Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 96 total)
  • What's the difference between socialism and fascism?
  • SurroundedByZulus
    Free Member

    They would when taken at face value appear to be the polar opposite of each other, but when you think about it a bit more are they not just the same thing?

    crikey
    Free Member

    You are wasted as a physio really, aren’t you?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    but when you think about it a bit more are they not just the same thing?

    Try not to think about it then.

    neilthewheel
    Full Member

    Think of politics as a circle, not a spectrum.
    But I disagree with your comparison – communism maybe, socialism nah

    SurroundedByZulus
    Free Member

    I spend a lot of time on the bus. I was reading something about the Nazi party and something about Communist Russia and that’s the question that came out of it.

    Of particular interest was the expanded name of the Nazi Party – National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I spend a lot of time on the bus.

    That explains a lot.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    There strongest similarity is the authoritarian forms which they are most popularly known for, ideologically they are far apart.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    You are wasted as a physio really, aren’t you?

    They are not mutually exclusive. Fascism is about ruling by force, and socialism is about public ownership. Quite possible to be both I reckon.

    loum
    Free Member

    Fascism has traditionally been supported by the middle classes, socialism by the working classes.

    Perhaps the most obvious example:

    An opportunist to his bones, Mussolini early mastered the direction of the winds and learned quickly to turn full sail into them.

    From Socialist to Fascist
    This much-envied talent led Mussolini to desert the Socialist party in 1914 and to cross over to the enemy camp, the Italian bourgeoisie. He rightly understood that World War I would bury the old Europe. Upheaval would follow its wake. He determined to prepare for “the unknown.” In late 1914 he founded an independent newspaper, Popolo d’Italia, and backed it up with his own independent movement (Autonomous Fascists). He drew close to the new forces in Italian politics, the radicalized middle-class youth, and made himself their national spokesman.

    Mussolini developed a new program, substituting nationalism for internationalism, militarism for antimilitarism, and the aggressive restoration of the bourgeois state instead of its revolutionary destruction. He had thus completely reversed himself. The Italian working classes called him “Judas” and “traitor.” Drafted into the trenches in 1915, Mussolini was wounded during training exercises in 1917, but he managed to return to active politics that same year. His newspaper, which he now reinforced with a second political movement (Revolutionary Fascists), was his main card; his talents and his reputation guaranteed him a hand in the game.

    Besides totalitarianism, a key distinguishing feature of fascism is that it uses a rightist mass movement to attack the organizations of the working class: parties of the left and trade unions. This strategy is variously called Corporatism, Corporativism, or the Corporative State [2], all terms that refer to state action to partner with key business leaders, often in ways chosen to minimize the power of labor unions. Mussolini, for example, capitalized on fear of an imminent Socialist revolution [3], finding ways to unite Labor and Capital, to Labor’s ultimate detriment. In 1926 he created the National Council of Corporations, divided into guilds of employers and employees, tasked with managing 22 sectors of the economy. The guilds subsumed both labor unions and management, but were heavily weighted in favor of the corporations and their owners. The moneyed classes in return helped him change the country’s laws to raise his stature from a coalition leader to a supreme commander. The movement was supported by small capitalists, low-level bureaucrats, and the middle classes, who had all felt threatened by the rise in power of the Socialists.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Hilariously obvious troll is obvious. But not hilarious.

    nick1962
    Free Member

    SBZ

    Stick to the Metro next time and send in some texts about hot bus drivers and passengers like everyone else seems to do

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    They would when taken at face value appear to be the polar opposite of each other

    yes they would

    , but when you think about it a bit more are they not just the same thing?

    no they are not

    seahouse
    Free Member

    You should read George Orwell’s Animal Farm

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    is that the one where they kill piggy and feed him to the jesus lion ?

    yunki
    Free Member

    number of legs..

    EDIT: damn… beaten to it by seahouse

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Surrounded By Zulus – Member
    What’s the difference between socialism and fascism?

    Fascists tend to have by far the campest uniforms:

    I spend a lot of time on the bus. I was reading something about the Nazi party and something about Communist Russia and that’s the question that came out of it.

    Of particular interest was the expanded name of the Nazi Party – National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

    Well, Communist Russia wasn’t really communist and the Nazi party wasn’t in any way socialist.

    mudshark
    Free Member

    Communism = queues

    kimbers
    Full Member

    its all about the moustache

    stalin vs hitlers

    the implications for tom selek are obvious

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    Fascists tend to have by far the campest uniforms

    Also, I’ve always thought the extent of totalitarianism in a state can be gauged by the silly march/salute coefficient of their army

    the implications for tom selek are obvious

    OMG! Magnum was bumming the posh fella with the dobermans all along ??!!
    Was the Ferrari a nod to Mussolini ?

    B.A.Nana
    Free Member

    Also, don’t confuse Nazism and Fascism, different as well. Nazism focused on race as the base point, fascism focused on the state/country. Fundamentally different and yet very similar/identical in so many other respects.

    yunki
    Free Member

    I’ve always thought the extent of totalitarianism in a state can be gauged by the silly march/salute coefficient of their army

    how do you account for the Greeks..?

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    they have an army ??

    nick1962
    Free Member

    scaredypants – Member

    they have an army ?
    Kind of

    IanW
    Free Member

    The answers are easy once you forget your dogma, always have been.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Kind of

    Most “definitely” for the Greeks which lived through the period when the army overthrew the elected government and installed themselves as a despised fascist dictatorship which was fully supported by the United States, and which the US insisted remained a NATO member.

    GlitterGary
    Free Member

    We’ve never had true socialism in a country before, so the answer is: NO.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Kind of

    The 1st Battalion Vivienne Westwood foot and mouth.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Fascism stems from fear and hatred of the other, is nationalist, often traditionalist and religious in character.

    With Socialism everyone exists in a state of cuddly warm ethical nirvana. That sounds nice. I’m going to be a socialist.

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member



    “Rokeach”
    Socialists (socialism) – Freedom ranked 1st, Equality ranked 2nd
    Hitler (nazism) – Freedom ranked 16th, Equality ranked 17th
    Goldwater (capitalism) – Freedom ranked 1st, Equality ranked 16th
    Lenin (communism) – Freedom ranked 17th, Equality ranked 1st

    mogrim
    Full Member

    We’ve never had true socialism in a country before, so the answer is: NO

    You could change “socialism” in that phrase for pretty much any political ideology, though.

    From what I’ve read a lot of what we consider fascist states (the Nazis, Mussolini, Franco etc.) had a lot in common with what is considered a socialist economy: large capital and labour intensive projects, state control or interference of strategic industries, etc. At the same time, however, they allow private industry (often in close cooperation with the government) to own and run these projects. Basically the worst of all worlds: no freedom, inefficient state run industries, and state-sponsored inequality.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    “Rokeach”
    Socialists (socialism) – Freedom ranked 1st, Equality ranked 2nd
    Hitler (nazism) – Freedom ranked 16th, Equality ranked 17th
    Goldwater (capitalism) – Freedom ranked 1st, Equality ranked 16th
    Lenin (communism) – Freedom ranked 17th, Equality ranked 1st

    Not convinced that Socialism should have “Freedom” ranked that highly – not being able to guarantee the continued private ownership of property doesn’t sound “free” to me, however much it may benefit the majority.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Nazism had a very very strong strain of anti-capitalism in it from it’s earliest days. Read up on Gregor Strasser..

    Getting worked up about mass movement 20th century labels in 2012 is a bit pointless. Theres authoritarianism/totalitarianism on one side and humanity on the other. Orwell was a socialist/anarchist at various stages of his life yet I’m in his gang.

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    Dredging up some stuff from my History classes at school there is actually very little practical difference between the two systems. One difference that I do remember is that fascisim is nationalistic and looks to improve things only within that coutnries own borders whereas communisim is more international an looks to spread it’s doctrine throughout the world.

    Bear in mind that I am only talking about the systems in theory, not their practical applications.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Orwell was a socialist/anarchist at various stages of his life yet I’m in his gang.

    eh I dont think he would agree with many of your political views are you sure you have read his stuff about social injustice and democratic socialist…is this really how you view yourself?

    not being able to guarantee the continued private ownership of property doesn’t sound “free” to me

    yes the wealthy rich and powerful should be free to deprive others of things

    mogrim
    Full Member

    yes the wealthy rich and powerful should be free to deprive others of things

    Were it only the “wealthy rich and powerful” you might have a point, but socialism in its more extreme forms would also extend to the local corner shop and stifle all private initiative.

    rkk01
    Free Member

    fascist states … snip… large capital and labour intensive projects, state control or interference of strategic industries, etc. At the same time, however, they allow private industry (often in close cooperation with the government) to own and run these projects. Basically the worst of all worlds: no freedom, inefficient state run industries, and state-sponsored inequality

    Appologies for the selective editing – but doesn’t this sound familiar???

    I think we called it “privatisation”…

    … result was handing over formerly state run monopolies to unaccountable big business with close links to the ruling party / class 🙄

    ETA unfortunate missing o to unaccountable 😳

    loum
    Free Member

    rkk01, are you talking about “The Big Society”?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    so what you are saying is that even between those who own stuff/ have deprived others of things it is not even evenly spread FAIRLY between them [ corner shop v big business…still sounding unfair to me

    konabunny
    Free Member

    The ownership of the means of production.

    Communist Russia wasn’t really communist

    “Get out of jail free” card.

    Fascism has traditionally been supported by the middle classes, socialism by the working classes.

    An explanation which has an odd blind spot for the class origins of the revolutionary vanguard.

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