept their offer of a refund with good grace so that was that and i set about hunting down another cove hummer frame, which proved a fruitless search for 2 days till i got a phone call from a mate who said Merlin do have cove hummers in stock and in your 17″ frame size, i checked the website and yep, they did have stock but it was the raw Ti finish rather than the Matt Ti finish of my original frame but i didn’t care one bit so i ordered one on Thursday 27th September, got a phone call from Merlin cycles on Friday 28th September expressing concern about my order as i had mentioned the 60mm seatpost shim and they did not stock shims and would not replace it, Not a problem i said – go ahead and send it and i’ll replace it myself.

All well and good so far, anyway my frame arrived on Tuesday 2nd October up at the bike shop and i drove up that night to collect it, nice raw Ti finish so i stroked it lovingly and drove it home, i started to build it up last night and F-F-sake this headtube has not been reamed out either….which is where this thread started up there at the top.

I contacted merlin t’day thursday 4th October to ask if they had another 17″ Hummer frame in stock and if possible would they please measure the internal dia of the headtube and i’ll phone back later on in the day to find out whether or not i have been unlucky in receiving two unreamed frames or perhaps it really was my fault for being inept (nope, i’m most definitely not inept, neither is the owner of the bike shop i work at). The guy on the phone at merlin (lets call him Andy for arguments sake) was pretty short with me to say the least and mentioned that they’ve not had a problem with any other frames and that was one of the reasons i had been refunded as they didn’t want the hassle of dealing with me, i was a bit confused bout this to say the least as i had originally received a faulty frame and sent it back – what’s the hassle in that?, surely if a product is faulty i have every right to return it and ask for a replacement or the problem to be rectified?, but the original frame was passed onto silverfish the importers and they agreed it was faulty so it’s now on it’s way back to Lynskey in the states, my second frame has exactly the same problem as the first and whilst it is a strange coincidence to say the least it is in no way good customer service to basically call me a liar on the phone rather than try to help solve the problem.

The lower headset seat on my Cove Hummer is 33.64mm

The dia of a lower Hope headset cup is 34.1mm

The difference in the two is .46mm, basically half a millimetre which does not sound like much but when you’re struggling to press an alloy cup into the frame as it reams a sliver of alloy from the cup you pretty quickly come to the conclusion something is not quite right.

The dia of a suitably reamed lower headset cup on a frame should be 33.9mm =/- .05mm, basically 33.85mm to 33.95mm.

My headset is way off this tolereance, so i have the following options open to me, it’s up to the STW massiv to decide what i choose to do from here.

A : Do i drive the 200 miles down to Merlin Cycles at Preston, hand Andy my frame and watch as he tries to press in my Hope headset with no success, and await a suitable apology, otherwise if no apology is forthcoming -> appendix A1 ->own them with Bombers.

B : Take my frame to someone who knows what their talking about, who could ream out the headtube such as Ben up there at Glasgow, which is the sensible option as Glasgow is only 100 miles away from where i stay, and Ben seems like a decent guy who knows what he’s talking about – i’d pay Ben and hopefully Ben would write me a short report stating the work carried out, why the work was carried out and hopefully Merlin Cycles would reimburse me, otherwise see appendix A1 above

I doubt Merlin have a headset reamer as this has not been mentioned in any conversation with them as why would they send the original frame back to silverfish if they could simply have reamed it out to start with, and anyway i don’t think i’d even trust them to fix a puncture on my neighbours folding shopper bike never mind attempt to ream my Titanium headtube to the correct size.

And yeah…the carbon Pace forks in the above pic are fine – still in use with no probs, and unfortunately it was a crack, shame it wasn’t a sticker as i can cope with ripping off plasters so a sticker wouldn’t have hurt as much as cracking my frame or face….but mostly my frame still hurts me to this day as my face has healed up fine after two nose jobs and £4K of dental work, frame is still borked unfortunately 🙁

An al?, nae worries but unfortunately with regard to your post last night i do know what i’m talking bout when it comes to anything related to mechanical engineering principles – been doing stuff to chunks of metal wi hammers for over 24 years – even got the qualifications n’ everyfink!. 😀

So?…..my plan of action?…….. what do the STW massiv advise me to do now?.

So?…..my plan of action?…….. what do the STW massiv advise me to do now?.

A), of course.

…and take pics/vids.

Yeah, A is my also preferred option for various reasons, i’ve got time on my hands at the minute to list them as i’m not out riding for obvious reasons as noted above so i’ll sit here and type wi one finger as i munch crusty bread dipped in delicious olive oil.

{Personal abuse removed – mod}

Hey ho, don’t care anymore – i’ve got my frame and it’s going nowhere, esepecially to Merlin, i’m also drunk on very nice olive oil….or if i’m honest that’s more likely to be the last few glasses of vouvray wine i’ve arsed.

😀

Like you, I would expect the frame to be perfect, but I get any frame reamed and faced on all points before building, they are never perfect. Generally everything is (more or less) straight before welding, then it warps a teensy bit.
In a perfect world all shops would prep frames before despatch, many do. Even then, take it to a trusted LBS and get it done, few quid for peace of mind and smooth building is a good investment.

Personally I wouldn’t worry so much about receiving the frame unprepped. It’s a ballache but one of those things always have to be done. Enjoy the olive oil and forget about Merlin 🙂

Ahh so I was right 2nd time around. Hope yer well and healed up all good. Haven’t seen you around here for years. Or maybe you’ve been around,but more of a lurker. Its weird as only last week I looked at the Pace propped up on its back wheel in the corner of the shed and thought of the time you borrowed it. Spooky.

I can see your point after buying what is known as one of the best Ti hardtails out there. First time around Merlin sorted you out good and proper with a no quibble refund but I can’t comment on anything else as phone convo’s are something that are,well.. just not in writing.

You spent a lot of cash and unlike a cheap frame,you would expect to not have to do anything to it as far as prep goes other than grease etc. It would be nice if things were that simple but quite often the best of stuff needs another tweak before it gets to the customer.. this is usually the bike shop/bike builder.

A lot of the Titus ti frames had no chamfer on the inside of the headtube. At this level it was quite often a King headset that was going in there and if you know what the King headset is manufactured like at the point where the un-chamfered edge of the headtube would meet.. you can see that the cups are rounded. Its a tiny amount but it basically means that if the headtube was never chamfered,there’s going to be daylight showing when fully pressed in.

Yes,the boss could have sent the frames back to Arizona but it would have been a big,costly job. It’s something you would expect to be able to send out to other retailers or customers as a product you would have no problems with but I do remember spending time chamfering Ti headtubes as some customers wanted a King headset fitted in there so my way of going about it was to get it right there and then before posting,to save on the hassle of posting things back and forth,not to mention the aggro it causes. The last thing I wanted were customers who just spent £2000 on a frame along with what was known as ‘the best headset in the world’ to have enough room to house a colony of mites between the cup and headtube thrown in.

I’m not sure which of the well known frame manufacturers are known to miss out on these small details but to save the customers,retailers and distributors that buy them into the country a hell of a lot of hassle.. maybe they need to have a few extra folk (or just the one beady eyed ‘ker!) on quality control to nip these things in the bud at the factory to save these problems between distributors/retailers/customers.

I’m not pointing the finger here, it’s any company that fails to finish a product off to the point where it’s possible to build without further facing and reaming. It ends up causing grief between the customer and the retailer when at this level and cost,it should be the exact opposite. It’s to be expected with frames around £200 quid but not with frames at these prices.

Couldn’t your old man sort it for you?

If he has access to lathes / mills etc. It shouldn’t be too difficult. It wouldn’t take long to knock up a D-Bit to ream and face the headtube (or just use a boring head) and the brake bosses could be faced in a mill, a couple of hours at the most.